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Relative price for duets


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#73 Don Taylor

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 07:26 AM

it's a fascinating question as to whether it's a maccann phenom or wider....i note that there are nine vintage ECs in stock at Button Box just now. Nine.


Chris has just listed a 56 button Edeophone for 1,750 GBP, in the listing he says:

"I am starting this at a give-away price-many hundreds of pounds below its shop value as I just have too many Edeophones in stock."

#74 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 07 September 2012 - 11:26 AM

it's a fascinating question as to whether it's a maccann phenom or wider....i note that there are nine vintage ECs in stock at Button Box just now. Nine

Chris has just listed a 56 button Edeophone for 1,750 GBP, in the listing he says:

"I am starting this at a give-away price-many hundreds of pounds below its shop value as I just have too many Edeophones in stock."




It looks dramatic but perhaps Chris is just informing the wider public that he curently has plenty of stock... a "come and buy me" advertisement .
There were a great number of concertinas produced during its heyday and attrition rates cannot be ridiculously high for Grandads prized old squeezebox... so maybe there are far more of these things lurking in cupboards than there are current players of.

#75 ceemonster

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Posted 08 September 2012 - 01:43 AM

actually, CA has put very similar odd little notes into a number of EC listings of late--to the effect of, this is going at a really good price because i have so many. i have been wondering about those notes and i forgot to get into that one when mentioning the nine ECs at BB as some kind of sign of the times. i mean economic times--a combination produced by people needing to sell, and other people unable to buy or taking a new attitude of reluctance regarding price points. i'm hypothesizing here. and i'm fascinated as well.

Edited by ceemonster, 08 September 2012 - 01:45 AM.


#76 Ann-p

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 01:26 PM

I have seen Chris' concertina, I am a "newbie" and didn't realise that some Maccanns started on 'C'. I have a New Model 55 key, with all leather bellows. I have a bit of frustration trying to play tunes without going up an octave, (although I should be used to this as I play recorder, mainly soprano). I sing soprano, so wanted to be at the same pitch. I spent an entertaining couple of hours trying to work out if you could move the keys around on a cheap 46 key (might need a few extras) to get the same effect. Nothing came of that, I don't know how the fingering would work!

I did consider buying Chris's concertina, but can't really afford it. I also considered asking him for a part exchange, but I don't want to part with the New Model I have, partly because it was given to me by my father in law and it's a very nice instrument. He gave us 2 Maccanns, the other was a 46 key with brass reeds and rosewood ends which I tidied up and husband Brian repolished. We sold it on to finance the refurbishment and tuning of the better one by Andrew Norman.

For those interested the numbers are 789 for the 46 key and 805 for the 55 key. Father in law's first wife's mother(!!) was an accomplished piano player, so may have had these in succession.

I have looked at this topic on several occasions, so have totted up some of the 734 views!

#77 Dirge

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Posted 12 September 2012 - 03:30 PM

I have seen Chris' concertina, I am a "newbie" and didn't realise that some Maccanns started on 'C'. I have a New Model 55 key, with all leather bellows. I have a bit of frustration trying to play tunes without going up an octave, (although I should be used to this as I play recorder, mainly soprano). I sing soprano, so wanted to be at the same pitch. I spent an entertaining couple of hours trying to work out if you could move the keys around on a cheap 46 key (might need a few extras) to get the same effect. Nothing came of that, I don't know how the fingering would work!

I did consider buying Chris's concertina, but can't really afford it. I also considered asking him for a part exchange, but I don't want to part with the New Model I have, partly because it was given to me by my father in law and it's a very nice instrument. He gave us 2 Maccanns, the other was a 46 key with brass reeds and rosewood ends which I tidied up and husband Brian repolished. We sold it on to finance the refurbishment and tuning of the better one by Andrew Norman.

For those interested the numbers are 789 for the 46 key and 805 for the 55 key. Father in law's first wife's mother(!!) was an accomplished piano player, so may have had these in succession.

I have looked at this topic on several occasions, so have totted up some of the 734 views!

I'm sure CA would do a PX and you could come away with an instrument that was exactly what you wanted for a modest extra investment, but I understand the sentiment angle too (It hadn't occurred to me before that there were downsides to inheriting an instrument.) You don't think Father-In-Law would understand you trading for a similar but better instrument though? Wouldn't he just be pleased you were playing?

