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Frozen Shoulder


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#1 michael sam wild

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 05:39 AM

Just out of interest. The frozen shoulder I suffered for 2 years just went away of its own accord over the Summer. That's the thrid time in my life . I's love to know what happens to those adhesions or whatever they are. I can do crawl again in the pool but am apprehensiveI may get the fiddle out again :unsure:

#2 dwinterfield

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 07:27 AM

I've had surgical reapirs to both shoulders so what follows is my understanding from talking to Docs, PTs etc rather than any actual medical knowledge.

Most pain and limitation in movement is from inflamation. The rotator cuff, biceps tendon, labrum etc. all come together in a pretty small space. If your anatomy isn't just right, they may be chaffing against each other. I had bone spurs on the under side of the the acromion bone leading to torn rotator cuffs after 60+ years of wear.

If you get frozen shoulder and it gets better, it may be inflamation that reduces when you stop to motion that caused it or take OTC anti-inflamatories. If it returns, there is probably some sort of structural issue that leads to the inflamation.

Shoulder problems are very common. The technoloy to fix them has improved immensely in the past 20 yrs. They can fix most of these issues. I've had surgery on each shoulder (2 yrs apart). The surgery was short and arthroscopic. No hospital time. The pain is significant, but managable with meds. The post surgery is essential but slow (6 months). The result is full range of motion in both shoulders, no pain and no limitation on any activity.

Good luck

#3 Bill N

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Posted 20 September 2011 - 11:49 AM

Just out of interest. The frozen shoulder I suffered for 2 years just went away of its own accord over the Summer. That's the thrid time in my life . I's love to know what happens to those adhesions or whatever they are. I can do crawl again in the pool but am apprehensiveI may get the fiddle out again :unsure:



I was suffering from the same thing and tried a number of remedies. Finally went to a sports clinic presided over by an Olympic team doctor! I received several cortizone shots in the shoulder, had my shoulder frozen while the physiotherapist (bi-weekly) put the joint trhough a full range of motion to break the adhesions, then had to do a fairly painful set of excercises everyday for about 3 months Initially my GP told me that it typically lasts from 18 months to 3 years, but the physio had me back at about 90% after about 6 months of immobility. None of the medicos could tell me what causes it. There is a chance it will come back. Happily, it didn't really effect my concertina playing.

#4 michael sam wild

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Posted 22 September 2011 - 06:23 AM

I did have to reduce my playing because of a very busy period so that might have helped. Now I am getting back into the concertina I may notice a difference. I hope the swimming helps.

One thing I've noticed is that people from countries other than UK seem to get access to keyhole investigation or MRI befoer serious surgery. or that my be just my friend's experience.

#5 michael sam wild

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Posted 18 November 2011 - 12:13 PM

I've found gym exercises and swimming crawl have really helped but the shoulder my have 'got better by itself' as happens. No need for steroid jab though.:)

#6 David Levine

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 09:17 AM

I have had a problem with adhesive capsulitis in my right shoulder for years - and I still do. But I am adverse to surgery, from which there is no going back. And I do not trust surgeons, although my TKR has been a total success. The shoulder problem may be exacerbated by gym workouts, which I feel I have to do at my age to thwart the long-term effects of gravity.
Two things have recently been of great benefit. First, walking briskly three-four miles a day. The gentle swinging motion is invaluable. And, second, single and double arm planks on my forearms. I hold the single arm for 30-45 seconds and the double arm for 45-60 seconds. This isometric exercise has helped to develop the small stabilizing muscles in the deltoid area.
I am a certified trainer and I am surprised that I haven't come across this protocol before.

.

#7 michael sam wild

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 06:56 AM

Thanks for the good advice David and great news about the knee, I'm dithering and watching my pal's progress with his two. If he can morris dance again I might be interested!
Could you explain the 'planks' and the weight you use.
I think the rotator cup has sorted itself out too. Fingers crossed ( luck not an exercise!)

