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For sale: Dipper County Clare C/G


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#37 colledge

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 09:35 PM

Meg, I agree with you 100%. Buyer should pay for shipping, and all related expenses. Buyer has to make the US amount available to you, conversion is their problem, not yours.

Quite honnestly, I think you should sell it on eBay. You could have a minimum bid of $6300, and a BUY IT NOW of $10000 (or a bit less if you want to be realistic...). Putting it on Ebay will help you not to have to deal with sneaky people, for one thing.

If she's asking for an offer of US$10,000, I would think that conversion to anything else would be her problem.

Meg, I'm sure the folks who low balled you are simply checking to see how badly you need to sell and how low you'll go, likely because they will attempt to turn a profit. There's nothing wrong with telling you to take it or leave it. If it's not enough just leave it.

I hope you get $10,000 for it. It's beautiful, unique, and probably not the kind you could get them to make anymore. It looks like a modern relic. Even if you really need the money, I wouldn't go below US$8,000

#38 colledge

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Posted 20 June 2010 - 11:00 PM

Buyer has to make the US amount available to you, conversion is their problem, not yours.


Sorry Azalin, my bad. She's in US.

#39 tombilly

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Posted 23 June 2010 - 04:38 AM

Think globally and buy (sell) locally - that's sound advice. If you have a decent offer from someone locally whom you personally know would make good use of such an instrument, then sell it to them.

#40 Erik Murray

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Posted 25 June 2010 - 06:13 AM

I don't think making a take it or leave it offer should be considered a tactic, in a negative sense. Conducting an auction here is as much a tactic and I have no real problem with any of it.

That said, I participate in a woodworking machine forum where auctions are not allowed in the buy and sell. You have to give a price. If it doesn't sell you can lower the price. It seems to work and in general those forums have the least bickering about nonsense and misunderstanding that I've seen anywhere in such forums.

Nice concertina, good luck with the sale.

E

#41 s2maur

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Posted 27 June 2010 - 09:25 PM

That said, I participate in a woodworking machine forum where auctions are not allowed in the buy and sell. You have to give a price. If it doesn't sell you can lower the price. It seems to work and in general those forums have the least bickering about nonsense and misunderstanding that I've seen anywhere in such forums.

Nice concertina, good luck with the sale.

E


Erik, this makes a lot of sense to me. I think that it is a policy that should be considered for the c.net "Buy and Sell" forum. It would eliminate a lot of anguish on the part of the seller as well as the interested buyers.

Wonder what Paul Schwartz would think about applying this kind of policy?

Steve

Edited by s2maur, 27 June 2010 - 09:25 PM.


#42 JimLucas

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 01:58 AM

That said, I participate in a woodworking machine forum where auctions are not allowed in the buy and sell. You have to give a price. If it doesn't sell you can lower the price. It seems to work and in general those forums have the least bickering about nonsense and misunderstanding that I've seen anywhere in such forums.

Erik, this makes a lot of sense to me. I think that it is a policy that should be considered for the c.net "Buy and Sell" forum. It would eliminate a lot of anguish on the part of the seller as well as the interested buyers.

Wonder what Paul Schwartz would think about applying this kind of policy?

Well, you can always ask him.

But like so many things, there are folks here who will agree with you, and folks who won't. And each side will have their reasons.

For that matter, I seem to recall that the bulk of the "bickering" here has not been about auction vs. fixed price, but over the actual prices asked. As for "anguish on the part of the seller", a seller can suffer a great deal of anguish if they don't really know "current market value" and discover too late that they set their initial asking price too low. The "best offer at or above..." method can prevent that.

#43 Theo

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 03:56 AM

That said, I participate in a woodworking machine forum where auctions are not allowed in the buy and sell. You have to give a price. If it doesn't sell you can lower the price. It seems to work and in general those forums have the least bickering about nonsense and misunderstanding that I've seen anywhere in such forums.

Nice concertina, good luck with the sale.

E



But that is also an auction ie a method of selling designed to match the seller with the buyer willing to pay the highest price. The type know as a "Dutch auction"

#44 s2maur

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 05:25 AM

Before listing one's concertina, they would be wise to put on their suit of thick skin, determine the maximum price they would desire, form a list of as much information and history about the concertina and caution themselves to only respond to questions relating to the instrument.

