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Numbers of the various Wheatstone Models?


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#1 Ptarmigan

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 10:50 AM

In my search for the previous, perhaps original owner / player of my 62 key Aeola Baritone / Treble [#15], I now find myself wondering just how many of these big beasties were actually made.

So here's my question, is there a record anywhere here, or elsewhere on the net, of the number of each model, that was made by Wheatstone?

I imagine it would be a pretty tedious task to go through all the ledgers, taking note of the actual number of each model that was ever made, but then I'm pretty sure I'm not the only anorak in these waters! :P

Cheers,
Dick

#2 SteveS

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:09 AM

In my search for the previous, perhaps original owner / player of my 62 key Aeola Baritone / Treble [#15], I now find myself wondering just how many of these big beasties were actually made.

So here's my question, is there a record anywhere here, or elsewhere on the net, of the number of each model, that was made by Wheatstone?

I imagine it would be a pretty tedious task to go through all the ledgers, taking note of the actual number of each model that was ever made, but then I'm pretty sure I'm not the only anorak in these waters! :P

Cheers,
Dick

Dick

I started to research B/T & baritone models and one thing I found in the earlier ledgers is no apparent distinction between B/T and regular transposing baritone models - they appear to be all listed as baritone. I also noticed that in earlier pricelists B/T models are not listed. Identifying B/T models therefore in older ledgers is somewhat more difficult.

It seems that B/T models appear in the pricelists as separate models (model # 14, 15, 16) sometime around 1920, making their identification in the ledgers easier.

Edited by SteveS, 18 December 2011 - 11:24 AM.


#3 Ptarmigan

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 11:40 AM

I started to research B/T & baritone models and one thing I found in the earlier ledgers is no apparent distinction between B/T and regular transposing baritone models - they appear to be all listed as baritone. I also noticed that in earlier pricelists B/T models are not listed. Identifying B/T models therefore in older ledgers is somewhat more difficult.

It seems that B/T models appear in the pricelists as separate models (model # 14, 15, 16) sometime around 1920, making their identification in the ledgers easier.


Hi Steve,

Is it fair to say that we can safely assume that all 62 & 64 key instruments were Baritone instruments?

I suppose that distinction is just not possible with 56 key instruments, which I'm guessing could be Extended models, or TT's or actual Baritones.

Mind you, that still leaves a heck of a lot of counting to be done & without any definitive result at the end, to show for all the hard work.
Which is, no doubt, why nobody has bothered.

Ah well, no harm in asking. ;)

Cheers,
Dick

#4 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 02:17 PM

I have counted the B/T's. They were produced from about 1920 onwards and I have been through the ledgers,well up untill World War Two. I have the figures somewhere and I did metion it in a topic here about a year back. Total of all, 56/62/64 key, B/T's that I found was something like 35, as I recall.

Englishes with more than 56 keys can also be extended upwards Trebles...

I will look for the figures and the particular topic and report back.

Geoff.

Edited by Geoff Wooff, 18 December 2011 - 02:19 PM.


#5 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 02:59 PM

The topic which shows the results of my trawl through the Ledgers is called "Unusual Baritone English ?"
Maybe the figures I gave on that thread are not the complete picture because I did not follow through past the War period.

#6 Ptarmigan

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 03:39 PM

I have counted the B/T's. They were produced from about 1920 onwards and I have been through the ledgers,well up untill World War Two. I have the figures somewhere and I did metion it in a topic here about a year back. Total of all, 56/62/64 key, B/T's that I found was something like 35, as I recall.
Geoff.


WOW! ... only 35! :o .......... that wasn't even two per year.

I didn't realise there were so few actually produced.

I got the impression that these models were rather popular with some of the professional Music Hall artists, so assumed there had been quite a big demand for them, but clearly that wasn't the case.

Thanks Geoof.

It's interesting to think that at least two of them, that I know of, found good homes up in Aberdeenshire. B)

Cheers,
Dick

#7 Ptarmigan

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 03:41 PM

The topic which shows the results of my trawl through the Ledgers is called "Unusual Baritone English ?"
Maybe the figures I gave on that thread are not the complete picture because I did not follow through past the War period.


Well Geoff, some might say that, in relation to Baritones, this would be the most important & interesting period. ;)

Cheers,
Dick

#8 SteveS

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 03:44 PM

I have counted the B/T's. They were produced from about 1920 onwards and I have been through the ledgers,well up untill World War Two. I have the figures somewhere and I did metion it in a topic here about a year back. Total of all, 56/62/64 key, B/T's that I found was something like 35, as I recall.

