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composer/songwriters:Is there a tina shanty to be got out of this stor


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#1 Kautilya

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 07:30 AM

A young Portsmouth woman was
so depressed that she decided to take her life by throwing
herself
into the sea, but just as she was about to
jump off the wharf, a handsome young man stopped her.

"You have so much to
live for," said the man. "I'm a sailor, and we sail to Australia
tomorrow at first light. I can stow you away on the ship. I'll
take care of you, bring you food every day, and keep you
happy."

With nothing to lose,
combined with the fact she had always wanted to go to
Australia, the woman accepted.


That night the sailor
took her aboard and hid her in a small but comfortable
compartment in the hold. From then on, every night he would bring
her food and a bottle of red wine, and make love to her till
dawn.

Two weeks later she was
discovered by the captain during a routine inspection. "What
are you doing here?" asked the captain.

"I have an arrangement with one of your sailors," she replied "He
brings me food and I get a free trip to Australia."

"I see," says the captain.

Her conscience gets the better of her and she added, "Plus, he's screwing
me."

"He certainly is,"
replied the captain. "This is the Isle of Wight ferry."
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Edited by Kautilya, 03 November 2011 - 07:31 AM.


#2 RAc

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 07:47 AM

ok, here's the first three verses by me - somebody else willing to supply the rest of the story? ;-)

In the mid of the night
there is no trace of light
and the fog chills the soul to the bone
in the thick harbor air
steps a maiden so fair
determined to die here alone

Young Johnny steps by
sees the tears in her eye
takes his Jeffries and sings her a song
of the palms and the fun
under Caribbean sun
"I'll make sure you'll be there before long!"

He sure knew to entice
didn't have to ask twice
to take the lass out to sea
In a lifeboat she slept
in the nights Johnny kept
her warm with his body and tea

Edited by Ruediger R. Asche, 03 November 2011 - 07:48 AM.


#3 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 08:23 AM

Not at all to spoil the party...

There is a German version of this, (written and?) sung by one Richard Germer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT38ahqEc3Y


edited to add a link to the (still German) lyrics (page "4") and:

You won't hear them sing 'bout the sailors 'tina, scandalously :angry:

Edited by blue eyed sailor, 03 November 2011 - 08:45 AM.


#4 Kautilya

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:19 AM

ok, here's the first three verses by me - somebody else willing to supply the rest of the story? ;-)

In the mid of the night
there is no trace of light
and the fog chills the soul to the bone
in the thick harbor air
steps a maiden so fair
determined to die here alone

Young Johnny steps by
sees the tears in her eye
takes his Jeffries and sings her a song
of the palms and the fun
under Caribbean sun
"I'll make sure you'll be there before long!"

He sure knew to entice
didn't have to ask twice
to take the lass out to sea
In a lifeboat she slept
in the nights Johnny kept
her warm with his body and tea

Prima!!!
Might I suggest an alternative for non-tea-total singers?
Instead of

"..her warm with his body and tea"

"...her warm with body and toddy" to preserve the alcoholic link as well as capitalise on the alliteration?

Perhaps we need also to watch for intercultural differences and faux amis, if this is to go global.
For example:
Might some Anglophones understand the verb "Jeffrey" in the same light as "to Roger"(verb but also noun or proper noun ....) i.e. "to Jeffrey" or in this case "takes his Jeffries".. etc

Jones, would work if Welsh has an expression "to Jones"...

But not sure if there is a maker called Roger in the concertina museum archives tho perhaps in the Horni-man Museum?

Likewise "Lash-enal", which ill-educated listeners certainly would hear as having naval connotations, tho whether there would be room to swing or squeeze a cat-o-nine-bellows in a lifeboat to best effect is an ergonomic questions beyond the remit of this effort.

Perhaps Geoff can advise whether "to Crabb" would also be unsuitable in this context (not the plural of course.

