43 replies to this topic

[Stephen Chambers]

On the other hand, the fiddle has not been developed into a uniquely Irish form...

They had a shot at it though with the box/'russian' fiddles and the brass ones

"Cigar-box" fiddles and guitars have been made in many countries (including England and the United States), they're certainly not unique to Ireland, whilst "Russian" violins were the product of German factories, and a handful of brass fiddles were made in Donegal - but in the style of a "proper" violin.

There's nothing like (say) the Hardanger fiddle...



Though Donegal fiddlers might sometimes use similar tunings, but without the benefit of the sympathetic strings.

[shaunw]

Then there are people who are part of ITM. For these people Irish music is a dead historic thing which can never change because all change is bad, they think like this because they are also dead, brain dead at least.

Are you capable of saying anything without including some sort of insult?

I am only abrasive about ITM because to me it represents musical fascism and I detest fascism of any sort.
It is the ITM people who have tried to hijack Irish Traditional Music and tell musicians what they can
and cannot do. So guitars are out and you can only use an Irish (Anglo-German) concertina. Why do you
expect me to be nice to a small minded group of people with a defective sense of history who think they
are the only true guardians of what is and what isn't Irish music. Are you always so nice to fools?

[Stephen Chambers]

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=-Fj-1CqhHMk

Is this Irish Traditional Music? I don't think so. I don't care for it

David, of course it's not traditional Irish music - where on Earth did you get the idea that it might be? It's absolutely American, through and through. Technically good, professionally slick, and yet catchy - I quite like it (except for the just too American "messages from our sponsor" !)

Though I think Spade Cooley made a much better job of "swinging it up":



And I do care for it!

[Daniel Hersh]

Then there are people who are part of ITM. For these people Irish music is a dead historic thing which can never change because all change is bad, they think like this because they are also dead, brain dead at least.

Are you capable of saying anything without including some sort of insult?

I am only abrasive about ITM because to me it represents musical fascism and I detest fascism of any sort. It is the ITM people who have tried to hijack Irish Traditional Music and tell musicians what they can and cannot do. So guitars are out and you can only use an Irish (Anglo-German) concertina. Why do you
expect me to be nice to a small minded group of people with a defective sense of history who think they are the only true guardians of what is and what isn't Irish music. Are you always so nice to fools?

I try to be nice to people here even if I strongly disagree with them. What's to be gained by calling each other fools, fascists, etc.? You won't convince anyone of anything that way. All you are doing is poisoning the atmosphere in what's generally a friendly forum.

[Ruediger R. Asche]

Then there are people who are part of ITM. For these people Irish music is a dead historic thing which can never change because all change is bad, they think like this because they are also dead, brain dead at least.

Are you capable of saying anything without including some sort of insult?

I am only abrasive about ITM because to me it represents musical fascism and I detest fascism of any sort.
It is the ITM people who have tried to hijack Irish Traditional Music and tell musicians what they can
and cannot do. So guitars are out and you can only use an Irish (Anglo-German) concertina. Why do you
expect me to be nice to a small minded group of people with a defective sense of history who think they
are the only true guardians of what is and what isn't Irish music. Are you always so nice to fools?

I do believe that the issue Shaun raises (the friction between preservation on the one hand and keeping tradition alive and evolving on the other) is basically valid; however, I'm also sure that this, being at the heart of folklore, is one of the issues that has been discussed a bazillion times before, and all arguments have been shouted back and forth at least as many times.

I am one of those who tend to believe that any tradition that is not given a chance to evolve and go with the times is susceptible to distracting young people and will thereby fossilize. However, having read (among other things) Geoff's explanations, I have also come to understand that "the traditional way of things" bears many precious details that are well worth preserving and may fall victim to loss over time otherwise.

Thus, points for both points of view can be made. While I thoroughly enjoy, for example, Tony McManus's interpretations of traditional celtic music on the acoustic guitar, I understand that his music both drops instrumental idiosyncracies that can not be rendered on the guitar but by the same token creates new ones that may very well be defended as strongly in a hundred years from now as, for example, 19th century instrumentation is being defended by some today. At the end of the day, it's certainly not a question of right or wrong, but instead (as has been formulated before) a question of what an individual considers more important about music - purity or sustainability (hoping that the choice of words does not create misunderstandings - I wish I could come up with less biassed terms for the two positions; I do NOT consider either point ov view more or less valid than the other).

I just wish the debate could be a little bit more cultivated since, after all, we are discussing culture here, aren't we?

[Azalin]

So guitars are out and you can only use an Irish (Anglo-German) concertina.

You need to be more specific though. It has to be an anglo in C/G, not any other keys! In my boundless openness, I'll allow a bit of variation on the 'accidentals' row.

Edited by Azalin, 21 October 2010 - 04:08 AM.

[hjcjones]

Stephen, my comment about the harps and pipes was not meant entirely seriously, hence the smiley. However there was a serious underlying point: this discussion revolves around the idea of authenticity, but what is 'authentic' changes over time. Even within a tradition, innovation can happen, and probably will.

[Paul Schwartz]

Oh enough with these arguments already... If you want to play Irish music like Lawrence Welk & Co. then good for you. Mazeltov (as they say in Ireland). Take the mud-slinging to the usual forums that swim in such things please...

Thanks,

Paul