I added a brass reeded 46 to my bigger instruments last year as a portable 'rough' (well you know what I mean) instrument. (for walking and sailing and beach barbequeue type events) and I understand completely the point about having to lift the tune an octave higher than sounds best. It's a bit obvious I know, but sometimes you can drop an octave if you take the lowest couple of notes into the LH and thus avoid using the 'dog whistle' notes; or there's always transposing a fourth or fifth; that means adding or subtracting an extra accidental but may well solve the problem.

Now probably is a good time to buy another one if you are going to; pity we're all broke or sitting cautiously on our money, eh?

#78 Ivan Viehoff

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Posted 13 September 2012 - 09:44 AM

actually, CA has put very similar odd little notes into a number of EC listings of late--to the effect of, this is going at a really good price because i have so many. i have been wondering about those notes and i forgot to get into that one when mentioning the nine ECs at BB as some kind of sign of the times. i mean economic times--a combination produced by people needing to sell, and other people unable to buy or taking a new attitude of reluctance regarding price points. i'm hypothesizing here. and i'm fascinated as well.

The function of dealers is to connect buyers and sellers who would otherwise find it difficult to find each other, often because they are not buying and selling at the same time. So they gamble by buying stuff that they think they will eventually sell for a sufficient profit. So in normal mode a dealer would buy anything that that was going "cheap" in relation to what he was accustomed to be able to sell it for, on the assumption that a customer would come along eventually for something like the "usual price". His only constraint would be the amount of capital he has to lock up in stock, and what he thinks the overall volume of the market is. In a weakening market, a dealer will find his sales slowing, and also, he might have actually accelerated his purchases, because he kept on finding himself the only person willing to buy at a price he thought a bargain. Finding himself thus overstocked, if he is rich enough, or more accurately liquid enough, he can gamble it will all come round in time, hold on to the stock, and hope to make a lot more money than trying to sell now, if indeed the market turns in time for him to survive the reduced income in the mean time. Given the crash has been going on since 2007, he may have even tried the "hold on and wait" tactic for several years already. If you can't just sit there and wait for the market to recover, you have to turn your stock into cash at a reasonable speed at the price the market can endure. He may even be engaged in the process of trying to find out what that price now is.

#79 ceemonster

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:57 AM

my speculative musings on it are much in the vein of what you've outlined, IV. it is a market issue, not really about the dealer or the instruments. well, with any seller at a juncture such as the present, it is as you say....can/will they hold until things change? but another question just now is also, will things change even after times get better, or has the market dug in its heels as to these instruments at these price points regardless of the times....

Edited by ceemonster, 14 September 2012 - 02:00 AM.


#80 ceemonster

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 01:58 AM

hrrrmm, well, i see there is a Wakker Peacock listed in stock on the BB site....very interesting.

http://www.buttonbox...peacocknatb.JPG

#81 Ivan Viehoff

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Posted 14 September 2012 - 11:40 AM

but another question just now is also, will things change even after times get better, or has the market dug in its heels as to these instruments at these price points regardless of the times....

A general feature of financial crashes is reductions in asset prices. It isn't just houses, and stocks and shares, it tends to be just about everything, including concertinas. The exception, perhaps, is gold and government bonds of governments we believe won't default (the leading economies didn't default even in the Great Depression - UK, USA and a few other wealthy plaices haven't defaulted for at least 200 years), because this remains the final thing that people flee to mistrusting all other assets. It takes a long time for the other assets to recover their prices, and in the case of assets that went through a bubble, like housing, nothing like those peak prices may be seen again in our lifetime.

#82 felix castro

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Posted 17 September 2012 - 12:02 PM

According to a survey, that was made on this site last year,there are something like 70 players of the Maccann worldwide. That is, I suppose, players known to members of C.net. This is not a large pool of potential customers !

Another problem for the Duet players in general is the very sparse numbers of restorer/repairers who do play these systems. I feel it is one thing to set up a concertina in a generic manner, as a mechanical device, and quite another to set the instrument up for playing.
I find I almost always have to set up my instruments to suit me, even when they have been restored.


