11 replies to this topic

[DeboraM]

Hello to everyone ~

I am new to the world of concertinas and just to learn on, I bought an inexpensive 21 button Italian concertina from the online classifieds called Kijiji, but it came with a few problems. I took it apart to see what was up, and some of the reed valves were peeled back, so I used neatsfoot on them to soften them some and for the most part, as the neatsfoot dries, they are staying put, but the thing is in pieces on my table, so I can't learn how to play it yet. The plan is to make new valves, since I cannot seem to find a supplier here in Ontario, and I haven't found a source of leather that is thin enough yet. I will get it working eventually, but in the meantime, there is another concertina on Kijiji I would appreciate any advice as to what its value is, as there is no price listed on the ad. (Kijiji Ad ID 363498309)

It is a 48 key Wheatstone made in 1917, SN 27538, and located in Windsor, Ontario.

It is probably out of my reach, but I though one of you here might be interested in it.

Cheers
Debora

[kevin toner]

Hello to everyone ~

... I will get it working eventually, but in the meantime, there is another concertina on Kijiji I would appreciate any advice as to what its value is, as there is no price listed on the ad. (Kijiji Ad ID 363498309)

It is a 48 key Wheatstone made in 1917, SN 27538, and located in Windsor, Ontario.

It is probably out of my reach, but I though one of you here might be interested in it.

Cheers
Debora

This is the model 21 as can be seen here on the wheatstone pricelists (as uploaded at concertina.com).

You can gauge it against the other models such as my own as follows. My great Granddad's purchase (as my Granddad recalled, for "30 guineas", a veritable fortune back in 1912 when bought) of a risen metal ended model 19 at £24 + £1 (£25) equates to 4k to replace (if similar age) in the second hand market according to a valuation done by Chris based on my description. To replace with new by Wheatstone is 8k, which is similar to the original price based on RPI I think.

Therefore, a model 21 for sale might be worth around - £11/25 x 4K = £1,760 in the UK, i.e. if it's in a comparably good condition.

If you ever need a professional valuation, estimate, Chris' contact details are:

Chris Algar
Barleycorn Concertinas
Located in Stoke-on-Trent, England
Tel: + 44 (0) 1782 851449
Email:barleycorn@concertina.co.uk

Edited by kevin toner, 17 May 2012 - 06:26 AM.

[hjcjones]

Kevin's calculation assumes a similar proportion between prices today and in 1908 when the list was printed. I don't know prices for ECs, but I wonder whether is quite the same degree of distinction between the different models in today's market as was made between new instruments in Wheatstone's price list. However it's probably a useful starting point.

As an aside I find it interesting that Wheatstone's seemed to regard the Aeola as a different instrument, rather than as a particular model of concertina. In referring to its use for song accompaniment, they say "for which it is unapproachable save by Wheatstone's concertina", making a clear distinction as well as a comparison between them.

[malcolmbebb]

Hi Deborah, and welcome.

Good luck with your repair. You can get spares (and advice) from
http://www.concertina-spares.com/
and valves, if you end up buying some, are not expensive to ship. However, your present plan sounds good for an inexpensive concertina. Note that not all the reeds would have had valves.
If you post some photos you will probably get some comments and opinions
Forgive me if you already know this but your Italian box will almost certainly use the Anglo/German system, the Wheatstone box you found is English system. There is a big difference in how the notes are laid out and how you play them. There are loads of threads on here about the relative pros and cons!

You might like to look on Ebay for a different take on prices of concertinas, away from dealers.

Do you already play an instrument?

Cheers

Malcolm

[apprenticeOF]

Concertina Connection is a convenient source for parts on this side of the pond. Although both they and Concertina Spares are most valuable for parts for the more expensive vintage English made instruments.

[DeboraM]

Thank you for your advice and information. I have emailed the seller to see what they are asking for it and will take it from there. Gosh these things are expensive!

Malcolm - I have been getting more familiar with the differences between the Anglo and the English concertinas, but only from what I am gleaning from the internet and not practical knowledge. What a learning curve this is! I think I will stick to learning the Anglo for now and hopefully can find a 30 button one that is of better quality than this cheap one I have. On the up side, I am not afraid to delve into fixing things and I have learned already just what not to do when taking the thing apart and won't make the same mistakes again.

The buttons and bellows don't scare me off, as I have played a piano accordion most of my life, and in the past 8 years the hammered dulcimer and mountain dulcimer. Once I get the hang of the push/draw I should be off and running with it, since I have developed a knack for playing almost anything by ear.

