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Tune Of The Month, May 2013: Parson's Farewell


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#37 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 01:41 AM

It is good to have David Barnert explaining what I have done in places ( thanks David).. it is more than I could do because I'm not sure what I am doing at any specific point... I 'm just letting my fingers do the talking. There were some errors in the Gminor that were more than unitentional, but this was the only 'take' in 43 attempts that did not end in disaster and the recording of some rude words.

I guess my main aim here is to demonstrate that although it might appear to be quite difficult, on the EC, to play the melody and add chords especially if one thinks " ah here I need a G9 diminished... hmmm how am I going to get that?" which would be a process so stifling that it would make onward progress very tedious, I take the simpler view of adding what I can, what comes to hand and if I don't like the result I try something else.

I call this 'Stride' playing, because one or two fingers will be striding in the opposite direction to the melody, sometimes to the far reaches of the keyboard. A finger that has been playing a melody note might have to jump back across four or five buttons and change rows at the same time to make a harmony note before jumping back again to play its next melody note.

With practice an intuitive sense of the keyboard imprints iself, I hope. I have learned a lot this weekend and I did manage Fm and C#m last night but as they need yet another patern configuration ....Ahgggggg!

ps; nice tune and a new one on me.. I voted for the Hornpipe. ;)


Edited by Geoff Wooff, 06 May 2013 - 01:54 AM.


#38 blue eyed sailor

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:34 AM

I think what he means is that the dominant chord (A in D minor) can have a minor 3rd (C natural) or a major 3rd (C sharp) and the various examples in Geoff's recording exhibit some of each. Listen to the D major chords in the 4th and 5th measures of the B section of the G minor example. You don't hear anything like that in some of the other versions, where the harmony is either a minor dominant chord or a VII chord (where, of course, the root is the minor 3rd of the dominant).

 

You got me right. Might be added that in a minor tune (like this) the VII (major) chord (because its root is the minor 3rd of the dominant, as you mention) shares its three notes with the dominant minor (minor) seventh chord (just omitting its root).

 

Both chords thus give quite a similar "feel" and might replace one another in many situations. Playing the melodeon as well I seem to recall faking the g-minor chord (on the left side) by playing the low "g" note to then add the e-minor chord (just preferring the unproper seventh chord to having no g-minor at all).



#39 David Barnert

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:13 AM

OK, here's mine (after a little more woodshedding than I expected I'd need):

 

https://soundcloud.c...arewell-barnert



#40 blue eyed sailor

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:19 AM

after a little more woodshedding than I expected I'd need

 

:)  :)

 

Besides, nice version (and thus worth the effort...)



#41 Jim Besser

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:37 AM

So I had a go at this tune in Em on the C/G. A different feel than Dm! This time played on a Morse hybrid. I found it easier to play in Em and easier to punch up, but not as interesting.


Edited by Jim Besser, 06 May 2013 - 09:38 AM.


#42 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:38 AM

OK, here's mine (after a little more woodshedding than I expected I'd need):

 

https://soundcloud.c...arewell-barnert

Very nice David..... sounds like the  correct rhythm for that partucular Playford dance as Chris' suggested video..  Mine was more like  "Dance de l'Ours" or a Bourée deux temps as we are more a customed to playing.



#43 Ransom

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:47 AM

OK, here's mine (after a little more woodshedding than I expected I'd need):
 
https://soundcloud.c...arewell-barnert


I love how you got the echo at the top of the B part to rise. We had heard a couple of falling ones, and I was looking for a nice rising one. =)

#44 David Barnert

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 10:40 AM

Very nice David..... sounds like the  correct rhythm for that partucular Playford dance as Chris' suggested video..

 

I love how you got the echo at the top of the B part to rise. We had heard a couple of falling ones, and I was looking for a nice rising one. =)

Thank you both. As I said elsewhere, I learned most of these tunes on the dance floor over decades. The rhythms are hard-wired in by now. As for the rising echo figure, I'm sure I must have heard it from Marshall Barron or someone else who was playing back then.



