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Amboyna TT on eBay


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#1 SteveS

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 02:00 PM

Amboyna TT for sale on eBay - s/n 26050 - looks very much like the one that sold for over £5k a few months ago. Is it the same one?

Looks like it needs some serious repairs to the woodwork.

Ed. and what other problems lurk beneath the externals?
Ed.^2 £170 for postage!!

Edited by SteveS, 18 April 2012 - 06:44 PM.


#2 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 03:47 PM

Looks like the same instrument. I do not read Portugese but does it say that it was recently sold for 5400 pounds but the sale fell through for some reason, possibly because it was not in good enough condition to warrant the sale price and was thus returned?
Could be a lovely instrument but £5k+ is a lot of money to sport out for a ' goose in a sack'.

Edited by Geoff Wooff, 18 April 2012 - 03:47 PM.


#3 Ron Wilson

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:27 PM

He's selling it "for parts or not working" so there must be more repairs needed than just the cosmetic ones. Some fabulously wealthy concertina angel should buy her up and put things right. Terrible shame to let such a gem deteriorate into rubbish for want of a caring owner -- but what a financial commitment. Does 64 buttons imply a tenor-extended treble? Must have been an awesome instrument in her day, and still breathtaking to look at even in her neglected condition.

#4 Greg Jowaisas

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 05:46 PM

If memory serves the winneing bidder of the previous sale was Chris Algar. I remember the winning bid being equivalent to $8000 USD

Chris is fairly fearless in his pursuit of high end instruments as long as he thinks he can make a profit. It wouild be very interesting to ask him why the sale fell through.

Greg

Edited by Greg Jowaisas, 19 April 2012 - 05:42 AM.


#5 Chris Drinkwater

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 08:26 PM

Here's the link to the original discussion about this concertina. Chris Algar was the winning bidder and has obviously rejected it because he found out it needs a lot of work doing to it to restore it and its present condition doesn't warrant the £5,400 he paid for it. So, the seller has got it back again and is re-adverstising it. My approximate interpretation of translation of the Portugese, is as follows: The concertina is the same one that was sold previously, however the purchaser found that the amount that he bid (5400 pounds),was too much, having raised with me that there were problems with it and returned the concertina. The concertina has some defects in the wood and in the veneer in the wood of amboyna. Some reeds are broken and and there is some rust present. To Summarise, the concertina is used and restoration is needed. It will be sent well-packed in an aluminum case and with insurance on the final value of the auction. Bank transference also accepted.

It's definitely worth restoring and if Chris Algar was prepared to pay £5,400 for it originally, sight unseen, then it's got to worth at least half that, unrestored.

Chris

#6 SteveS

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:39 PM

Some reeds are broken and and there is some rust present.

Given the way he was abusing playing it the last time around, it's hardly surprising there are broken reeds.

Edited by SteveS, 18 April 2012 - 09:40 PM.


#7 JimLucas

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:28 AM

Some reeds are broken and and there is some rust present.

Given the way he was abusing playing it the last time around, it's hardly surprising there are broken reeds.

Disagree.

I don't think it should be possible to break reeds of that quality simply by playing it (too) hard. And I believe the seller said that it had only recently come into his possession. So I suspect the abuse/neglect occurred over a longer period, either while in the possession of the former owner (player?) or in subsequent storage.

I agree that it's a terrible shame that it has deteriorated to its present condition.

Edited by JimLucas, 19 April 2012 - 05:41 AM.


#8 JimLucas

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:41 AM

Does 64 buttons imply a tenor-extended treble?

Assuming it's a tenor-treble -- i.e., C below middle C as the lowest note, -- then yes. That's what mine is (though ebony, not amboyna)... 4½ octaves up to a very high G.

#9 JimLucas

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:07 AM

It's definitely worth restoring and if Chris Algar was prepared to pay £5,400 for it originally, sight unseen, then it's got to worth at least half that, unrestored.

I wonder.

