Jump to content


Photo

Are English Concertina buttons supposed to be loose


  • Please log in to reply
66 replies to this topic

#37 Steve Mansfield

Steve Mansfield

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 607 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Whaley Bridge, Derbyshire

Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:57 AM

There's a fair bit of dirty laundry getting washed in public here, anyone would think this was Mudcat :) Troy, have you been in touch with castiglione Accordions? what did they say about the warranty and the wobbly buttons?

#38 Dirge

Dirge

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2540 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Napier, New Zealand

Posted 28 December 2012 - 04:09 AM

There's a fair bit of dirty laundry getting washed in public here, anyone would think this was Mudcat :) Troy, have you been in touch with castiglione Accordions? what did they say about the warranty and the wobbly buttons?


Oh you can't compare that with Mudcat. ("Mud by name, mud by nature" in my limited experience, which is whenever someone says 'Have you seen what they are saying on Mudcat!') People got surprisingly heated, I agree, but they're already apologising...

#39 Geoff Wooff

Geoff Wooff

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:50 AM

Whilst doing my Christmas shopping and pondering what would make a good present for my wife, I wandered into a music shop that specialises in the Violin family. As my wife plays the Violin and we had often talked of how nice it would be to try the Cello, I started plucking at several of these in a display area. The shop owner arrived at my side with the usual " can I help you sir"?.... yes indeed, what is the price range of your stock... what price for a beginner (Student) model ?

We all do this at times.. I was tempted at 300.... does that include a Bow and Case ? etc etc. I know very little about Cellos.. so I said I would think about it... and moved on down the street reflecting that a half decent Cello must surely cost more than that and more knowledge was needed before a purchase.

#40 Steve Mansfield

Steve Mansfield

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 607 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Whaley Bridge, Derbyshire

Posted 28 December 2012 - 08:33 AM

Whilst doing my Christmas shopping and pondering what would make a good present for my wife, I wandered into a music shop that specialises in the Violin family. As my wife plays the Violin and we had often talked of how nice it would be to try the Cello, I started plucking at several of these in a display area. The shop owner arrived at my side with the usual " can I help you sir"?.... yes indeed, what is the price range of your stock... what price for a beginner (Student) model ?

We all do this at times.. I was tempted at 300.... does that include a Bow and Case ? etc etc. I know very little about Cellos.. so I said I would think about it... and moved on down the street reflecting that a half decent Cello must surely cost more than that and more knowledge was needed before a purchase.


Whereas a Jackie EC is currently listed at $395 on the Concertina Connection website, so the price differential isn't that great.

Whilst I knew, as soon as I played a friend's Wheatstone, that the days were numbered for the Jackie I bought and started learning to play EC on - I really don't think I would ever have started playing the instrument if I'd had to put down over 1000 on a first purchase to see if the EC and I were going to get on (regardless of the undeniable resale value), whereas the 300 I put down on the Jackie was an acceptable outlay.

But if I'd paid my 300 and got a Jackie where the buttons wobbled that much, I think I'd have suspected that something wasn't right ....

#41 Richard Evans

Richard Evans

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 27 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Australia

Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:08 PM

Dear Troy,
I'm afraid that you get what you pay for and if the worst thing is the wobbly buttons then you have not done too badly. The buttons can be bushed but in my experience some repairers especially accordion repairers don't have the necessary skills. Yes the button holes need to be enlarged and this is not for the faint hearted, opening up an existing hole in plywood is fraught with difficulty unless you know what you are doing and frankly most accordion repairers would have never tackled anything like this. It's a pity I live on the other side of the world or I could sort it out for you although currently I have a backlog of "Real" concertinas to deal with. I am in favour of people buying any sort of concertina though as concertinas figure prominently in my life. Just stick in there and go for it and when you want a better concertina just save up some more Canadian dollars take advice from those on Concertina.net and buy a good second hand one by one of the proper makers, believe me they will knock the spots off a Stagi. If you are going to invest your valuable time in learning and playing the concertina it is worth having a good one! Oh and believe what Geoff Wooff says, he is an expert.

Richard Evans (Australia's Concertina Doctor) and the maker of Kookaburra Anglo Concertinas.

#42 Troy

Troy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manitoba, Canada

Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:35 PM

Troy, have you been in touch with castiglione Accordions? what did they say about the warranty and the wobbly buttons?


I've emailed John Castiglione last night about the wobbly buttons, and even included a link to my Youtube for him to check out for himself. I still have not received any response from him so far. I have also searched my place for the warranty papers, and all I could find is the invoice that came with the concertina and the custom papers that are usually stuck outside the shipping box.

