Jump to content


Photo

English or Anglo


  • This topic is locked This topic is locked
200 replies to this topic

#37 Azalin

Azalin

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Montreal, Canada

Posted 30 June 2010 - 11:30 AM

Are you claiming that shaunw is not competent to make that statement? If so, on what basis?


It's not exactly what I'm implying. I just think these opinions should be backed with some actual material, audio clips or else.

I have been playing and listening to ITM for 35 years, and playing ITM on the EC for over 15 years, and on that basis I can say that in actual fact, he is basically correct. I can't speak for duets, but neither the English concertina nor ITM have any characteristics which make them unsuitable for each other.


Interesting. I guess I'll have to take your word for it. I personally never been convinced of this, from the clips I heard before, but there's a few exceptions, and have been quite surprised now and then... but from all the ITM english concertina music I heard in the past few years, there was always a little 'something' missing in the music to make it punchy enough to blend in. I always suspected the layout of the instrument, and the fact that the buttons are more spread out, were the cause, but I can't say for sure and it's only a wild guess.

But there are many other reasons I think someone who wants to play ITM should use the anglo, and it's not only because of the actual instrument's capacity. You also have to think about classes, workshops, the ITM community, etc and take this into account when deciding. It depends if you're really intense about it, and willing to go to festivals and travel around the world to learn the music. If all you want is to pick up a few irish, english, scottish tunes and play for fun now and then, any type of concertina will do, otherwise I'd say it would be an advantage to pick the anglo.

#38 Lester Bailey

Lester Bailey

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 369 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Leafy Bucks, England

Posted 30 June 2010 - 01:17 PM

If all you want is to pick up a few irish, english, scottish tunes and play for fun now and then, any type of concertina will do, otherwise I'd say it would be an advantage to pick the anglo.


I try my best to stay out of ITM discussions but this is probably the condescending statement I have read here in years.

#39 Azalin

Azalin

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Montreal, Canada

Posted 30 June 2010 - 01:31 PM

I try my best to stay out of ITM discussions but this is probably the condescending statement I have read here in years.


Well, I'll try to contact the Guinness Book of Record and see if I can get in their 2011 edition :lol:

EDIT: Seriously though, as a friend of mine pointed out, I find the best post about the subject is from Geoff Wooff at the beginning of the thread. It's full of wisdom, and written by someone who definitely lived and breathed the tradition for quite a while. I would love to hear him play english, something's telling me I'd be quite awestruck :-)

Edited by Azalin, 30 June 2010 - 03:01 PM.


#40 Stiamh

Stiamh

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 102 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Montreal

Posted 30 June 2010 - 03:04 PM

If all you want is to pick up a few irish, english, scottish tunes and play for fun now and then, any type of concertina will do, otherwise I'd say it would be an advantage to pick the anglo.


I try my best to stay out of ITM discussions but this is probably the [most] condescending statement I have read here in years.


He gives good value, doesn't he?

Reading this whole thread for the first time now, I think it could have stopped after Geoff Wooff's post, which I think answered the original question very well. (Bonjour Geoff!)

But for playing your jazz scales, hyp, clearly what you really want is what I play - a diatonic accordion in C#/D. Great for Irish music, push pull all the way, and C# major is a breeze. (Ahem. Wish I could say the same about a few other jazz keys though :rolleyes: )

Steve
(Eagerly waiting for my vintage English concertina to be restored just so I can p!ss Azalin off even more than I do with a button box. )

#41 Azalin

Azalin

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Montreal, Canada

Posted 30 June 2010 - 03:12 PM

(Eagerly waiting for my vintage English concertina to be restored just so I can p!ss Azalin off even more than I do with a button box. )


In Montreal, we have an english player who picked up the C#/D accordion... and a C#/D accordion player who will pick the english... I think I'll start playing the big piano accordion and avenge myself ;-)

#42 m3838

m3838

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2629 posts

Posted 30 June 2010 - 06:23 PM

I have been playing and listening to ITM for 35 years, and playing ITM on the EC for over 15 years, and on that basis I can say that in actual fact, he is basically correct. I can't speak for duets, but neither the English concertina nor ITM have any characteristics which make them unsuitable for each other.