Though it would take some expert work, the woodwork definitely looks like it could be fully restored. I'm wondering, though, whether the reeds are capable of being restored to a condition worthy of the rest of the instrument. If many reeds -- not necessarily just broken ones -- would need replacement, they would almost certainly have to be newly made by one of today's few reed makers, and that could well be the deal breaker. And if that's the case, then I think even the new starting price is too high.

If I could get it for a low enough price, though, I wonder if I wouldn't be tempted to have the rest restored and swap in the reeds from my own ebony-ended 64-button tenor-treble.

#10 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:16 AM

It's definitely worth restoring and if Chris Algar was prepared to pay £5,400 for it originally, sight unseen, then it's got to worth at least half that, unrestored.

I wonder.

Though it would take some expert work, the woodwork definitely looks like it could be fully restored. I'm wondering, though, whether the reeds are capable of being restored to a condition worthy of the rest of the instrument. If many reeds -- not necessarily just broken ones -- would need replacement, they would almost certainly have to be newly made by one of today's few reed makers, and that could well be the deal breaker. And if that's the case, then I think even the new starting price is too high.

If I could get it for a low enough price, though, I wonder if I wouldn't be tempted to have the rest restored and swap in the reeds from my own ebony-ended 64-button tenor-treble.



If you have the reeds then it might make sense Jim,

but badly rusted reeds might also mean damp conditions of playing/storage and can hint at the possibility of warped woodwork
and perhaps a bellows replacement... it could all end up costing a great deal.

#11 JimLucas

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 06:22 AM

... it could all end up costing a great deal.

Luckily(:unsure:), I currently have no money to spare for such foolishness, even if the opportunity were to present itself. :(

#12 cjmiller

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 11:25 AM

If many reeds -- not necessarily just broken ones -- would need replacement, they would almost certainly have to be newly made by one of today's few reed makers, and that could well be the deal breaker.


Who could make a full set of reeds for that instrument? What would it cost?

It looks to me like it quickly becomes the old joke about my grandfather's axe--it's had 3 new handles and 2 new heads, but it's still my grandfather's axe. After new reeds, new bellows, and major woodwork, what exactly is left that would make this instrument so special?

For the same money you'll have in this one, you could call Wm Wakker, order one of his Paramus models and be done with it.

#13 felix castro

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:58 PM

Here's the link to the original discussion about this concertina. Chris Algar was the winning bidder and has obviously rejected it because he found out it needs a lot of work doing to it to restore it and its present condition doesn't warrant the £5,400 he paid for it. So, the seller has got it back again and is re-adverstising it. My approximate interpretation of translation of the Portugese, is as follows: The concertina is the same one that was sold previously, however the purchaser found that the amount that he bid (5400 pounds),was too much, having raised with me that there were problems with it and returned the concertina. The concertina has some defects in the wood and in the veneer in the wood of amboyna. Some reeds are broken and and there is some rust present. To Summarise, the concertina is used and restoration is needed. It will be sent well-packed in an aluminum case and with insurance on the final value of the auction. Bank transference also accepted.

It's definitely worth restoring and if Chris Algar was prepared to pay £5,400 for it originally, sight unseen, then it's got to worth at least half that, unrestored.

Chris

The translation is correct, he said that the bidder considered (found literally, encontró in spanish, achou in portuguese and galician) that the price (amount) of the bidding was very (better "bastante" means quite a lot?) high based on the anormalities that the concertina showed ? and returned the instrument.

#14 Chris Drinkwater

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Posted 19 April 2012 - 07:03 PM


Here's the link to the original discussion about this concertina. Chris Algar was the winning bidder and has obviously rejected it because he found out it needs a lot of work doing to it to restore it and its present condition doesn't warrant the £5,400 he paid for it. So, the seller has got it back again and is re-adverstising it. My approximate interpretation of translation of the Portugese, is as follows: The concertina is the same one that was sold previously, however the purchaser found that the amount that he bid (5400 pounds),was too much, having raised with me that there were problems with it and returned the concertina. The concertina has some defects in the wood and in the veneer in the wood of amboyna. Some reeds are broken and and there is some rust present. To Summarise, the concertina is used and restoration is needed. It will be sent well-packed in an aluminum case and with insurance on the final value of the auction. Bank transference also accepted.

