
leather valves
#1
Posted 08 January 2012 - 03:16 PM
#2
Posted 08 January 2012 - 04:47 PM
No time to search for it right now, but I believe there's an old post where Rich Morse went into detail about leather, including what parts of the skin are best for different uses in the concertina.Does anyone know what is the best type of leather for concertina valves ?
Edited by JimLucas, 08 January 2012 - 04:48 PM.
#3
Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:09 PM
#4
Posted 08 January 2012 - 06:18 PM
http://www.concertin...rtina reeds.htm
He's one of the experts I've sent an instrument to for work involving new valves.
Edited by Larry Stout, 09 January 2012 - 02:44 PM.
#6
Posted 16 January 2012 - 12:24 AM
What kind of glue should one use to glue the leather valve to the metal read block?
Thanks
#7
Posted 16 January 2012 - 04:59 PM
I have a different question about the leather valves. ( I just bought a copy of Dave Elliott's book on eBay, so I have about a week or two before I see it. Meanwhile. . . )
What kind of glue should one use to glue the leather valve to the metal read block?
Thanks
Hi Alex. The leather valve isn't glued to the metal reed frame. It's glued to the wood on the other side of the reed pan from the reed, over the slot cut in the wood. I use Feibing's Leathercraft Cement See here which I think is just PVA but twice the price. Still, it sounds good! Some people use a mix of PVA and cornstarch glue and the real masochists use animal hide glue!
#8
Posted 16 January 2012 - 05:34 PM
Somewhere here is an old post by the late Rich Morse in which he describes how they used thickened shellac to attach valves.
Ken
#9
Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:18 PM
On this concertina, it is glued to the metal reed block. This is a Scholer 20 button concertina that I am fixing up to have something that a real sailor would use. The one I am fixing up has a total of 12 trapezoidal reed blocks - each reed block has 5 reeds for the push, and 5 for the pull. There are 3 reeds per note, giving the pitch in 3 simultaneous octaves. It is a little late for me to photograph it right now, but I have a photo of another smaller Scholer that has only 1 reed per note, and therefore has only a total of 4 trapezoidal reed blocks. This one I am cannibalizing for parts. Here is 1 of its reed blocks, showing 2 of the leather valves glued to the metal reed block:I have a different question about the leather valves. ( I just bought a copy of Dave Elliott's book on eBay, so I have about a week or two before I see it. Meanwhile. . . )
What kind of glue should one use to glue the leather valve to the metal read block?
Thanks
Hi Alex. The leather valve isn't glued to the metal reed frame. It's glued to the wood on the other side of the reed pan from the reed, over the slot cut in the wood. I use Feibing's Leathercraft Cement See here which I think is just PVA but twice the price. Still, it sounds good! Some people use a mix of PVA and cornstarch glue and the real masochists use animal hide glue!

I have something called "Eco-Flo Tanner's Bond Leathercraft Cement", that is the same thing as Feibing's Leathercraft Cement. I would not be surprised if it holds the leather to wood, because wood is porous, but it is metal that I need to know about.
Edited by AlexCJones, 16 January 2012 - 11:21 PM.
#10
Posted 17 January 2012 - 03:23 AM
Edited by Theo, 17 January 2012 - 03:25 AM.
#11
Posted 17 January 2012 - 12:20 PM
On this concertina, it is glued to the metal reed block. This is a Scholer 20 button concertina that I am fixing up to have something that a real sailor would use. The one I am fixing up has a total of 12 trapezoidal reed blocks - each reed block has 5 reeds for the push, and 5 for the pull. There are 3 reeds per note, giving the pitch in 3 simultaneous octaves. It is a little late for me to photograph it right now, but I have a photo of another smaller Scholer that has only 1 reed per note, and therefore has only a total of 4 trapezoidal reed blocks. This one I am cannibalizing for parts. Here is 1 of its reed blocks, showing 2 of the leather valves glued to the metal reed block:I have a different question about the leather valves. ( I just bought a copy of Dave Elliott's book on eBay, so I have about a week or two before I see it. Meanwhile. . . )
What kind of glue should one use to glue the leather valve to the metal read block?
