31 replies to this topic

[kevin toner]

More progress being experienced, even yet, en-route to fully achieving Blake's "MoY", without doctoring nothing other than raising the occasional note (an octave) into my range.

Inter Alia gaining more comfort from very few final fingering tweaks, there is one last hitch deserving mention on my Curious Notation 'Hall of Fame'!

This here is where Blake/Razaf's notation transcriber has decided to put a G in the way of a (full octave) glissando between Bb & D, i.e. at "Mind" and "Way" in the verses, which we of course must "mind", excuse the [transcriber's] pun.

I've mentioned a few puns already from the perspective of an EC player, but here is one that'll apply to all instruments albeit more pertinent to EC as it really is a note that gets in the way. Especially regarding the fluency of the progression.

Playing this G as a simple unslurred semibreve [and then momentarily reinserting it as part of the glissando] makes the progression astronomically easier on EC.

The progression necessitates 'fall into place fingering' as a priority.

However, I'm going to persevere with the notation as written and 'mind my way' as it were. It's not the first time I've seen this [slip-up?] in notation.

The reason I think it's not a slip-up here is because of the punning one might say! [almost there...!]

ps above strikeout due to oversite - there's actually no slur line leading from the low treble G as previously thought. This means I can now focus on an uninterrupted glissando, yipee

Edited by kevin toner, 25 May 2012 - 03:51 PM.

[kevin toner]

More progress being experienced, even yet, en-route to fully achieving Blake's "MoY", without doctoring nothing other than raising the occasional note (an octave) into my range.

Inter Alia gaining more comfort from very few final fingering tweaks, there is one last hitch deserving mention on my Curious Notation 'Hall of Fame'!

This here is where Blake/Razaf's notation transcriber has decided to put a G in the way of a (full octave) glissando between Bb & D, i.e. at "Mind" and "Way" in the verses, which we of course must "mind", excuse the [transcriber's] pun.

I've mentioned a few puns already from the perspective of an EC player, but here is one that'll apply to all instruments albeit more pertinent to EC as it really is a note that gets in the way. Especially regarding the fluency of the progression.

Playing this G as a simple unslurred semibreve [and then momentarily reinserting it as part of the glissando] makes the progression astronomically easier on EC.

The progression necessitates 'fall into place fingering' as a priority.

However, I'm going to persevere with the notation as written and 'mind my way' as it were. It's not the first time I've seen this [slip-up?] in notation.

The reason I think it's not a slip-up here is because of the punning one might say! [almost there...!]

ps above strikeout due to oversight - there's actually no slur line leading from the low treble G as previously thought. This means I can now focus on an uninterrupted glissando, yippee

Actually, there's occasionally a grey area where transcribers’ sheet music may imply slurs or otherwise. I've had a quick glance through my book to find such an ambiguity of where a slur might be implied as follows below. I believe such to be more common for the likes of chorded 3rds etc. where one slur curve suffices. Usually the crotchet tails are strung in the same direction for this. With semibreves however there might be greater interpretation required upon the reader.

Thank goodness the aforementioned G note on "MoY" is not such an example, which really would have had an additional curve [slur] line to avoid such ambiguity, but one example that might require reader interpretation is here at "I Only Have Eyes for You" aptly at the words "Find" and "Blun-ders" where indeed the semibreve slurring for B&D is rather vague.

I've however, had another quick swatch through the book and discovered an unusually scrupulous example of slur curve applications, not merely here on every single note of a 4 note chord at "come out!___" in the score of "Ida! Sweet as Apple Cider", but throughout the score’s entirety whether or not the chord note tails have all been joined in the same direction.

Something therefore to make the studying of scores a little more interesting...!

Edited by kevin toner, 25 May 2012 - 04:56 PM.

[kevin toner]

...Further to the above quoted update, please note that Blake in fact gives the EC player another instance of this kind of slurring technique. Yes, I was travelling here rather than slurring previously, who can blame me, as I cross these veritable stepping stones to the hardest slurred notes in the song!

This is basically the most luscious part of the [already very luscious] chorus bridge - so it happens x4 if you sing both verses (rare). Most post-war jazz renditions ignore the verse, but multiply the No. of times the chorus is played, sometimes on a per soloist basis across all the instrumentalists, as so provoking is the piece.

Firstly, before revealing the instance (deserving of a curious notes entry as here) Blake demands [of EC] a slight sharing of the index finger pad on the preceding rhyming bar at Years - nothing to worry.

I've circled this 3 button move above. It's a sequenced double-slur that occurs within the extended semi-breve "Tears". The index finger has to move thus [G4,Db4,C4].

G4 to Db4 (slur) is achieved by doing the same trick as previously mentioned in my recent post at #15, i.e. by using the face of the nail then pivoting onto the next button, however this is a [much more difficult (non-5th)] diagonal instance as you'll see from your layouts, but not to worry as this half of the bridge has been slowed by Blake.

Not out the woods yet - it's a 3 button slur!

Db4 to C4(middle C) is then achieved by then rotating the index exactly horizontally onto its side.

So that happens to be the final difficulty, not without tears______!

For those who'd prefer to travel between these 3 buttons, be my guest, as when I was doing this I hadn't noticed the travelling due to the surrounding chords and because of the agile independence of the index's ability to [as my Granddad called it] cover-up quickly.