I refer you to similar potential linguistic complications relating to the allegedly Celtic (Gaelic words?)in another song, bearing in mind wikithort which says:

Celtic language family divided into a "Goidelic" (Irish, Scots and Manx Gaelic) as well as a "Brythonic" branch (Welsh, Breton, Cornish).
In other words, Gaelic is a part of the larger Celtic universe."
Song:
http://www.chabun.co...An_Old_Man.aspx
:lol:

Edited by Kautilya, 03 November 2011 - 11:35 AM.


#5 Kautilya

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Posted 03 November 2011 - 11:59 AM

Not at all to spoil the party...

There is a German version of this, (written and?) sung by one Richard Germer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CT38ahqEc3Y


edited to add a link to the (still German) lyrics (page "4") and:

You won't hear them sing 'bout the sailors 'tina, scandalously :angry:

World kultya, you see!

I think that would have to be feminine plural as there were two shailors shurely?
"tinae"
Unless you prefer a transliterated Greek derivative:"tiny". But you might get sued by the sailor/s.

Googletranslate offers some useful English conundra, with the Captain getting in on the act too by the look of things:

1) Do you know the story, the story of Mary, Mary,
the like want to Batavia?
Mary swarm her work 'on there, Ner Farm
and she had no money, just a heart true as steel.
In the boutique "To Ulrike blond," already gave two sailors'
her a 'Lütt to Lütt - they liked the two
quite happy to suffer
why she tells the boys to their longing pain:

Refr.
Yes, from Altona Batavia
leaves no bus and no train!
Between Altona and Batavia is the big ocean!

2) If it were not possible, "she begged quite pathetically,
"Do you take me to the ship as if blind passenger?
However, it brings me to eat secretly,
I present to you a thousand kisses as a reward for it. "
This is mastered, the two war'n excited
and Mary was hidden among clutter.
Fed 'was her every day, as often as possible,
up on the fourth day of Kapt'än they discovered.

Refr: Yes, of Altona ......

3) It was not until he was furiously, but then 'it kindly.
She asked tearfully: "Oh, let me on board!"
Here on the sea, in yawning emptiness,
chases her but a helpless girls did not continue! "
The captain laughed, and took her gently with the truth:
"Girl, what does it mean? Wide sea Look, what I say,
have you been four days:
St. Pauli, Blankenese shuttle services! "

But there seems to be a twist in the tail: Shaint Pauli is shurely the home of the red light dishtrict in Hamburg,across the Elbe from Blankenese, so maybe it was really Mary on the pull (with an Anglo-- originally German-- diatonic of course ( gedditt??!!) while the sailor/s were only on an English :rolleyes:

Our Quebec friends may also have some lingustic illumination for us if there was a Shaint Pauli "Crane" Duet involved. :ph34r:

Edited by Kautilya, 03 November 2011 - 12:23 PM.


#6 Anglo-Irishman

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 01:44 PM

World kultya, you see!

But there seems to be a twist in the tail: Shaint Pauli is shurely the home of the red light dishtrict in Hamburg,across the Elbe from Blankenese, so maybe it was really Mary on the pull (with an Anglo-- originally German-- diatonic of course ( gedditt??!!) while the sailor/s were only on an English :rolleyes:

Our Quebec friends may also have some lingustic illumination for us if there was a Shaint Pauli "Crane" Duet involved. :ph34r:


Kautilya,
Just for the sake of clarity, I've made a professional translation of the German lyric - correct, idiomatic translation, any rhyme or metre being pure coincidence.

Don't overestimate the connotations of "St.Pauli" in German ears, though. If a German wants to allude to the red-light district (known in English as a fiddler's green, BTW) he'll say "Reeperbahn", which is the main erotic thoroughfare in St. Pauli. ("Die Reeperbahn" simply means "The Rope-Walks", which is used as a street name in British seaport towns.) Other connotations of St. Pauli are the quays (Landungsbrücken), where the fish restaurants are, or FC St. Pauli, which sort of rotates between the 1st and 2nd football Bundesliga.

And I'd have thought that a "Crane" would be more something a stevedore or docker would have, rather than a sailor ...

Well, here's the precise translation as a reliable basis if anyone wants to versify it:

Story of Mary



1.) Do you know the story, the story of Mary, of Mary,

who wanted to go to Batavia?