I have this problem for all my concertinas, I have sent it to my accordion repairer, Jose Mari López from Irun - Vasque Country for minor problems, but if I want really to overhaule them I should send them to U.K. I have now two duets one almost playable but not at 100% and the other one that needs to be overhauled and I don't know when and where send them really or play almost with the first one as it is, I have made several basic works in it, basic cleaning, but for good playing it should need more.

#83 felix castro

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Posted 18 September 2012 - 03:47 AM

...having a Maccann that starts at Middle C on the Right hand is very practical. I took this "buy a 57" advice and am pleased I did.

But an important aspect of this instrument that didn't sell is that although it's only 55 buttons, it does go down to middle C, though the "standard" 55-button Maccanns from Lachenal do not. So in practical terms, this appears to be a "57", just missing the highest F# and G in the right hand. (As it happens, this is exactly the range of a standard 55-button Crane duet.)

I'm surprised it didn't sell. Did potential buyers only look at the number of buttons and ignore Chris' statement about the range?




Indeed Jim,

Having seen, and tried, another like this just recently I am also surprised it did not sell. Although Wheatstone do not appear to have offered this particular layout as standard, Lachenal certainly did (in their catalogues) and so it is worth checking each 56 (55) that comes up for sale. The owner of the one I tried, who had bought his recently, contacted the vendor (an Antique shop) and got the proprietor to sound the buttons for verification.. smart fellow !



I wonder if the C wasn't so standard then (in the XIXth century) than nowadays.
I. e. the anglo concertina in C/G seems to be more useful for playing in middle G than in C, note reversals in both sides and diferent rows, etc.
When I bought the two duets (one 46 and another 55) I have I didn't notice about the useful of starts at Middle C on the Right hand, I thought more that beginning in G on the right hand and having to play in C usually on the right hand was similar to anglo.
Perhaps if I haven't the other ones I considered about buying it but by now I have my "bag" of duets full, I have to restore properly the other ones and play with them during a time for considering that I need a bigger or different duet (unless the price would be so so so low that I would consider it ;-)).

#84 felix castro

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Posted 30 October 2012 - 12:14 PM

...having a Maccann that starts at Middle C on the Right hand is very practical. I took this "buy a 57" advice and am pleased I did.

But an important aspect of this instrument that didn't sell is that although it's only 55 buttons, it does go down to middle C, though the "standard" 55-button Maccanns from Lachenal do not. So in practical terms, this appears to be a "57", just missing the highest F# and G in the right hand. (As it happens, this is exactly the range of a standard 55-button Crane duet.)

I'm surprised it didn't sell. Did potential buyers only look at the number of buttons and ignore Chris' statement about the range?




Indeed Jim,

Having seen, and tried, another like this just recently I am also surprised it did not sell. Although Wheatstone do not appear to have offered this particular layout as standard, Lachenal certainly did (in their catalogues) and so it is worth checking each 56 (55) that comes up for sale. The owner of the one I tried, who had bought his recently, contacted the vendor (an Antique shop) and got the proprietor to sound the buttons for verification.. smart fellow !



I wonder if the C wasn't so standard then (in the XIXth century) than nowadays.
I. e. the anglo concertina in C/G seems to be more useful for playing in middle G than in C, note reversals in both sides and diferent rows, etc.
When I bought the two duets (one 46 and another 55) I have I didn't notice about the useful of starts at Middle C on the Right hand, I thought more that beginning in G on the right hand and having to play in C usually on the right hand was similar to anglo.
Perhaps if I haven't the other ones I considered about buying it but by now I have my "bag" of duets full, I have to restore properly the other ones and play with them during a time for considering that I need a bigger or different duet (unless the price would be so so so low that I would consider it ;-)).



Finally four months after this post I bought yesterday the 55 key Lachenal maccann duet concertina from Chris Algar that appeared in ebay. I considered your advice and considering that i. e. the other 55 buttons Lachenal duet that I have bought form an auction it was cheaper than this one but I have to send it again to the U.K. for retuning, overhauling, etc. and pay more money for doing it, then it is a good price for me for a instrument from Chris Algar perfectly playable. I shall tell you when I receive it.
The other 55 key Lachenal with Chidley layout that I told that I bought in another post
http://www.concertin...=1
it doesn't have the middle C, it has the higher notes of the 67 key maccann chidley layaut design concertinas, then they can be almost complementary.
Félix Castro




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