All this recent schooling'll put me back merely probably a week. I never thought in my wildest dreams that I'd be articulating this number as stipulated within the tempos.

Eubie Blake - did your transcriber have an EC?

A couple of more supporting observations having practised this sequential slur today eagerly! Yes, it's the way to go, the right choice, but expect 'Tears' unless two things:

1), if you wish this instance to be as easy as the single [A to D] example at the 'ries-of' minim, then expect your index finger's first joint-to-tip length to be a couple more mm greater than the typical inch like mine's; AND/OR

2) faithfully accent the first two minims of the index finger's passage.

The latter removes any noticeable silence from having too short an index finger, especially if applied with extra gusto.

It's not a problem that the last/next note isn't accented by the transcriber since rotating the index onto its side on to the middle C is an effortless operation.

[I therefore ask Blake again: Was his transcriber an EC player(?) I think there might be other examples out there too as suspected during my earlier treble clef endeavours]

I do wish I'd had both advantages (1 & 2) under my belt, but will have to settle for simply the latter, like most players I suspect.

I expect the difficulty to ease with practise! Again, thanks to Blake's transcriber for slowing the phrasing down here!

I believe that finger length develops through learning piano during 'growing-up', if not an old-wife's-tail.

Something extra to dwell on for the hawk eyed among you:

One more observation on this remarkable move, which might lead some of you to [probably romantically] suspect Eubie was his own transcriber - as McHugh was, is as follows based on coincidental images of fingering poses.

[It wouldn't surprise me as there's a certain Blake-ish feel in the formation of the sheet music transcription!

watch here for his own rendition!]

Look closely at his LHS index on this famous 1969 double album lp cover here. It's the only finger he's playing in the ideal pivot position - which is the very finger that has to pull off this very move.

Also if you happen to have Jasen's "Tin Pan Alley" book, which I viewed today at the library you will see a [more updated] similar pose in the other direction at p47 where he's doing the exact same pivot action on a black G# (G#4) thereabouts with his albeit RHS index finger this time.

Add to this a typical shot of his fingers spreadeagled (e.g. as here) and you have a person I'd be envious of ergo with that extra couple of mm or so of finger length.

OK: maybe I've gone too far this time!

[kevin toner]

...Further to the above quoted update, please note that Blake in fact gives the EC player another instance of this kind of slurring technique. Yes, I was travelling here rather than slurring previously, who can blame me, as I cross these veritable stepping stones to the hardest slurred notes in the song!

This is basically the most luscious part of the [already very luscious] chorus bridge - so it happens x4 if you sing both verses (rare). Most post-war jazz renditions ignore the verse, but multiply the No. of times the chorus is played, sometimes on a per soloist basis across all the instrumentalists, as so provoking is the piece.

Firstly, before revealing the instance (deserving of a curious notes entry as here) Blake demands [of EC] a slight sharing of the index finger pad on the preceding rhyming bar at Years - nothing to worry.

I've circled this 3 button move above. It's a sequenced double-slur that occurs within the extended semi-breve "Tears". The index finger has to move thus [G4,Db4,C4].

G4 to Db4 (slur) is achieved by doing the same trick as previously mentioned in my recent post at #15, i.e. by using the face of the nail then pivoting onto the next button, however this is a [much more difficult (non-5th)] diagonal instance as you'll see from your layouts, but not to worry as this half of the bridge has been slowed by Blake.

Not out the woods yet - it's a 3 button slur!

Db4 to C4(middle C) is then achieved by then rotating the index exactly horizontally onto its side.

So that happens to be the final difficulty, not without tears______!

For those who'd prefer to travel between these 3 buttons, be my guest, as when I was doing this I hadn't noticed the travelling due to the surrounding chords and because of the agile independence of the index's ability to [as my Granddad called it] cover-up quickly.

All this recent schooling'll put me back merely probably a week. I never thought in my wildest dreams that I'd be articulating this number as stipulated within the tempos.

Eubie Blake - did your transcriber have an EC?

A couple of more supporting observations having practised this sequential slur today eagerly! Yes, it's the way to go, the right choice, but expect 'Tears' unless two things:

1), if you wish this instance to be as easy as the single [A to D] example at the 'ries-of' minim, then expect your index finger's first joint-to-tip length to be a couple more mm greater than the typical inch like mine's; AND/OR

2) faithfully accent the first two minims of the index finger's passage.

The latter removes any noticeable silence from having too short an index finger, especially if applied with extra gusto.

It's not a problem that the last/next note isn't accented by the transcriber since rotating the index onto its side on to the middle C is an effortless operation.

[I therefore ask Blake again: Was his transcriber an EC player(?) I think there might be other examples out there too as suspected during my earlier treble clef endeavours]

I do wish I'd had both advantages (1 & 2) under my belt, but will have to settle for simply the latter, like most players I suspect.

I expect the difficulty to ease with practise! Again, thanks to Blake's transcriber for slowing the phrasing down here!

I believe that finger length develops through learning piano during 'growing-up', if not an old-wife's-tail.

Something extra to dwell on for the hawk eyed among you:

One more observation on this remarkable move, which might lead some of you to [probably romantically] suspect Eubie was his own transcriber - as McHugh was, is as follows based on coincidental images of fingering poses.