It's perfectly adequate conclusion. What can be argued with it? It seems to me that people who are overly immersed in narrow folk tradition, begin to hear more in it, but lose relative scale of things.
They begin to get attached to certain cliches, expect to hear what they learned to expect and begin to dismiss what they perceive as intrusion. We all are like that to some degree, of course.
Why EC should sound like AC? It shouldn't.
Can it be used in ITM? Sure.
Will it be indistinguishable from AC? Who cares?
Is EC more versatile than AC? Not really.
Can it play in more keys? Sure.
Does it matter? Nope.
Can EC beat AC in accompaniment? Nope.
Does it matter? Nope.
If one wants to play ONLY ITM and plans to take classes from famous AC players, should he/she pick EC? No, it will be counterproductive.
If one can't afford several instruments and wants his ITM instrument also play modern compositions, Jazz, classical, other styles, is AC going to provide such utility? NO, NO and once more NO.
In above case, what Concertina system can provide the most? Duet. It's equally suited for melody only and for chordal work, for EC style and for complex piano arrangements.
What Duet system to pick? That's the question to ponder.
Which Duet system is:
a. More affordable
b. More available
c. Has more range in smaller body
d. Has school of playing on high level.
Looks like good old Macann is the winner here.
But that's logic. Who cares about logic in real life?




#43 shaunw

shaunw

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 102 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, England

Posted 30 June 2010 - 09:16 PM

Wow, we're on page two now. Thank you for all the replies. I just wanted to say, that as someone already said, the ITM was the reason I got interested in concertina playing. I just want to be able to at least try to play jazz because I know, that if I get good enough, that I would probably try playing jazz standards and improvisation. I was only looking for the possibility in playing all the notes needed. I am aware, that the pushing and pulling of the bellow might result in bad emphasis (i.e. emphazising down beats). I don't know how great this effect is. Also I don'tknow how much harder it is to play i.e. a c# major scale on an anglo or english concertina. If both were similar in difficulty I probably would decide on an anglo, because of ITM. If it is nearly impossible to play a c#maj scale on an anglo it would probably be the other way round.

Hyp


The only reason that the Anglo became the most common concertina in Irish, English and Scottish folk music is the fact
that it was cheap. It had fewer reeds, pads and buttons so it was cheap to make and cheap to buy. The fact that it can't
play in every key or play all the chords didn't really matter to poor musicians, they couldn't afford anything better.

If you are really serious about playing jazz then you won't be able to do this on an Anglo. However as some people have
pointed out if you want to go to ITM workshops you will find that the Anglo is the common instrument. On the other
hand if you can read music you don't need to go to these workshops and it you want to play jazz standards then
you will have to read music because there are no jazz workshops and on the whole good jazz musicians all read music.

What I have really enjoyed about this discussion is the fact that people are now starting to make really silly
statements such as 'I have never heard a convincing rendition of ITM on an EC or Duet concertina.
To those people I would like to put this question. Have you ever heard a convincing rendition of ITM on an English
violin or a French violin? Do you need an Irish violin to get the right sound? Can you play ITM on a Russian piano
or must it be an Irish piano. Are Irish violin players just trying to emulate the sound of an Anglo concertina and
failing to do so.

Of course ITM on an Anglo will sound different to ITM on an EC or ITM on a Duet but they are all playing ITM
and one is not more valid than the other. Just because you are used to the sound of ITM on an Anglo don't fool
yourself into thinking that it is more Irish. If anything ITM played on an Anglo sounds too German, too oompa-oompa,
to my ears and I long for the more lyrical sound of the violin or the EC. I feel the same way about English folk
music played on an Anglo. But this is a matter of taste and I am sure that some players can play ITM sensitively
on an Anglo.

I wonder what O'Carolyn would think about all this. Of course he never got to hear the 'Irish concertina with
its characteristic bounce' and I'll bet he didn't miss it either.

Now the Anglo is no longer cheap, in fact a good Anglo can cost more than a good EC. If you can afford it you
could buy both. If you can't then buying the wrong one could be an expensive mistake.

