48 replies to this topic

[Anglo-Irishman]

When I get round to recording Memories of You, I'll do a mixed in version with actual recordings to compare solo/ensemble.

When I play along with recordings its as if I'm part of the band.

Just a moment - the "mix" I was talking about was a mix of real, actual acoustic instruments! Guitars, fiddles, mandolins, concertinas, double basses, flutes, etc. without amplification, and all playing the same piece at the same time.

When you play along with recordings you're definitely not part of the band, because although you can hear them, they can't hear you. And what ensemble playing is all about is listening to what all the others are doing, and sometimes following them, sometimes taking the lead - be it in tempo, volume or execution. For instance, when others are playing twiddly bits, you keep it simple - and when you play your twiddly bits, the others keep it simple.
And besides, you can't see the others, and eye contact is very important in welding players together to a band. The ones who get out of synch are the ones that have been looking at their hands all the time!

Playing along with recordings is fine when you're learning to play a new piece at performance tempo, but it doesn't train your ensemble playing!

OMHO.

Cheers,
John

[kevin toner]

Thanks John,

I completely agree with that, apologies for misleading!

ps Jody, On the distraction side there's a certain song of great significance (possibly Music Hall era) often credited as by Anonymous that I should mention, which implies that frustration from distraction is again nothing new!

Although forgive me for taking the following angle. The song probably has nothing to do with distraction whatsoever. Which song, where and when?

Imagine trying to write Ulysees with Molly Malone crying outside your chosen abode. Yes it's the 1800s Dublin anthem "Cockles and Mussels". Dublin is of course now UNESCO City of Literature. Perhaps creativity/culture truly prevails if and when its anthems get the upper hand...

The Music Hall era struggled to survive apparently. If Harry Lauder (nb album: The First Knight Of The Music Hall) was its first knight then perhaps we can safely say Mercury was its last!

Sorry for going off on a tangent to the topic: On with the show, if you can, and you're not me...;

Oh, my amp is working wonders for me now: as without it I'd be at a loss, i.e. with what are the modern day 'cockles and mussels' and Molly Malones of this world, as I haven't got the ability to turn a blind ear.

At night time, if and when it's quiet enough, I'll resort to silent playing as I'm concious of the sound:

• It's ironic that the only time I'll be fully airing is: 1) when suped up cars are going down the nearby dead-end at the back of the rly stn to hang out anywhere between my flat and the Buchanan Galleries Depot [un-suped cars even skid out here when leaving presumably after picking up stn travellers or breaching the "buses/taxis only" lanes as a non-motorway shortcut through town - why, I ask, as the Glasgow IRR is the world's tightest - beats me] amongst occasional convoys of echoing buses/taxis emergency vehicles etc.; 2) during never-ending construction works between periods of resurgent faulty alarms; _;_ ;_ ;_ ; etc.] I'll fill in the blanks another time!

As my instrument hasn't been serviced in over two decades this means much playing or notes will simply cut out.

Jody, as you mentioned before, I'm with you in thinking that you really need to hear something when practising "silently" as it were; as I too cannot warm to playing complete silence, i.e. merely pressing buttons, but not airing with applied using zero bellows pressure!

Although, again said, I do do this simply to mentally map which buttons I've to memorise, then later proceed in normal play to air the notes.

Edited by kevin toner, 19 June 2012 - 09:54 AM.

[chris]

Kevin, I think what you need is a synthesizer concertina, a small amp and headphones.
chris

Edited by chris, 19 June 2012 - 08:24 AM.

[kevin toner]

Kevin, I think what you need is a synthesizer concertina, a small amp and headphones.
chris

No thanks Chris, even if you were to pay me to, or be able to make one as authentically as possible!

ps Perhaps no other concertina beats the sound of a 1910s risen metal ended Wheatstone Aeola, which I've happened to inherit.

pps Miking it up to an amp means I've not inherited it in vain. It sounds tremendously fantastic when an adequate amount of pressure is applied: as if no service is necessary really, i.e. at this particular stage in my development.

