16 replies to this topic

[sjrippe]

Hello,

I play traditional irish & folk music and over the years I find myself really enjoying my english concertina (Wheatstone 48, metal ends).
When I play in some sessions that are loud I find it difficult to sometimes hear myself playing. When I play my flute and other instruments you can do different techniques to push the volume.
I am curious what other players do and if you have any advice?

Steven,
St. Paul, Minnesota

[spindizzy]

Hello,

I play traditional irish & folk music and over the years I find myself really enjoying my english concertina (Wheatstone 48, metal ends).
When I play in some sessions that are loud I find it difficult to sometimes hear myself playing. When I play my flute and other instruments you can do different techniques to push the volume.
I am curious what other players do and if you have any advice?

Steven,
St. Paul, Minnesota

I play EC in sessions, and I'd be cautious about doubting your audibility and get a second opinion.
The sound from a concertina goes out sideways and other people may be able to hear you very well, even though you can't hear much yourself.
I like (if possible) to sit in a corner, with a couple of har d surfaces on either side of you the difference in sound can be quite surprising and the "feedback" is very helpful.

Chris
ps DH, who plays fiddle has the opposite problem, he can hear himself easily enough, but a fiddle a few inches from the ear may make it difficult to hear other people!

Edited by spindizzy, 03 July 2012 - 05:05 PM.

[John Wild]

Hello,

I play traditional irish & folk music and over the years I find myself really enjoying my english concertina (Wheatstone 48, metal ends).
When I play in some sessions that are loud I find it difficult to sometimes hear myself playing. When I play my flute and other instruments you can do different techniques to push the volume.
I am curious what other players do and if you have any advice?

Steven,
St. Paul, Minnesota

I play EC in sessions, and I'd be cautious about doubting your audibility and get a second opinion.
The sound from a concertina goes out sideways and other people may be able to hear you very well, even though you can't hear much yourself.
I like (if possible) to sit in a corner, with a couple of har d surfaces on either side of you the difference in sound can be quite surprising and the "feedback" is very helpful.

Chris
ps DH, who plays fiddle has the opposite problem, he can hear himself easily enough, but a fiddle a few inches from the ear may make it difficult to hear other people!

another viewpoint is that if you cannot hear yourself you must be playing all the right notes - you would notice if you were not.

best wishes

John Wild

[sjrippe]

Hello,

I play traditional irish & folk music and over the years I find myself really enjoying my english concertina (Wheatstone 48, metal ends).
When I play in some sessions that are loud I find it difficult to sometimes hear myself playing. When I play my flute and other instruments you can do different techniques to push the volume.
I am curious what other players do and if you have any advice?

Steven,
St. Paul, Minnesota

I play EC in sessions, and I'd be cautious about doubting your audibility and get a second opinion.
The sound from a concertina goes out sideways and other people may be able to hear you very well, even though you can't hear much yourself.
I like (if possible) to sit in a corner, with a couple of har d surfaces on either side of you the difference in sound can be quite surprising and the "feedback" is very helpful.

Chris
ps DH, who plays fiddle has the opposite problem, he can hear himself easily enough, but a fiddle a few inches from the ear may make it difficult to hear other people!

[sjrippe]

Very helpful feedback, I really appreciate the insight.

Steven

[spindizzy]

Very helpful feedback, I really appreciate the insight.

Steven

I have the advantage(?) of playing in a session where there may be quite a few other concertinas and a melodeon. I reckon that since I can hear them, they can hear me, even if I can't (and if there's a bum note we all look at each other to pass the blame around)!

[Anglo-Irishman]

There's one interesting experiment you can try: just stop playing, and listen whether the mix of sound that reaches your ears has changed!

We've often used this trick when working up arrangements in our folk group, when we can't explicitly hear a particular instrument. Sometimes we leave it out for a section of the tune, and bring it in later. There's always a difference, so the listeners do hear the instrument.

A special case is concertina (in this case, my hybrid Anglo) and fiddle. The timbres are practically indistinguishable when we play a jig in unison, but you notice immediately when one of us stops - or , as the other John pointed out, when one of us plays a wrong note! (But we just call that heterophony! )

Cheers,
John

[blue eyed sailor]

Besides the former contributions I suggest you might get into the way of playing your instrument in sort of a freehand (and thus necessarily more upright and nearer to the ears) manner (which I myself prefer anyway).