Now I know that logic and real life are not the same but lets try to keep just a little bit of logic in our real
lives.

#44 Stiamh

Stiamh

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 102 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Montreal

Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:32 AM

What I have really enjoyed about this discussion is the fact that people are now starting to make really silly statements such as 'I have never heard a convincing rendition of ITM on an EC or Duet concertina.'


I don't see what is silly about a person expressing an honest opinion about his own tastes. (Regardless of whether I hold the same opinion or not.) After all, the statement is not, "ITM can never be played convincingly on an EC," but "I have never heard..."

Now I _have_ heard at least one EC player render Irish dance music convincingly. So yes it is possible. But I think it is extremely hard to do, and the great majority of people who attempt the task, well, fail to sound satisfactory. To my ears, of course. If not to yours, then let's agree to differ.

Cheers
Steve J

PS I think your analogies about French and English violins are a red herring. Nobody is arguing the difference between an English-system concertina made in one country and one made in another country...

PPS Lots of people fail to play Irish music convincingly on Anglos, too. Choosing the more suitable instrument will not automatically confer a sufficient understanding of the music in question, or the skill needed, to do it justice ;)

#45 Geoff Wooff

Geoff Wooff

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 01 July 2010 - 07:29 AM

Bonjour aussi,
to those kind souls from Montreal who were positive about my post. I think I know who you are!
Will we see any of you at Tocane this year ? Keep this venue a secret.... but for the best week of sessions, I know of no other. Last year Gabi and I stayed up all night and played from 10pm 'till 6am for 7 days in a row. It is hard going now I'm over 60 but someone has to do it!
I heard you are/or were in France Steve (if I have the right Steve), that right?

I do not think O'Carolan would mind all these modern instruments and would not care if it was an EC player or AC player as long as they paid for the drinks.
Geoff.

#46 Azalin

Azalin

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 970 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Montreal, Canada

Posted 01 July 2010 - 11:04 AM

Bonjour aussi,
to those kind souls from Montreal who were positive about my post. I think I know who you are!
Will we see any of you at Tocane this year ? Keep this venue a secret.... but for the best week of sessions, I know of no other. Last year Gabi and I stayed up all night and played from 10pm 'till 6am for 7 days in a row. It is hard going now I'm over 60 but someone has to do it!
I heard you are/or were in France Steve (if I have the right Steve), that right?

I do not think O'Carolan would mind all these modern instruments and would not care if it was an EC player or AC player as long as they paid for the drinks.
Geoff.


Hello Geoff... you are right about "Zizi" but I don't think you know who I am... I think I have met you once, maybe 9 years ago, in Maine... I just started playing irish music at the time. I hope you're having a great time in France, and that you don't miss Miltown too much ;-)

I was telling Zizi that english concertinas and irish music are like UFOs to me, I can't believe it until I "see" it... but knowing you play the english is the only argument I need to be convinced. So please don't tell me aliens or God exist or it could put my world in tatters :blink:

#47 jileha

jileha

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 44 posts
  • Location:California

Posted 01 July 2010 - 11:49 AM

This claim crops up at regular intervals.

Of course, it's possible to play ITM on an English concertina. But why would you invest in one instrument with the goal to emulate another one? Why not go with the second one in the first place? At any Irish concertina workshop (particularly in Ireland), you'd be the odd one out with an English and you'd be pretty much left to your own devices on particular technical issues.

And although it is possible to play Irish traditional music on an English concertina, in most cases it still will sound like an English concertina - just compare the aforementioned Simone Thoumire's playing with that of well known players of the Anglo concertina such as Noel Hill, Edel Fox, Kate McNamara, Micheal O Raghallaigh, etc. A lot of the differences comes from the pulse and bounce, which is so important for ITM. Also, the Anglo concertina in ITM has its own set of ornamentation, which makes the Anglo playing very characteristic. If it's the Anglo concertina that attracted you to Irish traditional music, go with an Anglo.

Sorry, but what gives you the idea that the EC has to be indistinguishable from the Anglo when playing ITM?