Mary's beloved worked there on a farm,

and she had no money, just a heart true as gold.

In the "Blonde Ulrike" tavern, two seamen

stood her one short after another — she rather liked both of them,

so she told the boys of her pangs of longing:



Refr.

Oh, from Altona [railway station in Hamburg] to Batavia

there are no busses or trains!

Between Altona and Batavia lies the great Ocean!



2.) "Would it be possible," she asked quite pitifully,

"To take me on board as a stowaway?

If you secretly bring me something to eat,

I'll repay you with a thousand kisses."

This was doable; the two were delighted,

and Mary was hidden among the clutter.

She was given food daily, as often as possible,

until, on the fourth day, the Captain discovered her.



Refr:

Oh, from Altona ...



3.) At first he was raging, but then quite engaging.

She begged him with tears in her eyes, "Oh, let me stay on board!

Out here at sea, in the wide empty spaces,

you wouldn't turn a helpless girl away!"

The Captain laughed, and gently revealed the truth:

"My girl, what do you mean by 'at sea?' Now listen to me:

for four days now, you've been sailing

in the St. Pauli-Blankenese [two districts of Hamburg] ferry!"


By the way, this thread is fascinating!
Following the link to the German lyrics, I landed on the website of the shanty choir "de Flinthörners" from the East Frisian island of Langeoog. We spent a holiday there - must be 20 years ago - and the landlord of our holiday flat was a member of the choir. So we had to go to the concert that took place while we were there. I must say, it was most enjoyable! The Flinthörners lived up to their advertising claim, "More than just a shanty choir." They had stage scenery representing a dockside with a sailing ship moored at it, and they were all dressed as sailors, stevedores, Customs men, fishmongers and the like, and they did nice linking dialogs between the songs. There were a couple of very good solo voices, too. Their choirmistress played a very nice PA - there was no further accompaniment, and none was needed.
Happy Memories!

Cheers,
John


Edited by Anglo-Irishman, 11 November 2011 - 01:46 PM.


#7 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 11 November 2011 - 04:49 PM

Just for the sake of clarity, I've made a professional translation of the German lyric - correct, idiomatic translation, any rhyme or metre being pure coincidence.

But, to start with, I find the replacement of "wütig-gütig" with "raging-engaging" quite nice... :)

in the St. Pauli-Blankenese [two districts of Hamburg] ferry!"

Here might be added: two districts on the same (northern) banks of the river Elbe...
(nothing like a shuttle ferry towards the Isle of Helgoland, or, say, Finkenwerder therefore...,
only replicating the streets) B)

@ Kautilya: "tinae" would do it for me, I guess... <_<

#8 Kautilya

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Posted 12 November 2011 - 03:28 PM

Great digging John - it is fascinating as you say.
The musical repertoire is littered with characters in such songs, including Liverpool, long before the Beatles == Maggie May.... who won;t walk down Lime Street any more...allegedly 19th C.
http://lyricsplaygro...maggiemay.shtml


As for St Pauli, the strikes and collective of working women in action around there were of St Pauli- tho as u say the focus to outsiders was/is the one street, part of St Pauli district.
http://www.independe...on-1639293.html

Family visits and "The Beatles lived in St. Pauli, Hamburg" : http://www.reeperbahn.org.uk/

The Public Health Department of Bremen, down the road from Hamburg, worked extensively with the regional collectives which gave the Vatican a headache during a papal visit to Berlin and they also caused similar stirs in Hamburg at church services - the bigger picture can be found here tho can't vouch for Wikipedia being 100 per cent:
http://en.wikipedia....tutes’_Rights

Which takes us nicely to the Crane - and my Quebec reference -- "une grue" which has another, slang meaning ( ref "And I'd have thought that a "Crane" would be more something a stevedore or docker would have, rather than a sailor ..." )

http://french.about....lary/g/grue.htm

http://forum.wordref...d.php?t=1202161

Inevitably the French have a Maggie May - a "crane/grue"in Marseilles - the words of the song are here and are a play of words (on La Marseillaise = the national anthem), by Léo Ferré, reputedly one of France's great troubadours, composers, songwriters and singers. Tune sounds v difficult to play and nothing to do with anthem dots!