#8 sidesqueeze

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 01:50 PM

A true frozen shoulder, adhesive capsulitis, is a mysterious thing. No surgery is appropriate, but it's often treated by manipulation under anesthesia. That means that you go to an operating room, receive anesthesia, and then the doctor moves your arm around to the full extent of its range of motion. This breaks the tiny adhesive fibers that have been tying down your shoulder. Usually there's no pain when you wake up and the problem is resolved.

For less serious adhesions, you can do the movements yourself under the guidence of a doctor and physical therapist. This may be difficult and painful, and you might still end up going for the manipulation under anesthesia.

Reasons for frozen shoulder are still not known, but people who are prone to this ara also prone to recurrence, in the same shoulder or on the opposite side. If you get frozen shoulder, it's important to do range of motion exercises for maintenance. Swimming sounds perfect!

Apologies to any who may disagree with this, and apologies if I sound like a know-it-all. Nobody likes a know-it all, according to my father, who knew it all. :rolleyes:

#9 David Levine

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Posted 15 December 2011 - 04:27 AM

Hi Mike-- I do have a true frozen shoulder, aka adhesive capsulitis. My range of motion, though better, has been limited ever since I damaged my right shoulder as a young boy. I find that playing the flute is occasionally painful and when I have played the concertina vigorously and for a long session I feel the strain.
This is The Plank. It is a well know yoga position. I don't know why this has been so helpful, but it has been of enormous benefit to me. I also find that the gentle swinging motion when I walk helps free up the shoulder. I try to walk between 20" and an hour a day.
As far as the knee goes, squats and lunges are what has restored the knee to nearly 100%.
These are different ways of doing squats, which strengthen the supporting muscles of the leg and butt. They are also known as deep-knee bends. They can be done with or without heavy weights and should always be done slowly and with total control of the weights (true in any resistance training). One should start with the ball squat, as shown in the picture in the chart.
When I do the squats I try to go down as low as I can: ass to the grass. I don't believe that the exercise should be done only half-way down. Physical therapists and body-builders disagree about this but personally I have found that it is best to go is as far down as possible without bouncing at the bottom. It is that bounce that can put a strain on, and potentially damage, cartilage and ligaments.
I try to walk about 5-10 miles a week and I lead a workout session in the gym three mornings a week. The workouts are very hard but working out hard is the only way to retain muscle mass, which otherwise withers away as one ages. The only disadvantage with being as active as I am at my age (73) is that I find late-night music sessions very difficult.

#10 Rod

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Posted 17 December 2011 - 01:50 PM

Hi Mike-- I do have a true frozen shoulder, aka adhesive capsulitis. My range of motion, though better, has been limited ever since I damaged my right shoulder as a young boy. I find that playing the flute is occasionally painful and when I have played the concertina vigorously and for a long session I feel the strain.
This is The Plank. It is a well know yoga position. I don't know why this has been so helpful, but it has been of enormous benefit to me. I also find that the gentle swinging motion when I walk helps free up the shoulder. I try to walk between 20" and an hour a day.
As far as the knee goes, squats and lunges are what has restored the knee to nearly 100%.
These are different ways of doing squats, which strengthen the supporting muscles of the leg and butt. They are also known as deep-knee bends. They can be done with or without heavy weights and should always be done slowly and with total control of the weights (true in any resistance training). One should start with the ball squat, as shown in the picture in the chart.
When I do the squats I try to go down as low as I can: ass to the grass. I don't believe that the exercise should be done only half-way down. Physical therapists and body-builders disagree about this but personally I have found that it is best to go is as far down as possible without bouncing at the bottom. It is that bounce that can put a strain on, and potentially damage, cartilage and ligaments.
I try to walk about 5-10 miles a week and I lead a workout session in the gym three mornings a week. The workouts are very hard but working out hard is the only way to retain muscle mass, which otherwise withers away as one ages. The only disadvantage with being as active as I am at my age (73) is that I find late-night music sessions very difficult.