[It wouldn't surprise me as there's a certain Blake-ish feel in the formation of the sheet music transcription!

watch here for his own rendition!]

Look closely at his LHS index on this famous 1969 double album lp cover here. It's the only finger he's playing in the ideal pivot position - which is the very finger that has to pull off this very move.

Also if you happen to have Jasen's "Tin Pan Alley" book, which I viewed today at the library you will see a [more updated] similar pose in the other direction at p47 where he's doing the exact same pivot action on a black G# (G#4) thereabouts with his albeit RHS index finger this time.

Add to this a typical shot of his fingers spreadeagled (e.g. as here) and you have a person I'd be envious of ergo with that extra couple of mm or so of finger length.

OK: maybe I've gone too far this time!

Note that in the above topic as underlined and bolded..., I should have also mentioned that with Blake's finger spread and poses as described, evidenced on both hands, he might have been able to easily adjust to playing his composition on either a T-T or standard B-T notwithstanding that the middle C is on the LHS of a T-T and on the RHS of a B-T.

I'd therefore presume (going on these images) that he'd easily have been able to: 1) reach to all the keys shifted up a row on a [standard 56k] B-T; and 2) demonstrate index finger tip-to-joint length and crucial pivoting control on whatever hand.

He'd also have had no problem switching/swapping between the B-T/T-T layouts because of his musicality.

There's of course absolutely no way that Blake [or whoever "MoY"'s transciber was] dabbled as an ECist as we'd have surely known about it by now.

All these observations on "MoY" are, romantically speaking, simply coincidences worth mentioning to help understand the pressing requirements upon the EC. Perhaps it's an example of God (which my Granddad often instead referred to as "a supreme" that indeed must exist) working in mysterious ways.

Edited by kevin toner, 27 May 2012 - 01:18 PM.

[kevin toner]

Further to the last post:

The “Mind” “Way” glissando is the one major final difficulty that I’m trying to overcome.

Something’s been throwing me with this and I’ve discovered what.

Firstly, I’m looking at both of the copies I have to double check that there’s practically no difference. A mere couple of things difference tells me it’s fairly authentic. Great!

[I wish that guy – if it’s him - will stop the thumpy floor bounce it’s back during shop hours in the normal way, great to have had a 1 day break in addition to the Mondays when they’re closed. Good the shop’s closed now – so no thumps, can write in peace now hoping the upstair flat doesn’t start rattling my cage next!]

Right!

I already put this in my notation curiosities gallery because I thought a G3 was getting in the way during an octave length gliss between a Bb2 and D3.

However, I’ve rediscovered that there is an actual ‘mind way’ implication, but it’s a psychological one involving a progression using the third finger while the middle is engaged on a semibreve.

As mentioned previously that player’s share a lot in common regarding third finger weaknesses, this brings the conversation with Ransom full circle. I’ve rescanned it here.

During the course of the afternoon I tried in vain to make this gliss smooth in vain. My finger tips on the LHS are actually blackened due to repeating the gliss over and over!

I can just about do it when I’m running up/down like legato scale practice – nothing too complex here. The difficulty is pulling it off during song.

2 reasons why this is difficult: 1) the re-memorisation process; and 2) because of that aforementioned lack of independency of the third finger, in this case while the middle is engaged and while the pinkie is progressing as many notes as each of the other fingers – this tells me that my third will need to get to know my brain better without the aid of the adjacent middle and pinkie. Ironically and furthermore, the third on the RHS progresses well with the more distanced index with next to no trouble whatsoever.

This therefore proves that the third struggles if the brain is heavily working the pinky and middle.

So ‘mind way’ indeed – nothing another 200 hours won’t sort (?)

So to conclude: there is 1) a psychological [third finger] difficulty at “mind way”, which I’m hoping can be overcome with time; 2) a horrendously prescribed difficulty at “Tears”, which can be eventually overcome [I can now do it – having an inch is okay] by adopting Blake’s index finger technique albeit he’s a pianist curiously and of course by practise; and finally 3) one tremendously minor modification necessary at the word Spite unless you have an expensive 1930s Model 16.

Right: that’s my “Eubiesees” novel completed I think.

Maybe I’ve got Irish roots right enough, eh!

Edited by kevin toner, 02 June 2012 - 01:43 PM.

[kevin toner]

Further to the last post:

The “Mind” “Way” glissando is the one major final difficulty that I’m trying to overcome.

Something’s been throwing me and I’ve discovered what.

Firstly, I’m looking at both of the copies I have to double check that there’s practically no difference. A mere couple of things difference tells me it’s fairly authentic. Great!

[I wish that guy – if it’s him - will stop the thumpy floor bounce. It’s back during shop hours in the normal way, great to have had a 1 day break in addition to the Mondays when they’re closed. Good the shop’s closed now – so no thumps, can write in peace now hoping the upstair flat doesn’t start rattling my cage next!]

Right!

I already put this in my notation curiosities gallery because I thought a G3 was getting in the way during an octave length gliss between a Bb2 and D3.

However, I’ve rediscovered that there is an actual ‘mind way’ connotation, but it’s a psychological one involving a progression using the third finger while the middle is engaged on a semibreve.

As mentioned previously that player’s share a lot in common regarding third finger weaknesses, this brings the conversation with Ransom full circle. I’ve rescanned it here.