Further, I fear to see what Googletranslate would do to it as his indirect references and double-meanings make it a literary firework and it would be a real challenge to get "her" into singable English:
J' connais une grue sur le Vieux Port
Avec des dents longues comme la faim

He does say towards the end
"Et ramène moi l'accordéon"
so maybe it would work on the tina too! Surely by a Crane duet player out there......

http://fr.lyrics.wik...La_Marseillaise
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=9UeS6c7m_AI

Looking forward to the new verses from someone to finish what Ruediger started so brilliantly!

Edited by Kautilya, 12 November 2011 - 05:55 PM.


#9 Anglo-Irishman

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 09:07 AM

ok, here's the first three verses by me - somebody else willing to supply the rest of the story? ;-)

In the mid of the night
there is no trace of light
and the fog chills the soul to the bone
in the thick harbor air
steps a maiden so fair
determined to die here alone

Young Johnny steps by
sees the tears in her eye
takes his Jeffries and sings her a song
of the palms and the fun
under Caribbean sun
"I'll make sure you'll be there before long!"

He sure knew to entice
didn't have to ask twice
to take the lass out to sea
In a lifeboat she slept
in the nights Johnny kept
her warm with his body and tea


OK, shipmates, here's the rest of it, based on Kautilya's version of the story:

John's additions (right to make improvements reserved):

Till after a fortnight
the Captain with foresight
thought fit to inspect all the boats;

imagine the fun
when he looked in the one
where Johnny was getting his oats!


"Oh, please," begged the girl,
"Don't act like a churl
and set me adrift on the ocean!
'Twas Johnny who hid me
and fed me and did me
each night with increasing devotion!"


The Captain was raging,
but she looked engaging,
so he gave a chuckle so merry:
"You sure have been done
by that son of a gun –
'cos this is the Isle of Wight ferry!"

Now to find a tune! (The songwriting team of Asche/Dallas goes into its second project!:) )

Cheers,
John

Edited by Anglo-Irishman, 13 November 2011 - 09:09 AM.


#10 Kautilya

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Posted 13 November 2011 - 10:20 AM

ok, here's the first three verses by me - somebody else willing to supply the rest of the story? ;-)

In the mid of the night
there is no trace of light
and the fog chills the soul to the bone
in the thick harbor air
steps a maiden so fair
determined to die here alone

Young Johnny steps by
sees the tears in her eye
takes his Jeffries and sings her a song
of the palms and the fun
under Caribbean sun
"I'll make sure you'll be there before long!"

He sure knew to entice
didn't have to ask twice
to take the lass out to sea
In a lifeboat she slept
in the nights Johnny kept
her warm with his body and tea


OK, shipmates, here's the rest of it, based on Kautilya's version of the story:

John's additions (right to make improvements reserved):

Till after a fortnight
the Captain with foresight
thought fit to inspect all the boats;

imagine the fun
when he looked in the one
where Johnny was getting his oats!


"Oh, please," begged the girl,
"Don't act like a churl
and set me adrift on the ocean!
'Twas Johnny who hid me
and fed me and did me
each night with increasing devotion!"


The Captain was raging,
but she looked engaging,
so he gave a chuckle so merry:
"You sure have been done
by that son of a gun –
'cos this is the Isle of Wight ferry!"

Now to find a tune! (The songwriting team of Asche/Dallas goes into its second project!:) )

Cheers,
John

Brill! Now where are, appropriately, Alan Night&Day and Chris-in-the-DrinkWater for a melody? :)

#11 RAc

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 06:18 AM

absolutely brilliant, John! Now it's back to me to revamp my top inning in a feeble attempt to match the quality of yours (tough call) - I'll have a go once I'm back in town ( next week). I feel honored and humbled to participate in this cooperation and look forward to more folks join in.