#45 Łukasz Martynowicz

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 02:21 PM

This is my first month on TOTM, but as a self-learnig player I already find this form of sharing different renditions of the same tune to be a great way to learn music. I'm especially glad to hear David's version (It's great BTW :)) - as his and mine (posted earlier) are both on Haydens and I can do more straightforward comparison and I have better understanding of what is going on "under the hood" (and because there is a very limited number of Hayden performances on youtube and soundcloud...)

 

This bears a question to you, as most of you here are far more advanced players: do you also get more knowlege from players of same kind of concertina? Personally, while enjoying anglo renditions, I usually can't learn anything from them as a Hayden player, because of fundamental differences between those instruments. It is a little bit better with EC, but still they are different enough (especially on chords/accompaniment, which from what I know is a lot harder to do on EC), that the overlap of useful techniques is limited...

 

Łukasz



#46 Jim Besser

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:09 PM

 

 

This bears a question to you, as most of you here are far more advanced players: do you also get more knowlege from players of same kind of concertina? Personally, while enjoying anglo renditions, I usually can't learn anything from them as a Hayden player, because of fundamental differences between those instruments. It is a little bit better with EC, but still they are different enough (especially on chords/accompaniment, which from what I know is a lot harder to do on EC), that the overlap of useful techniques is limited...

 

Łukasz

 

 

As an Anglo player, I learn a lot from listening to good English and duet players. I can't always adapt what I hear to the more limited Anglo - but often how I play a tune changes because of what I hear players of other systems doing.

 

It's not just the instrument; it's the creativity applied to a tune. I can't imagine one could hear Jody Kruskal's Anglo version of a tune and not come away with some new ideas.

 

jb



#47 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:16 PM

Lukasz,

I think it is possible to learn something from everyone's playing, though perhaps not from a technical  standpoint then at least from a musical one. I thought  your version was very good and, as with David's,  I wondered how many different keys you would be comfortable to play the tune in on your Hayden keyboard ?

 

I am also Learning to play the Maccann and find that my approach to playing the tune on a Duet is very different. With two independant keyboards the idea of playing the melody on one and chords or second melody on the other   appears to be a direct approach.. on the EC, I think, it is better to blend harmony by playing a second voice along with the melody whilst finnishing off the suggestion of chords by adding another note that does not move with the melody but 'bows' over the one or two voice melody or emphasizes the rhythm.



#48 Łukasz Martynowicz

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:18 PM

Of course it's not just the instrument :) Of course I get ideas from other people play - but it's on "how the melody can be played" and not "how things can be done on my kind of instrument". For me there is a big gap in my mind between understanding what I hear (or to be more precise: what I can visualise, what is played and how it's played) when I hear a Hayden and when I hear any other system that I'm not familiar with. Maybe that's because I'm biased by "geometric" approach of isomorphic keyboards. [it's sometimes difficult for me to write everythin clear, as english is not my native language...]



#49 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 03:53 PM

I agree that there is very little Hayden playing on Youtube but there is even less Maccann  examples. Some people suggest that learning to play should consist of listening (70%) and practicing (30%).... well that is great if there is enough material to listen to.

 

I now take the view that I will do anything that is possible that comes into my mind to try and try some things that are supposed to be impossible. :)



#50 Łukasz Martynowicz

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 04:23 PM

Geoff,

you've nailed it - my question was more about the technical standpoint. When I first started learning Hayden layout (it was on 64 buttons DIY MIDI concertina at that time) it was completely "blind" learning: anything what I could learn from YouTube concertina and accordion videos. And at that time I found myself trying to sound like people on EC, with harmonies added to melody - partly because I couldn't play different things with both my hand simultanously, but partly because I didn't know what is possible [I was almost a total beginner at that time, both on playing and music theory]. 

 

Answering your question: in four keys, Am, Dm, Gm, Bm as those are only keys that fit on Elise keyboard.. With Bm I have to use different fingers (but on the same pattern). As some others have said in other topics on this forum, changing keys on Hayden when playing solo makes little sense, as the fingering won't change a bit or fall apart completely for keys on the edges of the keyboard (I have tried different patterns on my MIDI concertina, which has same keyboard layout as Wakker H-2, and while every chord is possible, those that "wrap around" the keyboard are difficult to incorporate into playable arrangement). 