During the course of the afternoon I tried in vainly to make this gliss smooth. My finger tips on the LHS are actually blackened due to repeating the gliss over and over!

I can just about do it when I’m running up/down like legato scale practice – nothing too complex here. The difficulty is pulling it off during song.

2 reasons why this is difficult: 1) the re-memorisation process; and 2) because of that aforementioned lack of independency of the third finger, in this case while the middle is engaged and while the pinkie is progressing as many notes as each of the other fingers – this tells me that my third will need to get to know my brain better without the aid of the adjacent middle and pinkie. Ironically and furthermore, the third on the RHS progresses well with the more distanced index with next to no trouble whatsoever.

This therefore proves that the third struggles if the brain is heavily working the pinky and middle.

So ‘mind way’ indeed – nothing another 200 hours won’t sort (?)

So to conclude: there is 1) a psychological [third finger] difficulty at “mind way”, which I’m hoping can be overcome with time; 2) a horrendously prescribed difficulty at “Tears”, which can be eventually overcome [I can now do it – having an inch is okay] by adopting Blake’s index finger technique albeit he’s a pianist curiously and of course by practise; and finally 3) one tremendously minor modification necessary at the word Spite unless you have an expensive 1930s Model 16.

Right: that’s my “Eubiesees” novel completed I think.

Maybe I’ve got Irish roots after all, eh!

Edited by kevin toner, 02 June 2012 - 02:02 PM.

[kevin toner]

...However, I’ve rediscovered that there is an actual ‘mind way’ connotation, but it’s a psychological one involving a progression using the third finger while the middle is engaged on a semibreve.

As mentioned previously that player’s share a lot in common regarding third finger weaknesses, this brings the conversation with Ransom full circle. I’ve rescanned it here.

During the course of the afternoon I tried in vainly to make this gliss smooth. My finger tips on the LHS are actually blackened due to repeating the gliss over and over!

I can just about do it when I’m running up/down like legato scale practice – nothing too complex here. The difficulty is pulling it off during song.

2 reasons why this is difficult: 1) the re-memorisation process; and 2) because of that aforementioned lack of independency of the third finger, in this case while the middle is engaged and while the pinkie is progressing as many notes as each of the other fingers – this tells me that my third will need to get to know my brain better without the aid of the adjacent middle and pinkie. Ironically and furthermore, the third on the RHS progresses well with the more distanced index with next to no trouble whatsoever.

This therefore proves that the third struggles if the brain is heavily working the pinky and middle.

So ‘mind way’ indeed – nothing another 200 hours won’t sort (?)...

One more thing if you look at my above quoted underlined link regarding the fact that it's LHS work that involves the 'mind way' connotation:

You'll see a "L.H." prescribed.

OK, that's for Piano players, but for goodness sake, doesn't this get closer to my theory that this transcriber was an ECist at least esoterically speaking.

Here's a definition of L.H. from dolmetsch.com

LH, L.H., l.h. abbreviation of 'left hand' or linke Hand (German: left hand), indicating that specific notes are to be played by the left hand.

Mercury's famous L.H. in the very first bar of BoRHap spring to mind as a perfect little exemplar.

However, is it really necessary for pianists at the 'mind way' glissando in "Memories of You" to do a L.H.

[ps: If not, then it (imaginatively speaking) hints towards the esotericism of an ECist transcriber - something I've long contended as a romantic notion of course.]

Calling all Pianists

Edited by kevin toner, 02 June 2012 - 02:45 PM.

[kevin toner]

I may be wrong with this further observation as follows, which comes from the progress on the noise pollution front today, naturally. I've updated my post on the general discussion forum to this effect.

Not feeling persecuted on the NP front today has had an amazing psychological effect: as 1) I noticed my finger tips adeptly making contact, i.e. I think from having an increased sense of hand coordination due to being able to hear the instrument properly; and 2) I could anticipate that recording would be much easier without the need for headphones if it continues this way.

That said, I'm not rushing into a recording today, to capitalise! I'm still struggling with the LHS side of the difficult gliss despite massive improvements with it today, naturally of course.

As I've been able to hear my instrument clearly today and unabated I've noticed another possible sign that points towards the transcriber being an ECist, although again it's most probably in a romantic sense.

I'm referring to the way the dynamics are shaped, which appears to assist in the playing. Time will tell.

The only thing for me to worry about now, provided the area noise pollution remains unexacerbated (or in other words if my Hyperacusis stays off), is that of the instruments limitations in terms of servicing requirements. For example, near silent capability across all (not some) of the keys could improve I think with servicing. A servicing would undoubtedly in turn improve my chances of exploring dynamics.

When it comes time to record, I'll have to increase the bellow pressure enough generally so that no notes cut out during the quiet moments in the score...

[kevin toner]

So far, so good!

[occasional odours annoy, that all / Horrendous noise pollution (NP) during writing this (and during an assimilation experiment/exercise that I describe later – wow, crazy stuff!) was merely taxing my concentration on the assimilation exercise, i.e. even with my windows wide open, but fortunately couldn’t abate my concertina sound since whatever was causing the ‘exacerbated’ NP appears to have remained off for a 2nd day - cool. / Perhaps like moving from Alcatraz to a luxury prison, one might say! ]

okay, I wondered earlier how it might be to perhaps do "Memories of You" with a model 16 B-T, which goes down to F2 (1 extra tone lower than a standard), i.e. same layout as mines, but with tones shifted up by one row horizontally thereby introducing additional bass notes.

now, Judgement calls!