You won't depend on some uncertain reflexions that much then...

Edited by blue eyed sailor, 04 July 2012 - 03:48 AM.

[sjrippe]

I am curious and I really do not know if it is reasonable to play with more pressure on the bellows to produce a louder tone, is that a technique that people use?
Can my concertina reeds take that kind of additional pressure? I go through a far number of harmonicas blowing out the reeds and I do not want to be foolish or develop my concertina playing in an impractical manner. Any insight would be helpful

Very Hot in St. Paul,
Steven

[cboody]

First the "on topic" part: I play EC in various situations with Irish and other trad musics, and have never had difficulty hearing it. Do you perhaps have an instrument with brass reeds? They are often softer sounding. I'd not presume to suggest how hard you can push the volume of the instrument without pushing things out of tune. I do hope someone will speculate on that though. I'd be interested too.

Now the off topic bit: I'm in Mound, MN. Where are you playing? Maybe we should look into getting together.

Chuck Boody

[Geoff Wooff]

I think it could be usefull to any responders here if you gave 'chapter and verse' on these loud sessions Sjrippe.

There will always be situations where it is impossible to hear yourself play but, at what level does that start? If you are sandwiched between two naturally loud instruments and thus have one in each ear, well that can be difficult.

There are times when I use my 48key metal ended Wheaststone in very noisy situations and have extracted the very last drop of blood from it with no detrimental effects but really I would prefer to avoid such situations.This is only when playing with a band.

In a session situation it really should not be necessary to play so strongly as to cause damage but a good concertina should have a reasonable amount of dynamic range.... the only problem being that the other players are often using Max power on their instruments all the time.

Sounds like a good suggestion from Chuck Boody to meet up if you are in the same region.

[yankeeclipper]

Steven and Chuck - I'm an old MN EC player and would enjoy getting together with you both - maybe some quiet evening (if there is such a thing) at The Dubliner pub on University Avenue and Vandalia in Saint Paul. I have sent you messages with contact information.

Being able to hear your own instrument in a noisy session has always been a problem for EC players - especially near fiddlers. The suggestion of backing into a corner where the walls can reflect sound is a good one. Another option is to surreptitiously soap the fiddler's bow.

[spindizzy]

Steven and Chuck - I'm an old MN EC player and would enjoy getting together with you both - maybe some quiet evening (if there is such a thing) at The Dubliner pub on University Avenue and Vandalia in Saint Paul. I have sent you messages with contact information.

Being able to hear your own instrument in a noisy session has always been a problem for EC players - especially near fiddlers. The suggestion of backing into a corner where the walls can reflect sound is a good one. Another option is to surreptitiously soap the fiddler's bow.

http://www.tradition...ld_Mans_Bow.htm

[LDT]

I play anglo and I gave up playing it in large sessions (might bring it out if it is a small or more 'sensitively played' session)...just can't hear myself at all. I play the melodeon instead.

[chris]

and then nobody else can hear themselves
chris ( who doesn't play in sessions!)

[Anglo-Irishman]

http://www.tradition...ld_Mans_Bow.htm

Spindizzy,

What a charming little piece! Really took me back in time. I remember the "wag upon the wall", only it was called a "wag at the wall" in Ulster. How many of the younger folks know that it's a large wall-clock with a pendulum? And I remember the "glory hole" (that's in below the stair), too.

I also remember my mother's stories of musical life in Derry about the time of WWI - when there was some bombastic musical event, like Handel's Messiah at Christmas, the orchestra had to be as big as possible. So everybody who owned a violin was pressed into service - and some of them were instructed to put soap on their bows! ("Children should be seen and not heard" is an apt quotation from that period )

Cheers,
John

[cboody]

Passing thought: The very worst session I've been in (musically) included a very good Anglo player who had the loudest instrument I've ever had the displeasure of hearing. Not only that but he constantly added droning basses. Very musical but excruciatingly loud. Whistle, fiddle, guitar, banjo, hammered dulcimer and EC just disappeared behind his super loud instrument. I thought about getting out my trumpet..... The only saving grace is that he plays very well. Be thankful that you instrument is not like that.