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Relative price for duets


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#55 ceemonster

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 12:24 AM

Jeffries Duet: that one is probably worth its own thread. maybe on the "buy and sell" section or somewhere else. not because i'm casting any stones about digression, mind, but because folks with enough knowledge to address your question might miss it here... :rolleyes:

[What does CBA stand for ? And does it actually relate to duet concertinas? Mystified here]
i can only speak for my part, but CBA relates to duets for me in general and as well as relative to this thread because it is thanks to CBA that i have become interested in taking on a unisonoric concertina system. and in the course of playing compare-and-contrast between the different types, some of the puzzle pieces i have been moving around relate not only to the layouts, number of notes, etc, but also to....relative prices, among duets, and also in my case, between what you get in which duet versus what you get in CBA for the relative price...and relative price is the theme of this thread, at least nominally. i admit we have been drifting a tad and that i have been involved in that.... :rolleyes:

the whole appeal, nay, raison d'etre, of the duet, is supposed to be that it is a unisonoric designed for melody-on-the-right, and bass-on-the-left (i am oversimplifying bigtime there, but that is very roughly the gist). which is what cba does (so does PA, but we're talking buttons here)....and in looking at relative prices, one looks at what the various ones will do for the price, among other fascinating points.... :)

Edited by ceemonster, 29 August 2012 - 12:30 AM.


#56 Irene S.

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 06:03 AM

which is what cba does (so does PA, but we're talking buttons here)


Errmm ...I forgot to ask what PA stands for . I'm assuming accordion for the A, but what does the P represent? It's not a shorthand terminology I've ever come across before, as I don't have dealings in the outside free reed world . :huh:

#57 JimLucas

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 07:08 AM

Errmm ...I forgot to ask what PA stands for . I'm assuming accordion for the A, but what does the P represent?

PA = Piano Accordion



#58 Irene S.

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Posted 29 August 2012 - 11:47 AM

Errmm ...I forgot to ask what PA stands for . I'm assuming accordion for the A, but what does the P represent?

PA = Piano Accordion


Ta! That's so obvious when you write it down, but I was racking my brains to work it out. ;)

#59 danersen

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 01:48 PM

Irene,
Here's a visual for you relating to David's comment associating the Jeffries duet layout to the Jeffries anglo layout.
Dan

Edited by danersen, 31 August 2012 - 01:51 PM.


#60 David Barnert

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Posted 31 August 2012 - 10:19 PM

Irene,
Here's a visual for you relating to David's comment associating the Jeffries duet layout to the Jeffries anglo layout.
Dan

I'm glad it backs up what I said, but it leaves me more confused than before. I can certainly see why cjmiller saw the need to ask.

[Edited for typo]

Edited by David Barnert, 03 September 2012 - 06:57 AM.


#61 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 12:21 PM

Since a good portion of the Duet Concertina world seems to be involved with this thread, would anyone care to comment on the 62 key Jeffries Duet Chris Algar has on ebay at the moment?

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3a792b331e

Does it make sense to anyone? I have no interest in owning it, but it fascinates me, because I can sort of wrap my head around the Crane and Maccann systems, but even with the fingering chart in front of me that beast defies all logic. If I played Anglo would the puzzle pieces start fitting together?

Well, someone wanted it - sold for GBP 1,800.00 .

#62 Irene S.

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 02:48 PM

Irene,
Here's a visual for you relating to David's comment associating the Jeffries duet layout to the Jeffries anglo layout.
Dan

Thanks ... I suppose? I have no idea why I should be interested in that . :huh: I was only asking what the abbreviations stood for ...

#63 JimLucas

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:01 PM

Since a good portion of the Duet Concertina world seems to be involved with this thread, would anyone care to comment on the 62 key Jeffries Duet Chris Algar has on ebay at the moment?

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item3a792b331e

Sold for 1800.
IMO, somebody got a very good deal.

Does it make sense to anyone?

It does to me, and to at least a couple of other folks I know.

I wish I had had the cash to bid.
I hope we hear from the buyer... both about the purchase and eventually with some examples of playing.

#64 danersen

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Posted 02 September 2012 - 03:02 PM

1346615317[/url]' post='139259']

1346438927[/url]' post='139207']
Irene,
Here's a visual for you relating to David's comment associating the Jeffries duet layout to the Jeffries anglo layout.
Dan

Thanks ... I suppose? I have no idea why I should be interested in that . :huh: I was only asking what the abbreviations stood for ...


Irene,
Misdirected.
I was adding supplemental content to David's reply which I now see was in reply to cjmiller.
My apology.
Dan

Edited by danersen, 02 September 2012 - 03:05 PM.