#51 David Barnert

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Posted 06 May 2013 - 09:51 PM

This bears a question to you, as most of you here are far more advanced players: do you also get more knowlege from players of same kind of concertina? Personally, while enjoying anglo renditions, I usually can't learn anything from them as a Hayden player, because of fundamental differences between those instruments. It is a little bit better with EC, but still they are different enough (especially on chords/accompaniment, which from what I know is a lot harder to do on EC), that the overlap of useful techniques is limited...

I have not patterned my playing on any other Hayden player. When I play for Morris Dancing, I am influenced by the sound of the melodeon (2-row diatonic button accordion). When I play for Contra Dancing, I am more influenced by fiddles. I have often found other concertina players (Hayden or otherwise) inspiring, but rarely do I feel the need to imitate the sound in my playing.

 

When I started playing musical instruments (I started on the cello at age 10) it was made clear to me that I should take as my inspiration the sound of the human voice singing. Let the length of phrases be guided by the amount of music that can reasonably be sung in one breath. Let the shape of phrases be guided by principles of rhetoric.

 

A special case involving Irish Traditional Music is that a major influence on the sound is the bagpipe.

 

Take the lessons in this recent post to heart. Spend a lot of time dancing and paying attention to the music, on whatever instrument. Learn to intuit what works and what doesn't in terms of getting a dancer to want to move. Play with others (preferably not concertinas, but fiddles, flutes, etc) and bounce ideas off each other.



#52 blue eyed sailor

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 01:00 AM

When I play for Morris Dancing, I am influenced by the sound of the melodeon (2-row diatonic button accordion). When I play for Contra Dancing, I am more influenced by fiddles. I have often found other concertina players (Hayden or otherwise) inspiring, but rarely do I feel the need to imitate the sound in my playing.

 

When I started playing musical instruments (I started on the cello at age 10) it was made clear to me that I should take as my inspiration the sound of the human voice singing. Let the length of phrases be guided by the amount of music that can reasonably be sung in one breath. Let the shape of phrases be guided by principles of rhetoric.

 

A special case involving Irish Traditional Music is that a major influence on the sound is the bagpipe.

 

A well-balanced post IMO. Fiddle, Melodeon, Bagpipes - those three do it for me too (among other instruments such as reed organ a.s.f.)..

 

Moreover, my preference of the fiddle has led me to choose the EC (over Anglo or Duet) which I felt would quite naturally be capable to act like one - and it did answer my expectations in fact. Since the EC has originally been meant to replace the violin in a perhaps more "classical" way (as a "Lady's instrument" for parlour use) works very fine in contexts of folk music as well.

 

Any kind of concertina is capable of lots of styles - but maybe you'll find just the one that will act as kind of a guiding star. In common with David I would by all means look out beyond just my own instrument.

 

Best wishes - Wolf



#53 Łukasz Martynowicz

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Posted 07 May 2013 - 05:35 AM

Thank you both for advices: some of them I already use, some are new to me. The one about voice singing is most true for me, as I started my musical journey by singing sea shanties a'capella. It'll be hard for me to learn from dances though, as I have two left legs :)

 

As I favour gypsy and balkan folk over Irish or English and I play a lot of modern polish rock, my musical choices are a bit different from most concertina players and so are the instruments that I learn from: accordion and piano, brass section, clarinet and glockenspiel. I find guitar most frustrating to "convert" to concertina... but the brass section sounds absolutely brilliant played on concertina - especially played in octaves.

 

My initial question was focused on technical part mostly because of what I wrote above: because of my musical choices I had to analize and arrange most music that I play, which was a great lesson on theory of music and understanding what I'm doing.. What I miss is the opportunity to exchange practical knowlege on concertina as there are maybe five (!) concertina players in Poland... We also do not have a large folk playing tradition - this is what I'm most jealous about with all English and Irish players here - that you can simply take your concertina and go to a pub for a trad session. This is why this TOTM idea is such a great thing to me.

 

Again, thank you for your comments, it is great to peek inside other musicians views.



#54 bellowbelle

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Posted 11 May 2013 - 01:01 PM

Will try to add my version of this month's tune, soon!  Never meant to miss the last one....

 

I think I'll include my foot bass, too.  






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