A model 16 B-T’s low F - as occurs at several points in the score - needn't be raised generally or in its sharpened instances at the 2nd bar in the chorus.

Raising an F (or F#) on this particular score is however going to be just as relevant for the 16B-T as explained later. This stumbles on the fact that, in the score, the 16B-T has to raise very prevalent E2s,D2s,C2s as per the T-T anyway.

I now argue why I will most certainly not be transferring this song onto B-T should I ever acquire one.

In fact I fear that a 16B-T will suit very few songs in my 1930s repertoire (excepting Roberton) when compared to my T-T. So looks like I’m going to be a happy man – instrument wise. I’m sure the 16B-T will however be necessitated on occasion. I’ll let the forum know when and with what.

To comprehend the transcriber (to “Moy”) being imaginably a Concertinist: you first have to imagine an ECist not an ACist; you then have to refine this to T-T ECist not a B-T ECist. Let me explain:-

If you had the 16B-T (i.e. with range down to F2), you’d have to raise the majority of F2s & F#2s anyway because:

1) the first 3 bars of the 3 chorus phrases ascend from the root bass key in the 1st bar, i.e. they do not drop at the 2nd... Otherwise e.g. "Wak-ing Skies, At sunrise, Ev’ry sunset,.." will become foreboding mid-way when going down rather than up: certainly not a Eubie intention. Had Razaf swapped Sunset for sunrise, then maybe Blake would have thought otherwise.

2) likewise, the last phrase of the verses at e.g. “All around me - you still remain, - Wonder why fate - should be so un –kind:___” where a drop in tone would reinforce the pessimism at this point since the start of the phrase is outside the B-T’s range and would therefore have to start the phrasing on a high note. That said, perhaps that last line (lyrically) can do with a pessimist’s touch! Count me out!

This likewise applies to a large extent on the with G2 as well.

As explained earlier in the discussion, it’s hardly any trouble on the T-T to raise the G, ergo at that only necessarily slight adjustment (practically unnoticeable) at the word ‘Spite’.

However, one advantage of the ‘B-T ECist’ over the ‘T-T ECist’ is in fact merely for a split nano second when a naturalised A2 must be struck staccato just before launching into the aforementioned last phrase of the verse as quoted at 2) above. I admit having [ps: previously] felt an ever so slight injustice by raising this flash staccato A2.

In fact, with second thoughts, there’s absolutely nothing to confess about:

This flash A2 should actually be raised to acknowledge the drop down to launch the above key phrase (again at) “All around me you – you still remain,...” as repeated at “And your spell keeps – holding me fast,...”

On Piano it’s not an issue of course!

$64k Question: - Is therefore losing the 'Raise-F' (RAZ-AF, hee hee) such an advantage?

Before analysing the ‘Mem-o Ries-of’ bar, which can be played without a ‘raised F’ without detriment to the overall phrase; and ultimately before I get back into my usual practise, although I think I’ll begin that normally tomorrow i.e. due to the taxation on my mind caused by this explanation and the pointless noises [musical works] coming from certain idle site staff across the road, [nevermind, you’ve already heard of a previously horrendous and absurd example]:

Here's what I explored this morning,

I pretended that I had a model 16 B-T and therefore played key phrases by shifting up onto the next row of keys horizontally.

This meant playing an imaginary Bb2 in its proper [not modified] location and engaging an imaginary G2 occasionally when necessary.

It wasn’t a problem on the intro bar as varied in the chorus, notwithstanding that I’ve advised against dropping down to such notes here unless using Piano as this is definitely a T-T rather than B-T song!

As an aside, much greater simulation [to the T-T] would be achievable by retaining a Bb2 in the exact same location as explained later. Notwithstanding of course that this is n/a on this particular song.

Other songs might well invoke the need for lower notes than my T-T can offer – I cannot comment at this stage. I will however describe the technicality (as follows in square brackets) before concluding on my findings in respect of trialling the aforementioned imaginary layout i.e. of a model 16 B-T overlayed upon a T-T, upon the ‘Mem-o Ries-of’ bar.

[Having the Bb2 in the modified position (in a mod16 B-T) would mean replacing the G#2 rather than a D#3 as with my T-T meaning there’d then be a duplicate Bb2 on both of the lowest extreme corners of the LHS – now that wouldn’t be the end of the world, would it, albeit it might be impractical technically for makers ? It would mean losing a duplicate Ab2(G#2) in the same way that an Eb3 duplicate (D#2) is lost on the T-T, which is a slightly bigger worry given that in major keys a G# is much more prevalent than a G# - that said an Ab is not necessary anywhere on “MoY” (in the key of Eb) notwithstanding the aforementioned momentary naturalised A. If all you had to do was swap the reeds to suit the song, like a guitarist changing tunings, then you could have the best of both worlds, albeit that’d depend on being doable from makers or concertina craftsmen ]

Okay, so what about the ‘Mem-o Ries-of’ bar, then, which entails playing an actual imaginary F2 rather than where it would be as a Raised F?