I've never said it "has to be indistinguishable", but just that in most cases it will be clearly distinguishable. That is, since Hyp got interested in the concertina in ITM by listening to players such as Noel Hill, s/he might end up being disappointed because s/he won't be able to reproduce the typical sound/style/rhythm/ornamentation which attracted him/her in the first place. On the contrary, it is the many well-meant repetitions of advice to go with an English concertina that incorrectly imply that ITM on the English concertina is indistinguishable from ITM played on an Anglo.

I am aware, that the pushing and pulling of the bellow might result in bad emphasis (i.e. emphasizing down beats).

You should be able to emphasize or "de-emphasize" whatever individual note you want on either Anglo or English. A necessary change of bellows direction on the Anglo doesn't always coincide with a down beat but can occur at any place in the tune. It's the tune (or your interpretation thereof) that tells you which notes to emphasize and which not, not the instrument.

So how does the oh-so-important-for-ITM Anglo "pulse and bounce" fit into this last paragraph? Or did you just contradict yourself?

Jonathan

Where do you see a contradiction? You can theoretically get the pulse and bounce on the English concertina, although almost all players that I've heard play ITM on the English don't. Maybe it's because the "convenience" of being able just to keep pulling or pushing in one direction until you run out of bellow folds is too tempting. From the Anglo perspective: Maybe because the Anglo player has to learn to implement bellows changes at odd places right from the start it is easier and more natural to learn to integrate the bellows into one's playing than with the English. Hyp just seemed under the impression that the Anglo provides some automatic mechanism for emphasizing down beats.

But although pulse and bounce is very important, there are other elements of the Anglo style, particularly the ornamentation, crans, octaving, etc.

My main point is: If you're attracted to a particular style played on a particular instrument, it doesn't make much sense to pick up a different variety of that instrument which most likely will not result in the style that attracted you in the first place. I also think that, if you have been playing ITM on other instruments for a while, playing ITM on EC might come easier as well since you can transfer many aspects to the new instrument. Starting out in ITM on an EC will most likely increase the difficulties.

By now there have been some additional views regarding the difficulty of playing ITM convincingly on an EC, but I thought this pretty much unanimous support of the EC was just a bit misleading and might create the wrong expectations.



The only reason that the Anglo became the most common concertina in Irish, English and Scottish folk music is the fact
that it was cheap. It had fewer reeds, pads and buttons so it was cheap to make and cheap to buy. The fact that it can't
play in every key or play all the chords didn't really matter to poor musicians, they couldn't afford anything better.

Sure, it was pretty much a coincidence that the Anglo is nowadays the instrument of choice for ITM. But all the restrictions of the AC have contributed to its particular style.

If you are really serious about playing jazz then you won't be able to do this on an Anglo. However as some people have
pointed out if you want to go to ITM workshops you will find that the Anglo is the common instrument. On the other
hand if you can read music you don't need to go to these workshops and it you want to play jazz standards then
you will have to read music because there are no jazz workshops and on the whole good jazz musicians all read music.


Sure, if you are really serious about playing ITM on concertina, you can play it on either English or Anlgo, no doubt, but if you are really serious about playing ITM in a particular style close to that of Noel Hill, Edel Fox, Micheal O Raghallaigh etc., you'd be better off with an Anglo. That's what Hyp has to find out and decide for him/herself.

If you can read music you don't need to go to these workshops? Pardon me!? You seem to imply that playing ITM is just playing the notes of tunes commonly played in ITM. But you need more than just the notes, you need the style. And for the style, the Anglo is by default better suited because its peculiarities have shaped that style. And in order to learn that style, you need to be exposed as much as possible to that style by listening to recordings and, if possible, by instruction as in workshops.

Of course ITM on an Anglo will sound different to ITM on an EC or ITM on a Duet but they are all playing ITM
and one is not more valid than the other.


It's not a question of validity. EC is just as valid as AC, but if you're after a specific style than you should look more closely into that instrument that plays that specific style.

Now the Anglo is no longer cheap, in fact a good Anglo can cost more than a good EC. If you can afford it you
could buy both. If you can't then buying the wrong one could be an expensive mistake.