I pulled out the concertina last night, and noticed a few other things (which I included in my email to Castiglione Accordions):
1) I found a couple of notes/reeds that is slow to respond in the middle range of the concertina
2) When pressed, the buttons sink all the way down such that their tops sit flush with the end plate surface (is this how they're supposed to be?)

In the meantime, I am getting antsy about getting it fixed. My thoughts are: should I just bite the bullet and get it fixed by a local accordion repairman (and void the warranty, if there is one)? It pains me to think how stupid I have been and how I may have been screwed twice over unwittingly. Maybe it'll go away if I send the concertina away for fixing. You know: out of sight, out of mind?

Troy

#43 Greg Jowaisas

Greg Jowaisas

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1519 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Kentucky, USA just south of Cincinnati and the Ohio River

Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:52 PM

Troy,
I'd definitely try for a return and refund. If I have read things right you've already spent more than $1600. which would get you a fairly nice reconditioned vintage instrument with none of the problems you are experiencing.

Hang in there! We all pay an admission to get our learning curves up regardless of the endeavor. Resillency is much of what life is about.
Bounce back and pursue your concertina dreams. May the future ones be sweet.

Greg

#44 Mike Franch

Mike Franch

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 464 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltimore Md. USA

Posted 28 December 2012 - 12:54 PM

In the meantime, I am getting antsy about getting it fixed. My thoughts are: should I just bite the bullet and get it fixed by a local accordion repairman (and void the warranty, if there is one)? It pains me to think how stupid I have been and how I may have been screwed twice over unwittingly. Maybe it'll go away if I send the concertina away for fixing. You know: out of sight, out of mind?


It sounds like you've taken the right step (contacting the vendor) and you'll see where it goes from there. Maybe he will make things right and all will be well. If you can get things up and running well, you'll be happy with it and enjoy it. If you "outgrow" it, that's well and good, too.

I don't think you've been stupid. You're new to this and you behaved rationally within the limits of your knowledge. That's what we all do, at our best. Some of us, less new, have done the same thing, sometimes to a less desirable end than we had hoped.

This might turn out to be an unlucky purchase, or it might not. The main thing is not to be put off in your pursuit of concertina playing and enjoyment.

Mike

P.S. It might not hurt for the vendor to know that you've sought advice on concertina.net. However it works out, please let the community know.

#45 Troy

Troy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manitoba, Canada

Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:00 PM

I'm afraid that you get what you pay for and if the worst thing is the wobbly buttons then you have not done too badly.


For the price I paid for this Stagi, I could've bought two solid-wood reed organs/harmoniums or a Leslie speaker for my Hammond organ (Maybe not Leslie's because they are priced around $2500).

The buttons can be bushed but in my experience some repairers especially accordion repairers don't have the necessary skills. Yes the button holes need to be enlarged and this is not for the faint hearted, opening up an existing hole in plywood is fraught with difficulty unless you know what you are doing and frankly most accordion repairers would have never tackled anything like this.


The end plates on this 56-key Stagi looks and feels like some kind of thick plastic to me. Now I couldn't even use this concertina as kindle - it's going to smother me in thick black smoke!

#46 Troy

Troy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manitoba, Canada

Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:04 PM

I'd definitely try for a return and refund. If I have read things right you've already spent more than $1600. which would get you a fairly nice reconditioned vintage instrument with none of the problems you are experiencing.


The Stagi concertina has so far cost me $1360: The $1200 price of the concertina and $160 in custom duties/taxes. The $300 I have not spent yet - this would be my budget to get a repairman to put bushings around the buttons and maybe correct the action or some of the reeds.

Troy

Edited by Troy, 28 December 2012 - 01:05 PM.


#47 blue eyed sailor

blue eyed sailor

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2549 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltic coast, Schleswig-Holstein

Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:11 PM

When pressed, the buttons sink all the way down such that their tops sit flush with the end plate surface (is this how they're supposed to be?)

Yes, I think it is! Stagi-Mechanics. You might even push any button through "its" hole and lose it completely... Nothing to get fixed without changing the action in general, I'd guess...

I stumbled over "Castiglione" in early 2011 (which means that they're already in business for some time), shortly before I finally got my 48k Lachenal EC, which fits my needs terrifically.

You may well get an at least decent vintage EC for your money, if only you dismiss the additional 8k...

Whatever your decision may be, good luck with your prospective EC - they are wonderful instruments!

#48 Troy

Troy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manitoba, Canada

Posted 28 December 2012 - 01:15 PM

It sounds like you've taken the right step (contacting the vendor) and you'll see where it goes from there. Maybe he will make things right and all will be well. If you can get things up and running well, you'll be happy with it and enjoy it. If you "outgrow" it, that's well and good, too.