No problem, it merely entails one finger swap during a note, unless (again as above) the G#2 button position was modified with a Bb2, which would naturally give me greater familiarity and choice. Again, An Ab (G#2) is not asked for in the score – so it wouldn’t be detrimental to have a duplicate Bb2. The benefit in having a duplicate Bb2 - exactly where I have one already on the T-T - would simply be to offer greater choice although not as crucial to do this as it is with the T-T.

Apologies if my editing [on what is a tough subject] has strayed into any incoherence!

I’ll cast an eye and edit over it if and where necessary over time, if I get any sorry!

Edited by kevin toner, 05 June 2012 - 07:59 AM.

[kevin toner]

...Perhaps like moving from Alcatraz to a luxury prison, one might say!...

Back in Alkatraz, I'm afraid!

I could near die when I tried to practise the "Memories of You" stumbling blocks

I'm getting warmer though perhaps to what might be causing it. Something appears to be triggering a possible Hyperacusis in my [historically troubled] left ear. Tried to call for an ENT appointment, but as you can imagine: not a good time here in the UK to be calling for help! Will have to wait till tomorrow!

When I tried to practice in the zone without the floor thumps (oh: these back too!), i.e. well away from the hollow thin kitchen area ceiling, I appear to notice one of two things: although one of these has stopped of late, i.e. 1) a hissing noise from the plumbing - way too much for 1 person unless they're regularly bathing and bottling water for sale, which has thankfully not occurred today; and the other thing that did occur - the usual rattle-your-cage noises from above. With my ear to the party wall: it also appears that the neighbouring office fit-out works are still ongoing. With thumps from [undoutedly?] below : I don't know who to point the finger to!

Maybe I'm getting closer when I suspect that a combination of noises are mixing with the site noises and triggering the Hyperacusis.

When I put my ear to the wall: my left hear heard a drone on top of the background noise, which my right wasn't picking up. During practise, I could sense that my RHS ear was feeling like [to over-exaggerate] a bucket was over it.

Boy was I feeling sad and lost when I tried to apprehend reality coming back. I'm feeling better in that I'm sure it's Hyperacusis. If it is: one remedy I think is to overdose on the sounds you don't like so that you can get used to them. I try to play in the slightly duller acoustics area below the offending creaks/bumps and hisses (and closest to where the hum of the restaurant's fans are); but then the creaks etc. stop so I don't get the benefit, while I'm left with a left ear that won't settle. I think its something that's too subtle for hearing tests to pick up. Fingers crossed that the specialists can diagnose this!

If hyperacusis: will record the offending noises and sleep with them through the night - as if that'll help eh! as the minute I start practising I'll lose focus again! Although maybe not and perhaps worth a try.

EN&T tomorrow...!

Ultimately, I think I'm going to have to mike up the concertina and blast out. However, when this sympton has been at it's worst, the louder you play the louder the distracting noise gets if it's for example traffic revs - i.e. to the point the concertina sound becomes unenjoyable.

So be it: if my hyperacusis doesn't settle, my amp's coming out!

3 other technicalities that are bothering me - more for the technical forum: is that 1) my concertina is not fully serviced; and 2) I'll be on my third attempt at trying to restore the clarity of a struggling reed that's tongue is difficult to centre (it stabilised for a while after my 2nd attempt at it); and 3) another reed is characteristically making a strange transition clicky noise going between low and higher volume, which I've had before on occasion - I'll just have to tweak things probably.

Signing off for now - please don't hesitate to add any comments before I return with answers; or other topics, thanks!

Edited by kevin toner, 05 June 2012 - 12:19 PM.

[kevin toner]

2 things to report early this morning:

both a music score observation ; and a noise trouble!

I'll post on the music thing in a moment, but will update on my ear trouble:

It seems to have settled this morning, although I've been hearing something boomy underneath some nice quite background silence as I lay awake wondering what the boomy stuff is.

Now up on my feet: I put my ears to that partition walling in my practise space (open plan LR/kitchen) that appears to absorb outside noises and strange vibrations. This time things have reversed: my LHS hears little, while my RHS detects much more vibration. All I heard in the partition and part wall was hammering within the building somewhere, why between 7-8 AM - is there any end to this remarkable level of [presumably fit-out] activity (?)

So my LHS must be settled. The instrument's not sounding great at the moment perhaps due to humidity and hearing; although it's faired well in recent times during high humidity at times, probably when just out the box.

Anyway: to give an idea of my current LHS trouble, which I might have forced at bay through doing something; perhaps a remedy(?)

First: put a finger in either ear and you should detect a rumbling noise i.e. the vibration from the finger closing over the mike as it were and trapping the sound; alternatively flap your ear round to do the same in effect.

This is the same noise, which was too hard to explain in words, that I'd feel in my left ear if I pressed down onto around the top of the jaw beside the ear. Not on the RHS though.

However, this morning, I pushed hard at this area for a few prods and found that from slightly afterwards it has stopped happening.

Strange eh, but might be something positive to tell ENT when I get my appt.

Before I post on the music score observation: just one more thing - perhaps worth sharing - on what might be related to that strange vibration (when prodding the aforementioned zone below the LHS ear/upper jaw) i.e. simulating the closed up ear. - One night in circa 2005? I had the strangest nightmare come out of body experience in this very pinpoint of an area under my left ear.