I have more lyrics for you to look at (later per pm). only question left is how to spend the first million...

#12 Kautilya

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 07:10 AM

only question left is how to spend the first million...

Quite simple - as per music industry royalty shares - still photos and video revenues accrue at 10 per cent each for Johnny and Ms Portsmouth, then only sound and print versions (breathy stunt voiceover artists may be required at extra cost)10 per cent for lyricists, composers, plus impresarioinspiratormanagement standard robberyfee of 25 per cent.

But u have to remember these royalties are only payable after costs, incurred by your ever caring impresarioinspiratormanagement, have been deducted which at the moment are running at Euro 1,110,000 (spot rate for 1mn sterling at 1.11)and that is before Mehrwertsteuer and legal challenges from the St Pauli collective which we are advised is in contact with the Portsmouth quayside nightworkers under the PRS (I wonder what that stands for in this context....!?)

Rest assured, costs on "fruit & flowers" and ship's biscuits have been reduced in line with action at EMI (search here for "slashed costs, not just on "fruit and flowers", and brought in expensive management talent". a fair way down the music score
http://www.guardian....hands-citigroup

You also have to ask yourself why these shanty performers have got "Pay me my money down" in their album!

http://www.dailymail...s.html?ITO=1490
:rolleyes: :ph34r:

#13 Anglo-Irishman

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 02:56 PM

only question left is how to spend the first million...

Quite simple - as per music industry royalty shares - still photos and video revenues accrue at 10 per cent each for Johnny and Ms Portsmouth, then only sound and print versions (breathy stunt voiceover artists may be required at extra cost)10 per cent for lyricists, composers, plus impresarioinspiratormanagement standard robberyfee of 25 per cent. ...


OK, Rüdiger, let's talk about the second million! :lol:

Cheers,
John

#14 hielandman

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Posted 14 November 2011 - 05:07 PM

A young Portsmouth woman was
so depressed that she decided to take her life by throwing
herself
into the sea, but just as she was about to
jump off the wharf, a handsome young man stopped her.

"You have so much to
live for," said the man. "I'm a sailor, and we sail to Australia
tomorrow at first light. I can stow you away on the ship. I'll
take care of you, bring you food every day, and keep you
happy."

With nothing to lose,
combined with the fact she had always wanted to go to
Australia, the woman accepted.


That night the sailor
took her aboard and hid her in a small but comfortable
compartment in the hold. From then on, every night he would bring
her food and a bottle of red wine, and make love to her till
dawn.

Two weeks later she was
discovered by the captain during a routine inspection. "What
are you doing here?" asked the captain.

"I have an arrangement with one of your sailors," she replied "He
brings me food and I get a free trip to Australia."

"I see," says the captain.

Her conscience gets the better of her and she added, "Plus, he's screwing
me."

"He certainly is,"
replied the captain. "This is the Isle of Wight ferry."
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I don't know, but THAT is REALLY FUNNY!!

#15 Kautilya

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 06:21 AM

only question left is how to spend the first million...

Quite simple - as per music industry royalty shares - still photos and video revenues accrue at 10 per cent each for Johnny and Ms Portsmouth, then only sound and print versions (breathy stunt voiceover artists may be required at extra cost)10 per cent for lyricists, composers, plus impresarioinspiratormanagement standard robberyfee of 25 per cent. ...


OK, Rüdiger, let's talk about the second million! :lol:

Cheers,
John

That could be feasible. impresarioinspiratormanagement has now converted all running costs and income into Ds (that's not dollars but drachma), based on a complaint by writer which they thort slyly to insert into their work thinking it would not be noticed by dumb executivesas referring to the lyricist rather than the person in the play. You may remember Haydn getting the musicians to leave the room one by one, snuffing out the candle on their music stand until the room was empty - it was a protest to the Esterházys that they had made no provision for musicians' family accoommodation at the summer residence and wanted to go back to Kismarton (Eisenstadt) and indeed the "industrial action worked" (it is allegedly reported by Simon Beales and he highlights Haydn going hungry for his art at 15m here
http://www.bbc.co.uk...sis_and_Genius/

You do not have the status yet of Haydn or Aristophanes (for twas he who gives us the drachma data) so you will have to calculate downwards based on:
"Earlier in 422 BC, we also see in Aristophanes (Wasps, line 300-302) that the daily half-drachma of a juror is just enough for the daily subsistence of a family of three".
And at conversion to the Euro when latter was introduced at start of present millennium the rate was around 340 drachma to Euro. Multiply by the present debt and the daily rate paid for those plucking lyres ....