It's definitely worth restoring and if Chris Algar was prepared to pay £5,400 for it originally, sight unseen, then it's got to worth at least half that, unrestored.

Chris

The translation is correct, he said that the bidder considered (found literally, encontró in spanish, achou in portuguese and galician) that the price (amount) of the bidding was very (better "bastante" means quite a lot?) high based on the anormalities that the concertina showed ? and returned the instrument.


Pleased you confirm I got the translation from Portugese to English about right, Felix. :)

Chris

#15 JimLucas

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Posted 20 April 2012 - 03:47 PM

If many reeds -- not necessarily just broken ones -- would need replacement, they would almost certainly have to be newly made by one of today's few reed makers, and that could well be the deal breaker.

Who could make a full set of reeds for that instrument? What would it cost?

I didn't say a full set. That would indeed be expensive, though I'm sure Steve Dickinson (among others) could do it. But hey, if one could get this TT for £100 (instead of £2300+), it might well be worth even a full new set of reeds, which certainly shouldn't exceed the cost of an entirely new instrument which itself contained such a complete set.

For the same money you'll have in this one, you could call Wm Wakker, order one of his Paramus models and be done with it.

For the same money or even significantly less, one could have any of various vintage or contemporary instruments. But would they sound the same? Different fretwork patterns and different materials -- even different wooden veneers -- produce different sound qualities. The Parnassus differs significantly from former concertinas in the materials forming the end plates and, perhaps more significantly, in the structure of the fretwork, in both 2 and 3 dimensions. I'm very interested in hearing what one actually sounds like.

And that leads me to wonder what it might cost to have my "ebony"-ended TT re-veneered in amboyna. Mind you, I'm not seriously considering having it done, but in terms of comparative cost, I'm curious.

#16 conzertino

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Posted 21 April 2012 - 03:19 AM

According to reliable sources one of the ends has a very bad crack, bits of vaneer are missing and the reeds are very rusty.... Hence Chris returned the instrument!

#17 ssoares

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 09:06 AM

Hello
Sorry my English is not the best.
I am the seller of the concertina.
I have no knowledge of the concertina.
The concertina was locked in a closet until the present day.
The previous deal did not work because Mr. Chris Algar claimed that the concertina did not meet their expectations, with a loss of EUR 1000 for me (fees, transportation, insurance ...).
In my opinion, those who bid so high a value must contact the seller before to check every detail of the object.
I give you a link to more pictures I took now.
I am available for any clarification and if necessary provide further details.
I know that previous images on ebay may have misled the persons concerned, but I tell you that was not my intention.
I was always careful to give all the details of the concertina.
Thank you for your interest.


https://plus.google....516124998656673

(You can download the pictures and zoom in your computer)

regards,
Sergio Soares

#18 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 23 April 2012 - 12:44 PM

Hello
Sorry my English is not the best.
I am the seller of the concertina.
I have no knowledge of the concertina.
The concertina was locked in a closet until the present day.
The previous deal did not work because Mr. Chris Algar claimed that the concertina did not meet their expectations, with a loss of EUR 1000 for me (fees, transportation, insurance ...).
In my opinion, those who bid so high a value must contact the seller before to check every detail of the object.
I give you a link to more pictures I took now.
I am available for any clarification and if necessary provide further details.
I know that previous images on ebay may have misled the persons concerned, but I tell you that was not my intention.
I was always careful to give all the details of the concertina.
Thank you for your interest.


https://plus.google....516124998656673

(You can download the pictures and zoom in your computer)

regards,
Sergio Soares




Sergio,
there is talk of a bad crack in one end of your concertina... could you include a picture of the under sides of the pieces of wood which have the keys (buttons) and levers fitted to ?

This might make clear what else is wrong with the concertina and perhaps give confidence to those people who might want to bid for it.

good luck,
Geoff. :)




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