#65 Ivan Viehoff

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 04:29 AM

To get back to the original point, the fact that Algar failed to sell the Middle C-55 key Maccann at 900, nor 850 at last check, is perhaps a strong indication of how very weak the Maccann market has become in present economic conditions. A few years ago he would have had little difficulty getting 1300+ for it. I bet some people who paid such sums for their 57-keys are feeling twinges of regret.

Though this particular concerting does have a marketing problem. I must confess I lost interest as soon as I saw "55-key" and never even got to the end of the line. He should really have called it a "57-key with 2 keys missing" or a "Middle C-55-Key", to get its wonderful advantage clearly up front.

Btw, I don't believe estimates of only around 70 Maccannics. I've come across a few here and there in folk groups and Morris dance troupes. So they can't really be that rare.

#66 Myrtle's cook

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 05:36 AM

I think Ivan is probably right in terms of total Meccannics, I have seen at least a dozen Maccan players (some very accomplished musicians) amongst the concertina bands of the Liverpool Orange lodges.

Perhaps the issue is that in the present economic conditions those of us who have a Maccan are sticking with it and resisting the temptation to buy another, and also that duets are not often regarded as an 'entry' level instruments for those coming to the concertina afresh - so there is little 'new blood' coming into the market for their first duet.

#67 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 06:34 AM

I think Ivan is probably right in terms of total Meccannics, I have seen at least a dozen Maccan players (some very accomplished musicians) amongst the concertina bands of the Liverpool Orange lodges.

Perhaps the issue is that in the present economic conditions those of us who have a Maccan are sticking with it and resisting the temptation to buy another, and also that duets are not often regarded as an 'entry' level instruments for those coming to the concertina afresh - so there is little 'new blood' coming into the market for their first duet.





Oh! That is interesting indeed.

One comment that has been made, somewhere (perhaps privately to me), is that whilst there are plenty of people on the Concertina Scene who have a duet, for some it is their second keyboard which they do not play, or have semi given up on. The touble with this is 'generalisation' due to the fact that none of us moves around enough to know anything like all the players. A survey was conducted here last year of people who were known to actually play the Maccann and that is where the 70 figure comes from I think.

PS;
I have a 57 Aeola Maccann that I am considering selling, because I have recently aquired a 67 but, the 57 is a fantastic player and in such good condition that I don't think I could bare to part with it... after all "they ain't making these any more"!

#68 Irene S.

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:41 PM


I think Ivan is probably right in terms of total Meccannics, I have seen at least a dozen Maccan players (some very accomplished musicians) amongst the concertina bands of the Liverpool Orange lodges.

Perhaps the issue is that in the present economic conditions those of us who have a Maccan are sticking with it and resisting the temptation to buy another, and also that duets are not often regarded as an 'entry' level instruments for those coming to the concertina afresh - so there is little 'new blood' coming into the market for their first duet.





Oh! That is interesting indeed.

One comment that has been made, somewhere (perhaps privately to me), is that whilst there are plenty of people on the Concertina Scene who have a duet, for some it is their second keyboard which they do not play, or have semi given up on. The touble with this is 'generalisation' due to the fact that none of us moves around enough to know anything like all the players. A survey was conducted here last year of people who were known to actually play the Maccann and that is where the 70 figure comes from I think.

PS;
I have a 57 Aeola Maccann that I am considering selling, because I have recently aquired a 67 but, the 57 is a fantastic player and in such good condition that I don't think I could bare to part with it... after all "they ain't making these any more"!


Geoff, I think you mentioned the survey where the figure of 70 comes from before. Was this the listing I had started of so far known players at the turn of the year before going into hospital for a hip replacement operation ? If so 70 is definitely on the very low side , as I have added further since then , and it is quite obvious from the two duet concertina workshops that I have attended in the last couple of years that there are others out there who are not on the list. (I am aware of at least another 10-20 that I have come across in person) ,,, so we're over 100 at the moment, which doesn't hold in account those who don't go to festivals, who play the concertina on their own at home, are not associated with the folk world etc . (I was recently told of one elderly lady who plays an 80+ key instrument). In fact I came across somebody else only this last week playing a Maccann (who normally plays a cello) at another folk event. So 70 is only minimal. When I first took the instrument up a few years ago, the figure of 150 players kept being thrown at me, but nobody could actually provide any evidence for where that figure came from . I was trying to find the list just now, but at the moment it seems to have done a runner (I just hope I haven't deleted it by mistake as I have three more names to add to it).

Re the concertina bands, the beast that I have recently had refurbished had actually been played by someone who had originally played her in a Salvation Band, and then in an Orange Lodge concertina band in Liverpool, and the instrument in question had been in his possession and played by him in those bands for at least 40 years. Until then I had been unaware that the bands in Liverpool existed. Youtube videos of them can be found (although some of the bands calling themselves concertina bands do seem to incorporate accordions as well. Main weapons of choice for some seem to be Anglos or Duets.