This was when the downstairs shop appeared to be drilling, just before dawn, at the outside door, perhaps after a break in I thought half asleep when suddenly I felt drilling going right through the top of my jaw/lower ear, but I didn't want to move in case I disturbed the path it was wanting to take as it felt like I was in an operation of some kind rather than being under attack. It really did feel incredibly genuine: I anxiously played dead and then probably fell back asleep. Because of the incredibly real sensation of this, I've made sure that my door cannot be breached without my knowledge ever since. I do feel a little lump or cist moving around that point when I prod around - which I of course have imagined being a implant ever since the event, since the RHS is free of one, i.e. romantically speaking of course, having seen too many Jason Borne's and Jas. Bonds etc. for my own good.

It's surely the tiniest of cartilage nodules that sometimes appear between muscle junctions (?)

[Before anyone asks, No I'm not going to tell this to medical staff. I've learned my lesson there. Once with slight blood weeping from this ear before and after a long 36hole golf outing, which was at the height of my troubles (in ca2009) with the downstairs shop vibrations/hums/bass frequencies etc., (which I thought were so powerful as to be possibly brain damaging) that I thought was associated and said this to the nurse: the A&E nurse asked my if I'd mind seeing a psychiatrist to which I agreed, as the blood was merely from an unhealed spot apparently - how was I to know that. I've since had a brain scan that's came back in the clear - which I think I've mentioned in a previous post - but I fought to get away from these people as it wasn't doing my job prospects any good being on a medication (anti-psychotics) that don't work for me unless I'm happy to be docile for the rest of my life!

So yes: I definitely won't be saying anything romantically notional about my nightmare. It's a tiny biological nodule, simply that, which I felt compelled to write about given that this is the first time I've prodded there and got a successful vibration free result - yippee! I did feel that the aforementioned (almost silent) boomy noises that I heard as I lie awake, during and after prodding, were almost simulating the expectant vibration funnily enough - whether Hyperacusis or Tinnitus I wouldn't know. Diagnosis soon I hope!]

Now back to music again!

Edited by kevin toner, 06 June 2012 - 03:17 AM.

[kevin toner]

...Actually, there's occasionally a grey area where transcribers’ sheet music may imply slurs or otherwise. I've had a quick glance through my book to find such an ambiguity of where a slur might be implied as follows below. I believe such to be more common for the likes of chorded 3rds etc. where one slur curve suffices. Usually the crotchet tails are strung in the same direction for this. With semibreves however there might be greater interpretation required upon the reader.

Thank goodness the aforementioned G note on "MoY" is not such an example, which really would have had an additional curve [slur] line to avoid such ambiguity, but one example that might require reader interpretation is here at "I Only Have Eyes for You" aptly at the words "Find" and "Blun-ders" where indeed the semibreve slurring for B&D is rather vague.

I've however, had another quick swatch through the book and discovered an unusually scrupulous example of slur curve applications, not merely here on every single note of a 4 note chord at "come out!___" in the score of "Ida! Sweet as Apple Cider", but throughout the score’s entirety whether or not the chord note tails have all been joined in the same direction.

Something therefore to make the studying of scores a little more interesting...!

To continue this discussion here as most online music theory sites are far too basic.

On this link here, cast your eye over 1) the first and last treble chord of the 1st bar; and 2) likewise at the word "why".

What do you see?

Yes there is a distinction between tail direction that is contrary to convention.

My explanation is that the notes that are tailed down are not part of the slur - this is very good news for resonant metal ended ECs, which tend to sustain more than wood ended instruments, ergo making for a less mushy rendition, which I'm sure Blake would have condoned for even pianos let alone metal ended concertinas.

Yet at the start of the verse you'll see all tails in the same direction here signifying all notes to be slurred. I hope you all concur as this, in my mind, improves the scores.

It's not just "Memories of You" that goes beyond convention, most scores in my songbook do likewise, which again is fantastic news esp. for us metal ended enthusiasts.

Note that the transcriber is also generally unconventional in the voice/vocal stave, i.e. with a reluctance to put tails down when expected. Why might this be, I wonder. Laziness perhaps? Calling all vocalists/musicologists Wrong here as striked out, as the transcriber has simply pointed all Bs upward, which of course can go up or down (according to basic theory). In this instance I suppose this gives a better indication to the vocalist whether the notes will be generally high or otherwise as is the case here.

Oh, almost forgot: this latter point (on vocals) is important here on this particular score (on "Memories of You") as the high notes can come as somewhat of a surprise even without reading the notation: so much so that this song has historically gone unaccompanied by vocalists in whatever key.

Edited by kevin toner, 06 June 2012 - 04:17 AM.

[kevin toner]

...Actually, there's occasionally a grey area where transcribers’ sheet music may imply slurs or otherwise. I've had a quick glance through my book to find such an ambiguity of where a slur might be implied as follows below. I believe such to be more common for the likes of chorded 3rds etc. where one slur curve suffices. Usually the crotchet tails are strung in the same direction for this. With semibreves however there might be greater interpretation required upon the reader.

Thank goodness the aforementioned G note on "MoY" is not such an example, which really would have had an additional curve [slur] line to avoid such ambiguity, but one example that might require reader interpretation is here at "I Only Have Eyes for You" aptly at the words "Find" and "Blun-ders" where indeed the semibreve slurring for B&D is rather vague.

