7 replies to this topic

[wes]

need your dating expertise here on an english i have marked 64 on the pans and also on one of the papers. probably a batch. i feel its from the time Chidley was running the factory as the reeds are secured with a very small and precise rivet. daisy papers in gold, leather a bit of green color, rosewood, nickel capped buttons, rivet action. the rest of it looks pretty standard. old philharmonic, or rather was. now 440 equal. i was thinking around 1865. any ideas? hope so...

[wes]

no inquiring minds so far. hmm. well after much searching about, i would go for a later date, somewhere in the 1870's and it sounds like Edward Chidley was running the Wheatstone factory then. it would be easier to date this instrument if it had any sign of a full serial #, but it doesn't. I thought maybe having the batch # stamped on one of the daisy papers would be significant also. w.

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[gcoover]

Wes, I have an almost identical instrument, an unpolished rosewood 56-button extended treble, and it's one of the finest EC's I've ever played. The wooden ends and reedpans are virtually identical to the ones in your photographs, and it has riveted reeds, except someone has added cork inserts to shorten the reed chambers. The only number I can find anywhere is just "71".

I'd be curious to know when Wheatstone used riveted reeds. Mine have held up amazingly well all these decades, but I can see how riveted reeds would be a pain to replace, so that's probably why Wheatstone dropped the idea and went back to screwed reeds? It must have been a very convincing rivet salesman who got them to do it in the first place!

Gary

Edited by gcoover, 30 July 2012 - 07:56 PM.

[wes]

i can't play the english system, but this tina came beautifully in tune with itself in the old high pitch. it has a warm flute-like sound, but not very loud even though it has steel reeds. if you look closely at the reeds you can see the shiny areas of new tuning and the aggressive marks from the original tune. that person has some sort of rotary tool they used, probably foot powered or something like that. i shudder when i look at the old marks but the reeds have held up just fine. the tina had been dropped at some point and the bellows were torn badly along with some fretwork and keys broken off. one thing done by by the bellows maker didn't stand the test of time: the inner fold was taped with a fine thin white skin instead of linen and it had rotted leaving the bellows to separate.
i share your thoughts on the rivet system. too hard to replace a reed. glad you enjoy yours so much!

[SteveS]

... it's one of the finest EC's I've ever played...

I too have one with good riveted reeds - plays exceedingly well - fast action, punchy reeds, mellow sound but yet a great dynamic range - overall a super 'tina, and was my main squeeze for a number of years before I got my TT.

Edited by SteveS, 31 July 2012 - 07:12 PM.

[wes williams]

...I'd be curious to know when Wheatstone used riveted reeds. Mine have held up amazingly well all these decades, but I can see how riveted reeds would be a pain to replace, so that's probably why Wheatstone dropped the idea and went back to screwed reeds? It must have been a very convincing rivet salesman who got them to do it in the first place!

Basically, riveted reeds were used in instruments sold from around April 1865 up to the 1890s decade with serial numbers 18,000 upwards. After William Wheatstone died in 1862, the company continued selling screwed reed instruments, probably because they had arrangements with other people (like Lachenal) to supply them. These instruments have serials up to around 15,500, but could possibly be numbered in error since there are only a handfull higher than serial 14,000 documented . But in April 1865 they sold the first of the 18,000 series Edward Chidley made instruments (see Ledger C1053 Page 13), and by March 1866 they are being produced in quantity, as you can see from Ledger 1054 page 133 onwards (first instrument 18,061). This ledger continues up to the end of 1891(plus a few later oddments on later pages), and then we have a gap in records until Ledger SD01 starts in May 1910.

Edward Chidley had worked with harmoniums, so used the idea of riveted reeds in all Wheatstone instruments produced during his time in control of the company. He died in 1899 and the company passed to his sons, who presumably had come up with their own ideas in the 1890/1900 decades, including the Aeola (6 and 8 sided versions) and screwed reeds, and in Ledger SD01 we see a much wider range of instrument models and types.

None of the the three ledgers mentioned have batch number information, so the question Wes originally asked doesn't seem to have any obvious answers. But perhaps it can be shown that concertinas of this type were usually marked with serials internally from a certain date and/or serial onwards, which might narrow the date range.

Edit: I should really have written None of the the three ledgers mentioned have relevant batch number information since the batch number info starts in SD01, but of course they weren't using riveted reeds by then.

Edited by wes williams, 08 August 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[wes]

Thanks for the great bit of detailed history on this great company! I'm constantly impressed with the vast knowledge some of the contributors have here.
As there was no serial number besides the '63' on the decorative paper and inside, (originally stated it was 64, but looked inside again) i'll never know exactly but it does give a firmer idea as to the general time frame.

wes

[wes williams]

You're welcome Wes. Us 'old' hands have discussed some relevant points a while ago: go to this thread http://www.concertin...?showtopic=5733 from 2007, and have a read. Half way down you'll find my response with links to two earlier threads from 2004. Both cover the 1890s and riveted reeds.