Edited by Irene S, 05 September 2012 - 02:46 PM.


#69 Irene S.

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 02:52 PM



I think Ivan is probably right in terms of total Meccannics, I have seen at least a dozen Maccan players (some very accomplished musicians) amongst the concertina bands of the Liverpool Orange lodges.

Perhaps the issue is that in the present economic conditions those of us who have a Maccan are sticking with it and resisting the temptation to buy another, and also that duets are not often regarded as an 'entry' level instruments for those coming to the concertina afresh - so there is little 'new blood' coming into the market for their first duet.





Oh! That is interesting indeed.

One comment that has been made, somewhere (perhaps privately to me), is that whilst there are plenty of people on the Concertina Scene who have a duet, for some it is their second keyboard which they do not play, or have semi given up on. The touble with this is 'generalisation' due to the fact that none of us moves around enough to know anything like all the players. A survey was conducted here last year of people who were known to actually play the Maccann and that is where the 70 figure comes from I think.

PS;
I have a 57 Aeola Maccann that I am considering selling, because I have recently aquired a 67 but, the 57 is a fantastic player and in such good condition that I don't think I could bare to part with it... after all "they ain't making these any more"!


Geoff, I think you mentioned the survey where the figure of 70 comes from before. Was this the listing I had started of so far known players at the turn of the year before going into hospital for a hip replacement operation ? If so 70 is definitely on the very low side , as I have added further since then , and it is quite obvious from the two duet concertina workshops that I have attended in the last couple of years that there are others out there who are not on the list. (I am aware of at least another 10-20 that I have come across in person) ,,, so we're over 100 at the moment, which doesn't hold in account those who don't go to festivals, who play the concertina on their own at home, are not associated with the folk world etc . (I was recently told of one elderly lady who plays an 80+ key instrument). In fact I came across somebody else only this last week playing a Maccann (who normally plays a cello) at another folk event. So 70 is only minimal. When I first took the instrument up a few years ago, the figure of 150 players kept being thrown at me, but nobody could actually provide any evidence for where that figure came from . I was trying to find the list just now, but at the moment it seems to have done a runner (I just hope I haven't deleted it by mistake as I have three more names to add to it). By the way, members of the Maccann-McCann concertina group are currently at 85 (which I don't think includes you?), five having joined in the last three months, although admittedly there are a couple of non-Maccann players amongst them. http://maccann-mccann.ning.com/

Re the concertina bands, the beast that I have recently had refurbished had actually been played by someone who had originally played her in a Salvation Band, and then in an Orange Lodge concertina band in Liverpool, and the instrument in question had been in his possession and played by him in those bands for at least 40 years. Until then I had been unaware that the bands in Liverpool existed. Youtube videos of them can be found (although some of the bands calling themselves concertina bands do seem to incorporate accordions as well. Main weapons of choice for some seem to be Anglos or Duets.


Edited by Irene S, 05 September 2012 - 02:54 PM.


#70 ceemonster

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Posted 05 September 2012 - 11:47 PM

[To get back to the original point, the fact that Algar failed to sell the Middle C-55 key Maccann at 900, nor 850 at last check, is perhaps a strong indication of how very weak the Maccann market has become in present economic conditions.]

it's a fascinating question as to whether it's a maccann phenom or wider....i note that there are nine vintage ECs in stock at Button Box just now. Nine.

#71 Greg Jowaisas

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 04:01 AM

[To get back to the original point, the fact that Algar failed to sell the Middle C-55 key Maccann at 900, nor 850 at last check, is perhaps a strong indication of how very weak the Maccann market has become in present economic conditions.]

it's a fascinating question as to whether it's a maccann phenom or wider....i note that there are nine vintage ECs in stock at Button Box just now. Nine.


I have no doubt that the current uncertain economic conditions in many parts of the world are giving people pause in their purchases. However some of the apparent concertina buying malaise may be, in part, seasonal. August is vacation or holiday month for many and September is back to school with its own expenses.

It may be more telling to see how many concertinas are left at the Button Box a few weeks after the Squeeze In.

Greg

#72 ceemonster

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Posted 06 September 2012 - 11:46 PM

yes, very interesting point. tho i wasn't saying they'd been sitting there a long time. the list of in-stock ECs has been expanding. i believe that is the longest list of vintage ECs there that i've ever seen in any season. and i think that's related to shared factors with the maccanns or whatever not selling. but you could be right. interesting to see.

Edited by ceemonster, 06 September 2012 - 11:47 PM.





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