I don't think you've been stupid. You're new to this and you behaved rationally within the limits of your knowledge. That's what we all do, at our best. Some of us, less new, have done the same thing, sometimes to a less desirable end than we had hoped.

This might turn out to be an unlucky purchase, or it might not. The main thing is not to be put off in your pursuit of concertina playing and enjoyment.

Mike

P.S. It might not hurt for the vendor to know that you've sought advice on concertina.net. However it works out, please let the community know.


I did mention in my email to the vendor that I've asked for advise from concertina.net. Hopefully, he will help me fix this problem. If not, my 7-year-old nephew will have an especially expensive gift two years from now.

Troy

#49 Geoff Wooff

Geoff Wooff

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 28 December 2012 - 02:22 PM

The buttons sinking in flush with the ends is definately not a good feature, although it might be typical of Stagis, and perhaps one would get used to it. I have one EC that I have tried to wring the most out of in terms of dynamic capability. This involved getting its buttons to elevate the pads as high as possible and thus the buttons nearly come level with the ends. Nearly, but not quite.. I have a millimetre of 'feel' left at the bottom of the stroke.... this is disconcerting at times but the advantages sound wise are worth it.
For those who would suggest I could raise the buttons by bending the levers... unfortunately the button guide pins are hanging out of their holes as it is ;) .

Edited by Geoff Wooff, 28 December 2012 - 02:23 PM.


#50 d.elliott

d.elliott

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 1205 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sheffield, South Yorkshire, England

Posted 28 December 2012 - 03:16 PM

Reaming the holes out would immediately void the warranty.


I remember a TV news report warning us Canadians about buying stuff willy-nilly from the USA, a few days before this past Black Friday. They said that some merchandise lose their warranty the moment they cross the US-Canada border. So my Stagi have probably lost its warranty already. I'm going to have to check the papers it came with when I get home tonight.

I just looked around the Castiglione Accordions website. There's nowhere there will you find their return and refund policy, but they do have a small statement there that they have an exchange policy. I also noticed that their Concertina page has been revamped - some Stagi concertina descriptions now have pictures of higher-end concertinas beside them instead of the actual Stagi concertinas being described. I smell something fishy about Castiglione Accordions' selling tactics...

Troy


Why don't you make contact with Frank Edgley, famous Canadian Concertina manufacturer and repairer based in Ontario, (519)948-9149 , e-mail edgley@concertinas.ca. He may be able to help or at least advise.

Dave




#51 JimLucas

JimLucas

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 10123 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Denmark

Posted 28 December 2012 - 05:45 PM

I've emailed John Castiglione last night about the wobbly buttons, and even included a link to my Youtube for him to check out for himself. I still have not received any response from him so far.

I wouldn't advise impatience quite yet.

From what you say, you've been waiting less than 24 hours for a response, and it is the Christmas-New Year's holiday week. I don't know about Castiglione, but many shopkeepers whose business doesn't explode during the Christmas season will take the entire week off. If that's the case here, then your email may not even be seen until late next week.

#52 Troy

Troy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manitoba, Canada

Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:28 PM

Why don't you make contact with Frank Edgley, famous Canadian Concertina manufacturer and repairer based in Ontario, (519)948-9149 , e-mail edgley@concertinas.ca. He may be able to help or at least advise.


Yes I've been meaning to do that. I guess, at the back of my mind, I've been secretly hoping that he was lurking around the forum, and reading this thread. But I will email him my Youtube clips and see what his opinion is: whether it is worth repairing or not.

Troy

#53 Troy

Troy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 37 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Manitoba, Canada

Posted 28 December 2012 - 11:33 PM

I've emailed John Castiglione last night about the wobbly buttons, and even included a link to my Youtube for him to check out for himself. I still have not received any response from him so far.

I wouldn't advise impatience quite yet.

From what you say, you've been waiting less than 24 hours for a response, and it is the Christmas-New Year's holiday week. I don't know about Castiglione, but many shopkeepers whose business doesn't explode during the Christmas season will take the entire week off. If that's the case here, then your email may not even be seen until late next week.


I agree. I'll bide my time until next week. But in the meantime, I'll try to get F. Edgley's and the local accordion repairman's opinion on whether this problem(s) can be fixed within a $300 budget or not. I still believe this concertina can still be salvaged.

Troy

Edited by Troy, 28 December 2012 - 11:35 PM.


#54 blue eyed sailor

blue eyed sailor

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2549 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Baltic coast, Schleswig-Holstein

Posted 29 December 2012 - 05:04 AM

I still believe this concertina can still be salvaged.

Surely it can! But you will have to ask yourself if the result will be worth that total amount of money in advance...

Edited by blue eyed sailor, 29 December 2012 - 06:24 AM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users