Edited by kevin toner, 19 June 2012 - 08:36 AM.

[kevin toner]

Thanks Chris again,

headphones actually do take the edge off the noisier episodes. I don't know what I'd do without them. I wish I could record what I'm hearing though, but I'd need a y connector for my phones and to simultaneously connect to a recorder. Alas my laptop is not a great recorder of live sound from the concertina despite having a great mike/mixer/amp set up!

...I’ve left a photo or two here zooming into boxes and the likes that I think the noise might be possibly emanating from here...

I was wrong: the bleeps were not from these. I found out that these boxes are simply noise/vibration monitors to detect/maintain acceptable/safe levels from adjacent site operations.

Funnily, recently on a BBC news article on the current Royal Society exhibit, I think, there was close parallel to the rhythms and tones characteristics of the aforementioned curious bleeping, but typically I can't seem to locate it now from the BBC News website, searching under 'bubble' :

I believe the scientist who explained the sounds was Dr Gianluca Memoli who can can be seen here talking in-house on the topic:

http://sse.royalsociety.org/2012/exhibits/sensing-bubbles/

I wish I had the BBC article though because it was a near rendition of the aforementioned bleeping. In a similar manner, I've noticed my local bleeps changing tone too sometimes from beyond piccolo to cello, not per bleep, but per occasion, although it's much more likely to be at the high end. How uncanny I thought when I seen the bbc news article a week or so after my original citing of the bleeps!

Last time I notice them was in the dead of night, probably within a week. Just after the witching hour when writing a post, I noticed it blatantly obvious amongst some passing laughter from outside. Perhaps they'd heard the same thing, as it's easy to detect if it occurs at quiet times, and found it funny

Perhaps we can call it the Toner-Boson - ergo is it really there all around us - I'd hope not as learning concertina is difficult enough without such garnish!

Edited by kevin toner, 06 July 2012 - 05:33 AM.

[halimium]

How do I make mine quieter so I can play at night?

Maybe put some foam over the soundholes?

[Johanna]

How do I make mine quieter so I can play at night?

Maybe put some foam over the soundholes?

That'll do it (or some heavy fabric, or whatever you have). My first "external baffles" for my Stagi mini were strips of denim cut from an old pair of jeans, stuck to the concertina with scotch tape. Wasn't much to look at, but it did the job for the time being.

[Rod]

How do I make mine quieter so I can play at night?

Maybe put some foam over the soundholes?

I haven't read through all the comments under this topic. Much must depend upon the many characteristics of the individual instrument in question. My Anglo is perfectly easy to play at negligible volume which suits me fine and its tone, to my ear, is then at it's sweetest and most satisfactory. All of course a matter of individual taste. The metal ends are lined internally with a sheet of thin ,very finely-woven, 'silken', (problably man-made), fabric which must have some effect upon the overall result but I guess that this is just one of many different aspects of this particuler instrument's construction all of which combine to provide the final overall acoustic result.

[halimium]

How do I make mine quieter so I can play at night?

Maybe put some foam over the soundholes?

I haven't read through all the comments under this topic. Much must depend upon the many characteristics of the individual instrument in question. My Anglo is perfectly easy to play at negligible volume which suits me fine and its tone, to my ear, is then at it's sweetest and most satisfactory. All of course a matter of individual taste. The metal ends are lined internally with a sheet of thin ,very finely-woven, 'silken', (problably man-made), fabric which must have some effect upon the overall result but I guess that this is just one of many different aspects of this particuler instrument's construction all of which combine to provide the final overall acoustic result.

Oh, may be I just play too loud?

[Larry Stout]

I have one very soft voiced EC which I can use to play lullabies. I also have an EC I can play unamplified to drive a whole room full of dancers. The answer to the original question is "it depends on the particular instrument."

[kevin toner]

Thanks Chris again,

headphones actually do take the edge off the noisier episodes. I don't know what I'd do without them. I wish I could record what I'm hearing though, but I'd need a y connector for my phones and to simultaneously connect to a recorder. Alas my laptop is not a great recorder of live sound from the concertina despite having a great mike/mixer/amp set up!