Exactly. That's why I think the many voices in support of the EC might be just a tad misleading! :P

#48 michael sam wild

michael sam wild

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2641 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Shireoaks, Notts, UK

Posted 01 July 2010 - 12:00 PM

If that was you at The Royal at Dungworth near Sheffield the other year Jonathan I'd say you play Irish music with as much stykle and feeling for the tradition as anyone I've heard. I think there are quite alot of EC players who I'd be proud to sound like ( I play Anglo) , as I've already said I know some fine players who could hold their own. I wish they'd comment on this discussion.

#49 Geoff Wooff

Geoff Wooff

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 2097 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:France

Posted 01 July 2010 - 01:20 PM

[Hello Geoff... you are right about "Zizi" but I don't think you know who I am... I think I have met you once, maybe 9 years ago, in Maine... I just started playing irish music at the time. I hope you're having a great time in France, and that you don't miss Miltown too much ;-)

I was telling Zizi that english concertinas and irish music are like UFOs to me, I can't believe it until I "see" it... but knowing you play the english is the only argument I need to be convinced. So please don't tell me aliens or God exist or it could put my world in tatters :blink:
[/quote]
Hi Azalin,
Maine ? Hmm the tee shirt says 2002 ( its an American XL so I use it as a night shirt) but I did not bring the Concertina (yes I know, DUCK) because it was a "piping weekend".

However, you are too kind... drinks are on me. Yes I do miss Miltown, greatly. It was such a privilege to spend years there playing regularly with the "old" musicians, trying to absorb "The Gimp".

I think it is much more important for the Concertina player (learner in ITM) to listen most closely to the other instruments of that tradition, Fiddle, Flute, Pipes etc.,than just to study concertina players.

Once upon a time Zizi and I departed from Miltown after the Willie Clancy Summer School, twas '85 I think. We were heading back to London
and we had plenty of time to catch the Ferry. Says Zizi to me "you know, we had a good week but I was unlucky not to see enough of the old fiddle players, the "Legends". OK says I lets go down through East Clare ,call in on Martin Roachford.
Well I could tell you about the feeling that the fairies came out of the walls of Martins kitchen to dance when he played the fiddle... but I won't. We left there on a musical high and, needing refreshment,called in at a local hostelry. Being told there that Vincent Griffin would be 'playing tonight"( another famous fiddler) we ordered a second pint.
All this is very well and,of course, Mr.Griffin was great too, but there was also another old fiddler that night who joined the session. Nobody famous I'm sure I hardly remember his name (Anthony...... something) BUT!! He played beautifull music and without one single grace note!!
That man played as good as I have ever heard and the point I wish to make is that these days there is too much emphasis on "technique" and not enough on the music. It can be so bad that, I think, some players cannot separate "the tune" from "the decorations".

So, the possibilities for grace note decoration are different on the AC and the EC, the music will sound different but good music should be our aim whatever choices we make... try our best and let others be the judges.

PS; Zizi was, at the time of my story, very much a fiddler.
Geoff.(Alien ?.... possibly).

Edited by Geoff Wooff, 01 July 2010 - 01:21 PM.


#50 David Levine

David Levine

    Heavyweight Boxer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPip
  • 996 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Co Clare, Ireland / Hopkinton, NH, USA

Posted 01 July 2010 - 01:55 PM

I don't care enough about this to disagree with anybody. I agree mostly with Az. I have no dog in this fight.
Just this to say: I played English concertina for ten years before falling love with Mikilín Conlon's and Chris Droney's music and the anglo concertina. I sold the English, bought the anglo, and have never looked back.
To do right by ITM, and to fit into a good session, requires a lot of dedication and a single-minded absorption in the tradition. The old 10,000 hour thing. If you play the occasional Irish tune as a passing fancy in between jazz tunes and the odd blues number, it won't ring true any more than if you learned just the occasional blues number. To be merely competent in either tradition requires enormous focus. So if you're not going to have that single-mindedness in pursuit of playing the music as it is played by people who are accomplished in the tradition, then it won't matter whether you play Anglo or English. The English concertina is a lot easier, and cheaper, though probably not as satisfying if your goal is to become an accomplished player of ITM.