HOWEVER - taking this route will eat into your putative second million anyway, coz even a duet will have to pay a Greek Chorus and the musicians' union belives in being paid by the line sung for each strophe or ode. Then there is the special fee for epirrhema (painfully long lines of trochaic tetrameters) emanating from the leader of the Chorus. And they insist on double time at weekends or it's Ποτέ την Κυριακή (Never on a Sunday). :rolleyes:

Edited by Kautilya, 15 November 2011 - 10:05 AM.


#16 Kautilya

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 11:07 AM

TOON?
linked from Leo's regular roundup offerings
http://www.concertin...440&qpid=129738

ONe needs to stretch some of the phrasing over a few notes (or vice versa) but otherwise the superb tune of the Maid of Penderyn works quite nicely with the new "The lost but now saved maid of Portsmouth" from Rudi and John.

Indeed the higher notes of the second part of the Penderyn melody mesh rather well with the pleading of our damsel to the Capn:
"Oh, please," begged the girl,
"Don't act like a churl

aaggh - midi's not allowed, so can't upload my midi.

OK - Barry Taylor's midi list here -
half way down tween J and L&T for some reason:

Rwy'n Caru'r Ferch o Blwyf Penderyn (The Maid From The Parish Of Penderyn)
http://www.redcoat.o...ch/wlshmenu.htm

Alas the dots are v diff to find anywhere (I ain't got the nous to do an ABC)except in the new Mabsant Welsh songbook, although perhaps someone may be able to make the midi turn into dots in reverse, through this (courtesy of mudcat).

"As for the dots, I download the midi files, and I load them into Noteworthy, which is available as a demo program for free, or can be bought for around $30 or so, and the midi shows up as dots and can be printed out, even from the demo programme. I bought it because it is a good basic/simple music notation programme and I use it a lot.

(No connection to the company, usual disclaimers)

Helen"ends

#17 Anglo-Irishman

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Posted 15 November 2011 - 03:56 PM

ONe needs to stretch some of the phrasing over a few notes (or vice versa) but otherwise the superb tune of the Maid of Penderyn works quite nicely with the new "The lost but now saved maid of Portsmouth" from Rudi and John.

Indeed the higher notes of the second part of the Penderyn melody mesh rather well with the pleading of our damsel to the Capn:
"Oh, please," begged the girl,
"Don't act like a churl

aaggh - midi's not allowed, so can't upload my midi.


Kautilya,
I'm working on it! I've already got two versions of a new tune hacked into Capella, and made MIDI exports of them - but like you said, MIDI's not allowed here. (Why not, BTW?)

That Welsh girl tune fits lines 1, 2, 4 and 5 of the Portsmouth Stowaway well enough, but its 3rd and 6th lines are too long. Tunes that really fit, with perhaps a little puckering here and there, but only in some verses, are "The Sweet Nightingale", the "Nightmare Song" from G+S's Iolanthe, and the hymn tune "Trust and Obey". Rüdiger chose a very elegant metre, which is used quite a lot. There being so many fitting tunes out there already makes it difficult to find one of your own without unintentional plagiarism. :ph34r:

Cheers,
John

#18 JimLucas

JimLucas

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:26 AM

I'm a sailor, and we sail to Australia tomorrow at first light

...sings her a song
of the palms and the fun
under Caribbean sun
"I'll make sure you'll be there before long!"

Wow!

Japan's 9.0 earthquake and tsunami last March must have been as nothing compared to the upheaval that moved Australia to the Caribbean (or vice versa)! :o :D




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