Thanks for the links to concertina-spares and Concertina Connection. I will check them out for sure!

Here are some pics of the work in progress.

[Bill N]

What a learning curve this is! I think I will stick to learning the Anglo for now and hopefully can find a 30 button one that is of better quality than this cheap one I have.

Hi Deborah,

If you are anywhere near the Toronto-Hamilton-Kitchener area there are a number of sessions where you could see, hear (and probably try) a variety of anglos. I regularly attend sessions in Hamilton and Cambridge, and would be happy to let you have a go on my Rochelle (generally acknowledged to be the "best value" beginner's instrument-can be found in good used condition for around $300) and a Morse and Edgley (both quality hand-built accordion reeded "Hybrids" ) which are considered mid-range in price in the $2000 range. Can't speak for those with pricier vintage and concertina reeded concertinas, but they are a generally friendly and encouraging bunch!

[Mike Franch]

It's a pain putting things back together after every work session, but the prevailing wisdom, I think, is not to leave the concertina dissembled overnight. You can run into problems with them warping.

Others on the list are way more knowledgeable than I am on this, and can correct or offer additional comment on this.

Welcome to the concertina world! I've found it a very friendly, helpful place to be.

[DeboraM]

It's a pain putting things back together after every work session, but the prevailing wisdom, I think, is not to leave the concertina dissembled overnight. You can run into problems with them warping.

Too late - it has been in pieces for well over three weeks waiting for the valves to dry out a bit. The wood is so dry and being cheap plywood, I don't think warping is going to be a problem in this case, but a good thing to bear in mind if I get to taking a better one apart. Thanks for the info.

[DeboraM]

[If you are anywhere near the Toronto-Hamilton-Kitchener area there are a number of sessions where you could see, hear (and probably try) a variety of anglos. I regularly attend sessions in Hamilton and Cambridge, and would be happy to let you have a go on my Rochelle (generally acknowledged to be the "best value" beginner's instrument-can be found in good used condition for around $300) and a Morse and Edgley (both quality hand-built accordion reeded "Hybrids" ) which are considered mid-range in price in the $2000 range. Can't speak for those with pricier vintage and concertina reeded concertinas, but they are a generally friendly and encouraging bunch!

I am in Woodstock, so not too far, but transportation can be an issue (old vehicle that doesn't get out of town much). Is there a website or list with a calendar of events for the sessions coming up? Who knows, I might just be able to show up at one and would love to see your instruments and try the Rochelle out. Thanks for the offer! It sounds more in my price range for sure.

I got a reply on the Wheatstone and they are asking $2500 for it in case somebody is interested in it here.

Cheers

[Bill N]

I am in Woodstock, so not too far, but transportation can be an issue (old vehicle that doesn't get out of town much). Is there a website or list with a calendar of events for the sessions coming up? Who knows, I might just be able to show up at one and would love to see your instruments and try the Rochelle out. Thanks for the offer! It sounds more in my price range for sure.

Cheers

Well, the best session to see Anglos would be in Cambridge at the Golden Kiwi. Usually 2 or 3 players with numerous boxes. It's every other Sunday from 3 until 6ish. The exact schedule is on the Millrace Folk Society website. There is an Irish session at the Corktown Tavern in Hamilton every Tuesday at 8:30.

If you ever get to Toronto, there is an excellent session every 1st & 3rd Wed. evening at the Caledonian Pub. (I only get to that one once in a blue moon) Often it's a cornicopia of concertinas, both Anglo and English (although you probably won't see a beginner's concertina there ) But it's a good place to meet and hear some of the best players in Ontario.

If you like I'll ask around this Sunday to see if anyone drives in from the Woodstock area.

Edited by Bill N, 18 May 2012 - 06:48 AM.

[Robin Harrison]

If and when you are ready for a better quality instrument contact Paul Read on this website. He lives in Toronto (west side) and is an accomplished repair-man and often has anglos for sale. He will advise you honestly...for instance if you have your cheap Italian anglo repaired it will cost you more that it is worth.
You can order valves etc here....Dave Leese
As Bill says there are a number of sessions around Ontario. I lead the Toronto one where we play only trad English tunes (whatever that means). The Cambridge one is similar and closer to you. The others Bill can describe further but they sound like they would be too far for you. None of them are beginners sessions though so the thing to do is to come along and listen and see if you like it. Then the work begins.

Hope this helps.
Robin