#51 m3838

m3838

    Ineluctable Opinionmaker

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2629 posts

Posted 01 July 2010 - 02:11 PM

Exactly. That's why I think the many voices in support of the EC might be just a tad misleading! :P


You forgot the idea of playing melody jazz improvisations and other music, coming from someone who wants to make a living of it.
It's different from 99% of C.net population. Makes the question complicated. Narrowly settled people, who are satisfied by just one music style, may customary ignore half of the question. It's why I stuck with the English. It's small, chromatic, simple to read with and potentially versatile. I'm not in awe with it's ergonomics or sound. But portability and intimacy (coming from small size) makes simple melody sound more interesting. My natural kinematic inclination though, is push pull diatonic instruments. They feel more robust and easy to jump into any play and join in.
As for ITM and it's true style, all is bull crap. I'm from Russia, used to sing folk songs with my balalaika playing friend, had good singing and performing demeanor etc. There are only a few russian groups and performers, who can claim to scratch the surface of folk tradition. The rest is all make belief.
Analogy with Noel Hill is exact. Expensive hand made instruments, good music education, detachment from working class, professional performance for living -- is as far from tradition as it gets. I may venture to say that those who believe Noel Hill and the cohort are representing true ITM (what a stupid abbreviation) are a tad... mmm... simple. He represents his own style, and his own only. It's great style, he's superb musician, developing his music IN THE STYLE of once common folk tradition, but that's it. To demonstrate my idea, I'd like to give you two youtube clips.
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related ----------------- State chorus in folk style. Russian Noel Hill
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related ------------------- Academic chorus of professionals, singing folk song. Russian Nial Valley (sp?)
http://www.youtube.c...feature=related --------------- folk singer, accompanying herself on guitar. Anybody who just likes folk tradition, lives in it. Cares less about correct style and instrument.

Edited by m3838, 01 July 2010 - 07:57 PM.


#52 Hyp

Hyp

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts
  • Gender:Male

Posted 01 July 2010 - 03:51 PM

I really regret that I have mentioned a C# Major scale. It was just meant as an example of a not so commonly used scale. If you don't play Giant Steps all day long, you don't need all keys in jazz all the time. It's not that playing keys with more sharps and flats is easier on piano. You still have to get used to them quite a bit. I guess what really was behind this question is probably not tested by anyone here, because nobody felt the need to get the feeling of beeing at home in c#maj.

This is at least what happened with my piano playing. I guess it is like that on any Instrument. If you played something really often you start feeling at home. And most players don't seem to try playing in something further from the home keys. Of course I may be wrong. This would be up to you.

What I don't understand is that you say that english concertina is cheaper than anglo. From what I found they are about the same in the beginner ranges, and this is what matters to a beginning player. After all you can only buy decent instruments if you play them. At least if you do it by yourself. So buying cheaper ones in the beginning to not have as much as an investment is a good idea..

#53 Ransom

Ransom

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 351 posts
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Utah [GMT -7:00]

Posted 01 July 2010 - 05:16 PM

Several dealers offer a full-price trade-in program for the Jackie and Rochelle models (English and Anglo respectively). Maybe ask somebody if you could buy both, decide which one you want to play, and trade them both in for a better model of the type you choose. Or find some other way to try one of each for a little bit. I bet Button Box can rent you something if you ask.

#54 TomB-R

TomB-R

    Chatty concertinist

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 302 posts

Posted 01 July 2010 - 06:01 PM

That man played as good as I have ever heard and the point I wish to make is that these days there is too much emphasis on "technique" and not enough on the music. It can be so bad that, I think, some players cannot separate "the tune" from "the decorations".

As to your first point, fair enough, as to the second, I think what is really a problem is when the "ornamentation" ceases to serve, and be part of, the music! (Hence those who prefer to see ornamentation as part of the tune, not separate.)

Edited by TomB-R, 01 July 2010 - 06:04 PM.





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users