I've however, had another quick swatch through the book and discovered an unusually scrupulous example of slur curve applications, not merely here on every single note of a 4 note chord at "come out!___" in the score of "Ida! Sweet as Apple Cider", but throughout the score’s entirety whether or not the chord note tails have all been joined in the same direction.

Something therefore to make the studying of scores a little more interesting...!

To continue this discussion here as most online music theory sites are far too basic.

On this link here, cast your eye over 1) the first and last treble chord of the 1st bar; and 2) likewise at the word "why".

What do you see?

Yes there is a distinction between tail direction that is contrary to convention.

My explanation is that the notes that are tailed down are not part of the slur - this is very good news for resonant metal ended ECs, which tend to sustain more than wood ended instruments, ergo making for a less mushy rendition, which I'm sure Blake would have condoned for even pianos let alone metal ended concertinas.

Yet at the start of the verse you'll see all tails in the same direction here signifying all notes to be slurred. I hope you all concur as this, in my mind, improves the scores.

It's not just "Memories of You" that goes beyond convention, most scores in my songbook do likewise, which again is fantastic news esp. for us metal ended enthusiasts.

Note that the transcriber is also generally unconventional in the voice/vocal stave, i.e. with a reluctance to put tails down when expected. Why might this be, I wonder. Laziness perhaps? Calling all vocalists/musicologists Wrong here as striked out, as the transcriber has simply pointed all Bs upward, which of course can go up or down (according to basic theory). In this instance I suppose this gives a better indication to the vocalist whether the notes will be generally high or otherwise as is the case here.

Oh, almost forgot: this latter point (on vocals) is important here on this particular score (on "Memories of You") as the high notes can come as somewhat of a surprise even without reading the notation: so much so that this song has historically been largely unaccompanied by vocalists in whatever key.

Apology for double post, I was merely updating the above word/s as bolded

Edited by kevin toner, 06 June 2012 - 04:34 AM.

[kevin toner]

I keep saying I’m almost there with “Memories of You” as I plan to record it again.

Please forgive me. I’ve discovered another finger weakness matter, which might like some 3rd fingering be a common trait.

I’ve been struggling with an instantaneous pinky travel to the 2nd arpeggiated chord in the chorus bridge.

I can’t overcome this (at moderato tempo) no matter how long I try to practice the difficulty out. I hit the target 25%; 50% finding the button side; & 25% missing it completely.

I’ve therefore adopted another approach: ergo to substitute with the 3rd, which necessitates a Blake-ian pivot using my index momentarily onto 2 buttons on the following note. It’s not the only place in the score where such a Blake-ian move is called for.

Now back to why I’ve changed to this:-

My pinkie struggled to find the low C (2nd column RHS and therefore incidentally one of the lowest buttons on the T-T) by travelling it from the outer row Bb (4th column RHS). This is because the change has to be instant and the pinkie mechanics (for me) aren’t capable of it while thumbs are fully through. It wouldn’t be a problem on a B-T where the low C is raised a row. I know this as there hadn’t been a problem by playing experimentally a 5th (or row) up.

Furthermore, I use the pinky for a similar action on the 1st bar of the verse (at the lowest row on the LHS) and it’s no problem. So an extra row down (which the RHS has) is where the breaking point is for me (on this particular pinky action) and so I will be rememorizing the problem chord/bar the other aforementioned way.

I now know that for a T-T I can be expecting too much of the pinkie to do such [travelling] gymnastics on and off the confines of the low C & C#. I will be substituting any more of these that I find on other songs with a 3rd (ring) finger.

Funnily as per a previous post, I conversely found that I had to substitute the other way round (opting for pinkie instead) for the preceding arpeggiated chord that launches the bridge due to the weakness of the 3rd finger. The mechanics of movement are quite different despite being the same button.

My endurances (on using the wrong fingers) prior to arriving at these 2 lessons were not quite in vain as I’ve really strengthened up my pinkie & 3rd fingers as a result.

I must now familiarise on the chosen method. It’s a million times easier, actually anyway, nothwithstanding the re-memorisation required.

I’ve also discovered that my laptop is terrible for sound recording: so for the time being I’ll have to settle for the mono compact camera as before, but will try converting it to a reasonable HQ when I get round to recording.

I’m now almost entirely comfortable with all the chosen methods and shan’t be long in settling in.

One more thing though, although not being a great problem. As I mentioned on the other bass clef practise post, ‘notes-or-clef specific’ accents (excluding staccato/legato) cannot be produced on concertina like piano. This is largely not a big issue as I can see from my 30s songbook, but on “MoY” 50% of bars on the verse are affected to the extent that layering will be necessary to record an entirely Blake-ian rendition.

Layering is something I fear we shouldn’t be shying away from as there's different qualities to be found in playing clefs separately. Duetting is another way round it.

Blake indeed forces us on “MoY” to treat the clefs as separate entities on 50% of the verses...

I wonder how many pianists partake though.

I’m sure for this 50% of the bars that if Blake heard the 2 clefs being played separately in EC by 2 players (one basically vamping) he’d be glad that his score was shaped in this way.

Edited by kevin toner, 01 July 2012 - 10:41 AM.