Englishes with more than 56 keys can also be extended upwards Trebles...

I will look for the figures and the particular topic and report back.

Geoff.

Geoff
B/Ts were made before 1920 - mine dates from c1914 and is a 64 key.
How many were made before 1920 I've no idea, but they don't appear in the pricelists until 1920 or so.

Edited by SteveS, 18 December 2011 - 06:34 PM.


#9 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 03:53 PM

Well, that is interesting Steve.

I suppose Wheatstones got the idea of this layout from someone's request for a special and decided to add it to their model range.
Does your 1913 64key have a model type in the ledgers ?

#10 SteveS

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 04:08 PM

Well, that is interesting Steve.

I suppose Wheatstones got the idea of this layout from someone's request for a special and decided to add it to their model range.
Does your 1913 64key have a model type in the ledgers ?

Listed as model 20B - model 20s are baritone Aeola according to the pricelist. But it is definitely a B/T.

#11 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 04:35 PM


Well, that is interesting Steve.

I suppose Wheatstones got the idea of this layout from someone's request for a special and decided to add it to their model range.
Does your 1913 64key have a model type in the ledgers ?

Listed as model 20B - model 20s are baritone Aeola according to the pricelist. But it is definitely a B/T.


Ok, thanks for that. An up date on those numbers from the 1920's... I've just re-read my findings and see that I counted 64 not 35. But, even given the fact they existed prior to the 1920's, they are still rare.

#12 JimLucas

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 06:07 PM

Is it fair to say that we can safely assume that all 62 & 64 key instruments were Baritone instruments?

Nope.

I have a 64-button tenor-treble.

And my recollection is that Juliette Daum's bass-baritone is a 64-button (and the same size as my own 64-button baritone-treble, though my 56-button bass is larger).

#13 Ptarmigan

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 06:11 PM

Is it fair to say that we can safely assume that all 62 & 64 key instruments were Baritone instruments?

Nope.

I have a 64-button tenor-treble.

And my recollection is that Juliette Daum's bass-baritone is a 64-button (and the same size as my own 64-button baritone-treble, though my 56-button bass is larger).


Ooooops! .... I stand corrected! Posted Image

#14 John Wild

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 07:27 PM

When i purchased a baritone-treble from Michael Pierceall, he kindly supplied a summary sheet of 123 baritone-trebles. i hope Michael does not mind me sharing this information in these forums. I attach it here as a PDF file. I do not have a detailed list of the instruments included in the summary.

regards

John Wild[attachment=7153:Wheatstone baritone trebles.pdf]

#15 Ptarmigan

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Posted 18 December 2011 - 08:22 PM

When i purchased a baritone-treble from Michael Pierceall, he kindly supplied a summary sheet of 123 baritone-trebles. i hope Michael does not mind me sharing this information in these forums. I attach it here as a PDF file. I do not have a detailed list of the instruments included in the summary.

regards

John Wild[attachment=7153:Wheatstone baritone trebles.pdf]


Hey John, many thanks for sharing that info.

Fascinating to learn that there were only 7 other #15s made like mine, with metal ends. I wonder where they all are now.

Cheers,
Dick

#16 scoopet

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 05:51 AM

hi dick,
I've got a rare 'big beastie' as well.....Its a baritone however not a baritone treble.Its got raised metal ends ,with intricate cut fretwork, a flat reed pan( geoff start salivating :) ) and basically looks like a big early model 22...its number 22890 ish.I think its a model 27? John Adey's got the same but a much newer one(1920s!)Has anyone seen any other raised ended wheatstone 6 sided baritones? By the way it plays fantastically.

#17 scoopet

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 05:57 AM

forgot to say that's not got nor ever had wrist straps fitted :unsure:

#18 Geoff Wooff

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Posted 20 December 2011 - 11:37 AM

hi dick,
I've got a rare 'big beastie' as well.....Its a baritone however not a baritone treble.Its got raised metal ends ,with intricate cut fretwork, a flat reed pan( geoff start salivating :) ) and basically looks like a big early model 22...its number 22890 ish.I think its a model 27? John Adey's got the same but a much newer one(1920s!)Has anyone seen any other raised ended wheatstone 6 sided baritones? By the way it plays fantastically.



I'm salivating alright ! <_<

Sounds wonderfull... when's it for sale.. make a fine Christmas present (for me).




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