...I’ve left a photo or two here zooming into boxes and the likes that I think the noise might be possibly emanating from here...

I was wrong: the bleeps were not from these. I found out that these boxes are simply noise/vibration monitors to detect/maintain acceptable/safe levels from adjacent site operations.

Funnily, recently on a BBC news article on the current Royal Society exhibit, I think, there was close parallel to the rhythms and tones characteristics of the aforementioned curious bleeping, but typically I can't seem to locate it now from the BBC News website, searching under 'bubble' :

I believe the scientist who explained the sounds was Dr Gianluca Memoli who can can be seen here talking in-house on the topic:

http://sse.royalsociety.org/2012/exhibits/sensing-bubbles/

I wish I had the BBC article though because it was a near rendition of the aforementioned bleeping. In a similar manner, I've noticed my local bleeps changing tone too sometimes from beyond piccolo to cello, not per bleep, but per occasion, although it's much more likely to be at the high end. How uncanny I thought when I seen the bbc news article a week or so after my original citing of the bleeps!

Last time I notice them was in the dead of night, probably within a week. Just after the witching hour when writing a post, I noticed it blatantly obvious amongst some passing laughter from outside. Perhaps they'd heard the same thing, as it's easy to detect if it occurs at quiet times, and found it funny

Perhaps we can call it the Toner-Boson - ergo is it really there all around us - I'd hope not as learning concertina is difficult enough without such garnish!

The day after this post when I was trying to forget what might be causing the peeps, a BBC News report on the ineffectiveness of young offenders’ electronic tags got me unconvincingly thinking for a moment ‘could that be it’ I said of course, nah!

However, back on track, I’ve made progress Chris regarding the actual source, if you’re still there. I’ll come to that in a moment. Firstly folks,

Other interesting parallels, better than the Dr Memoli bubbles, would be the scorelight or stickylight, in fact this might be more similar than the bubbles' sound experiments:

http://www.ninjalovesdigital.com/2009/10/scorelight-by-alvaro-cassinelli.html

http://www.k2.t.u-tokyo.ac.jp/perception/StickyLight/

However, today I’ve found where an instance of the bleeping is coming from, although I've had to hunt high and low for it as it rarely occurs outside the endless revving noises from various plant. Yes, they kinda sound like Morse code machines; and site personnel, up until now, have not disclosed what it was.

If it’s what helps exacerbate the revving noises from the traffic or site plant, then it’s time I had a rest from ‘em eh - I want to be able to hear what I'm playing without wearing phones. That said, Yesterday I had another golden period where I could sense something of a rumbly undertone (?) give way, perhaps again something from the site, which when turned off made the busy bus/taxi avenue traffic pass by astonishingly quiet in comparison... I was therefore able to enjoy my music – too exhausted from it all to practise. The worst of the site noise is to end in around a month, so I think I’ll take my progress a little easier through this horrendously loud period.

Right, no more suspense:-

It appears that the recorded bleeps [as per my previous link] are likewise laser based, i.e. from an on-site laser scanner for surveying progress, presumably to maintain steelwork tolerances? They’d probably be more distracting if there weren’t construction/traffic noises to mask them. Perhaps it deliberately coincides with plant operations to mask their peepiness (?) I’ve noticed it running all day today because of its relative closeness perhaps. Although there are 2 different kinds, yards apart. As I write this, my nearby fridge is now reminding me of the laser noise, tut!

I’ve taken a photo of one here and have added another video revealing the extra one being turned on by staff during my search for it: A veritable case of its Leica lens Vs my Leica lens. An edited version of the video is here.

-

Now some actual crazy stuff if I may impart. If you’ve got this in NYC hardlines! It shouldn’t really be happening in ‘pavement’ Glasgow, but the indoors smoking ban has its downside in downtown.