Thanks
Hi Alex. The leather valve isn't glued to the metal reed frame. It's glued to the wood on the other side of the reed pan from the reed, over the slot cut in the wood. I use Feibing's Leathercraft Cement See here which I think is just PVA but twice the price. Still, it sounds good! Some people use a mix of PVA and cornstarch glue and the real masochists use animal hide glue!![]()
I have something called "Eco-Flo Tanner's Bond Leathercraft Cement", that is the same thing as Feibing's Leathercraft Cement. I would not be surprised if it holds the leather to wood, because wood is porous, but it is metal that I need to know about.
My apologies Alex. My lack of knowledge, I'd never come across that type of instrument before. I see your problem. Theo's idea sounds good. When you say a real sailor, are you planning to use it on a boat? On my boat, everything non ferrous rusts very very quickly! Especially dissimilar metals next to each other. Good luck.
Andy.
#12
Posted 20 January 2012 - 11:20 PM
I use Bostic extra strong contact adhesive for applying valves to aluminium and zinc reedplates. It comes in a hand tube which makes it easy to apply. I apply the glue to the valve only and press it into place immediately. I've been using this method for about 7 years now and have no complaints so far.
Thanks Theo. Much appreciated. When I Google "Bostic extra strong contact adhesive" it returns results for it spelled "Bostik" and it looks like it is mostly available in UK. Would anyone know of an equivalent glue that is sold in the States? If not, I'll just try whatever describes itself as a "contact adhesive".
#13
Posted 20 January 2012 - 11:26 PM
My apologies Alex. My lack of knowledge, I'd never come across that type of instrument before. I see your problem. Theo's idea sounds good. When you say a real sailor, are you planning to use it on a boat? On my boat, everything non ferrous rusts very very quickly! Especially dissimilar metals next to each other. Good luck.
Andy.
. . . Well not likely a boat, but a ship. In the summer, our Sea Shanty group often goes aboard a ship called the WindyI.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=KpOOxnX4Y1Y
Mostly, though, I plan to play it on shore at our usual monthly Shanty gathering at a pub called the Atlantic
#14
Posted 21 January 2012 - 09:02 AM
Bryan Lafleur
#15
Posted 23 February 2012 - 09:35 AM
When re-valving accordions, one easily goes through hundreds of valves depending on the size of the box, so it's essential that I can streamline as much of the operation as possible, and this is where shellac comes in. Just open my jar of prepared shellac (I leave it a bit softer than honey), dip a brush or toothpick in the shellac, spread a bit on a reed plate, rinse & repeat. After all reed plates have shellac on them, press valves on them. It dries so slowly you can complete a whole block of reeds in one go, and you can adjust the alignment of the leathers to be just perfect, whereas with a lot of contact cements, metal glues and super glues, you get one go at getting it right, and then it's already glued tight.
The downside with raw shellac flakes is that they're very expensive to buy in sensible quantities. http://www.shellacshack.com/ is a US supplier, but unless you're running an antique restoration shop, their 1 lb bags will last a very long time. And I don't think their prices are that good, because I've been buying shellac flakes at roughly 25€ a kilogram (roughly 33 USD per 2.2 lb) in Finland, the land of everything is expensive.
Cheers,
Jori
#16
Posted 25 February 2012 - 07:49 AM
I have a different question about the leather valves. ( I just bought a copy of Dave Elliott's book on eBay, so I have about a week or two before I see it. Meanwhile. . . )
What kind of glue should one use to glue the leather valve to the metal read block?
Thanks
Please do not use an impact adhesive (evostick or bostick) or a PVA on a concertina, it makes subsequent maintenance a nightmare. I use gum Arabic or shellac, they hold well, and can be easily scraped off. remember that a concertina is not for life, it is for many lives.
Dave
#17
Posted 25 February 2012 - 08:23 AM
#18
Posted 25 February 2012 - 11:56 AM
I've found this Staples liquid glue very good for attaching valves. I think it may be gum arabic based. Just don't try to apply it with the glue pen it come in!
Since Gloy Gum has disappeared, the only other alternative that I know of is the gum arabic crystals. You can get them from the wicca sites, just dont put a hex on the concertina, although the are already hex-agonal, or at least most are. (sorry)
Dave
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