Interesting David. You and I are the same age. I can happily regularly perform most of these sorts of exercises but my repertoire no longer includes the squat that you so charmingly describe as the 'arse to grass' version. A combination of weaker knees and dodgy balance has convinced me that this one is no longer doing me or my knee joints any favours. The half squat is now the one for me. I can never see the necessity for any of the gadgets and gismos that the trade are so anxious that we should purchase, and why are they always demonstrated by sprightly youngsters who probably have no need for them in the first place !

#11 David Levine

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 04:35 AM

Rod, it's great that you are keeping fit at your age. If I lower myself gently (without bouncing at the bottom) when I do the squats then I don't have a problem. I can't go down as low as I'd like to because of the mechanical limitation of my cobalt knee, but I do lower myself sufficiently to work the adductor muscles on the inner thigh. Slowly and deliberately is the way I like to play tunes and lift weights. Studies have shown that the knees are more stable when lowered past the 90 angle, as low as possible, rather than at the 90 angle. Partial squats are unstable. But this might not be true of everybody.

We put our gym together in an old shed on our land. The charge for the gym in town was about 500 a year. The money we spent on our own equipment is now easily covered by saving the money spent on gym membership and driving to town three days a week. I mostly agree about the gadgets. I use kettlebells and gymnnastic rings as basic tools. I also like dumbbells rather than barbells for chest workouts. And while we have a good weight bench we also use large exercise balls for some exercises. Our gym is fairly complete. When there are four or five of us in there at one time, having enough equipment means that nobody has to stand around watching and waiting for their turn on the bench.

We work out three times a week. Ten minutes of yoga, followed by ten minutes of Tabata exercises, followed by about 30"-40" of hard resistance training. Tabata is "just" a structured form of interval training. Our training is hard. The gym is not the place to take it easy! On the off days I try to walk for about a half hour at a good brisk pace. And I do rest one or two days a week. Rest is a vital part of working out and staying fit. If anybody reading this is ever in Co Clare give me a shout and join us for a morning workout. While our workouts aren't murderous, they are challenging. We laugh and have a great time.It's not at all like church!

#12 Rod

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Posted 23 December 2011 - 12:46 PM

Rod, it's great that you are keeping fit at your age. If I lower myself gently (without bouncing at the bottom) when I do the squats then I don't have a problem. I can't go down as low as I'd like to because of the mechanical limitation of my cobalt knee, but I do lower myself sufficiently to work the adductor muscles on the inner thigh. Slowly and deliberately is the way I like to play tunes and lift weights. Studies have shown that the knees are more stable when lowered past the 90 angle, as low as possible, rather than at the 90 angle. Partial squats are unstable. But this might not be true of everybody.

We put our gym together in an old shed on our land. The charge for the gym in town was about 500 a year. The money we spent on our own equipment is now easily covered by saving the money spent on gym membership and driving to town three days a week. I mostly agree about the gadgets. I use kettlebells and gymnnastic rings as basic tools. I also like dumbbells rather than barbells for chest workouts. And while we have a good weight bench we also use large exercise balls for some exercises. Our gym is fairly complete. When there are four or five of us in there at one time, having enough equipment means that nobody has to stand around watching and waiting for their turn on the bench.

We work out three times a week. Ten minutes of yoga, followed by ten minutes of Tabata exercises, followed by about 30"-40" of hard resistance training. Tabata is "just" a structured form of interval training. Our training is hard. The gym is not the place to take it easy! On the off days I try to walk for about a half hour at a good brisk pace. And I do rest one or two days a week. Rest is a vital part of working out and staying fit. If anybody reading this is ever in Co Clare give me a shout and join us for a morning workout. While our workouts aren't murderous, they are challenging. We laugh and have a great time.It's not at all like church!


David,.... having an energetic little dog I am allowed no respite from substantial walks up hill and down dale in all weathers on a daily basis and I reckon that the abundance of fresh clean air that accompanies those walks is a vital ingredient and adds immeasureably to the pleasure for both of us. I hope that your gymnasium has enough windows to allow for a howling gale to blow through, without of course taking you with it!




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