On the subject of the voice throwing passer-by[ers], which I’ve briefly mentioned before. I make no apology for this little photoshoot here, capturing the back of one or two chaps from my first accidental run-in with this ageless genre. Don’t worry it’s going to be my last!

Having had a bellyful of the never ending chatter act that can occur from time to time or indefinitely during practise, but which drove me up the wall in the past, when it literally sounded like one person with a rumbly voice talking all day long..., and they’re definitely throwing their voices it’d seem, I stuck my head out the window and cursed to myself looking over at the techno lads pub throng [a block away] that often have thumping house music helping to exacerbate the traffic revs when I’m trying to hear my own music, only to see one of the chatterers from below looking up before moving on and asking ‘you talkin i me’ and trying to get his bud to look up too and join in on a fight, but they moved on. I didn’t entertain in any discussion.

Thank goodness I had my Leica lens to hand, albeit sharpness has been a little compromised from my wary positioning out the window...

My shots reveal both chaps’ journey to what looked like the wine bar, 2 blocks away (with its throng diagonally opposite the techno pub throng) before they quickly moved on, wisely as I might’ve went down to join them for a drink as I was thinking earlier in another similar instance when I’d looked out to see the exact same slow moving ‘big talking small fries’ hesitate before entering the pub in the other direction (1 block away) as I’d been watching this time [I’d originally thought loud mouths would be excited nearby cinema goers] – more about that in a moment, that throng can be a little unnerving at times as a local*, that’s 3 generations of regular throngs there (techno-crats; yobboes; & post-war crooner gangsters/Mafiosi); ! I wonder why they were both so quickly on their mobiles after the wee run-in. There are in fact 3 throngs looking down in the other direction towards the cinema: i.e. a yobbo land pub, and a less intimidating chain of eateries, bookies, etc. that really should be sited on a piazza to allow the gatherers to permit the passer-by unabated passage. Nothing unusual there, but when I was better off [prior to the recession] and during my cinema season ticket days, getting to the cinema on the next block up meant walking on the road. On some occasions when I thought I could use the pavement a couple of blocks/gals would comically walk backwards into my path. It’s the one good thing about not having the season ticket: no navigating pavement precincts!

*here’s a video of them [literally] halfway through an advert. I’m sure the pavement blocking is all good hearted stuff:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OiWZ963QsNw

In my rather restrained noise gallery are some other images I’d taken showing some more typified noise sources: enjoy!

Apologies if incoherent, but I mustn't bottle it up and get such big issues off my chest.

They call today ‘Fair Monday’ in Glasgow.

[Jody Kruskal]

From what I've seen you can't change the bass, which is always pretty dominating.

This is my opinion too. Dominating bass is so cool in a solo instrument. However, if what you are after is a quieter more accommodating instrument try mandolin... just kidding. English concertina blends very well with friends and the bass is gentle compared with the accordion. Sounds like a good choice, now get one and top talking about it.

[kevin toner]

No construction work today, but the exacerbated noises remain non-conducive to playing/contemplation? I’ve not been practising for a couple of weeks; and I now ask myself why I bear this.

The exacerbation of low frequencies can make a modest car engine sound excruciatingly severe and is not good during contemplation. It seems to have gone off upon typing these thoughts already, despite normal traffic going by, for how long I ask.

I should have long cottoned on that some entity or whatever it is (let’s call it Hyperacusis) does not want me progressing on concertina.

I will make a plea to myself. If sound stays like it is now I will return to progressing on the instrument. However, otherwise is simply torture, and cannot be doing me any good (?) It will simply annoy me to the point I’ll lose the rag.

Who knows: if I stay off concertina for a while maybe the ugly/irritating exacerbation will give way. I think it’s starting to come back now as I finish my post.

Okay: will now have to sign off until such times; and very sorry I’m taking this new approach. Yes, it’s definitely back now... I hope it’s not for long!

Goodbye for now. [Oh it’s back off again, I’m not playing on/off games – no way – it has to stay off for good I’m afraid, someone’s trying to call too, so better go]

Cheers again, I read in though!