Then after the instrument is posted for sale, it would become the responsibility of all c.net members, not seriously considering the purchase of the instrument, to kindly sit on their hands and not open up the listing to a public debate about its pricing.

Since the "Buy and Sell" forum is a classified section of the c.net discussion forum, I personally think that any discussion about the pricing being too high would be an interference to and an undermining of the sellers objectives. Would any of the members here consider going to a car lot, finding a car that, in their opinion, was overly priced and stand next to the salesperson and an interested buyer and continually interrupt the possible sale by blurting out how the car lot was asking too much for the car?

I hope that we can all show a little restraint for future "Buy and Sell" listings and take the debate over the pricing of a fellow c.net member's concertina to "General Concertina Discussion".

This is just my opinion about how it needs to be on the Buy and Sell.

Steve

#45 David Levine

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Posted 28 June 2010 - 08:28 AM

Re: posting instruments for sale. This is taken from another forum. I think this is a good way to go. It addresses some of the issues mentioned here.

This forum is a service for members. The forum takes no part in sales and takes no responsibility for them. We can make no assurances that instruments being sold here are as described, or that they will be delivered. We cannot assure that purchasers will pay as promised. In other words, you are on your own.

Only direct user-to-user offers are permitted. No third-party offers, please.

It is against the rules of this forum to comment on the forum about the instruments listed by others or the prices posted.


Those who post here may be contacted by email or PM or other means, but not by replying to posts.

All other forum rules posted elsewhere apply here. Please include the proper prefix to the subject line of your post: FS (For Sale), WTB (Wanted to Buy), FT (For Trade), WTT (Wanted to Trade), eBay.


#46 tombilly

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 05:07 AM

Is that not stretching things a bit too far, in favour of the seller, David? We all know the web is full of scammers as well as genuine people with varying degrees of experience. Suppose someone comes on here, chancing their arm, charging way over the odds for a dodgy instrument. Let's suppose a novice, of whom many visit here, spots this and thinks to buy it. Surely you and others who know of these things have a 'moral' duty to flag this. If purchasers can only deal by private mail and everybody else is forbidden to comment publicly - that's a recipe for a ripoff.

Sometimes, in places like this I see what I regard as something dodgy and a propsective saying they'll PM the seller - in which case I drop a PM to the purchaser with a note of caution. But that only works when people flag their interest publicly. If I want to buy an instrument then I don't advertise the fact. I just send a quiet PM on the side.

There has to be a balance - I think it is right and proper for people to be able to comment on prices. The sellers may not like it - in which case, advertise somewhere else..

#47 JimLucas

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Posted 30 June 2010 - 05:32 AM

There has to be a balance - I think it is right and proper for people to be able to comment on prices. The sellers may not like it - in which case, advertise somewhere else..

And sometimes the sellers do like it... as when one of our respected experts (whether a restorer or a player) recommends an instrument that they are personally familiar with.

#48 megmcd2

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 06:10 PM

It seems we have a curious situation. Various people have written here that my Dipper is worth US$8,000-$10,000, and that I should not accept less than US$8,000. And a lot of people are reading this thread; I assume that some of you are interested in purchasing my concertina.

Yet the highest legitimate offer I've received is US$6,300.

Are the "snipers" waiting to make late offers? Are people still out there who'd like to buy this instrument but are negotiating with their mates/examining their accounts/selling their homes/sending their children to work?

I'd appreciate hearing (by private message) from anyone who wants to buy this concertina at a price higher than the best offer I've received.

#49 CaryK

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 07:04 PM

It seems we have a curious situation. Various people have written here that my Dipper is worth US$8,000-$10,000, and that I should not accept less than US$8,000. And a lot of people are reading this thread; I assume that some of you are interested in purchasing my concertina.

Yet the highest legitimate offer I've received is US$6,300.

Are the "snipers" waiting to make late offers? Are people still out there who'd like to buy this instrument but are negotiating with their mates/examining their accounts/selling their homes/sending their children to work?

I'd appreciate hearing (by private message) from anyone who wants to buy this concertina at a price higher than the best offer I've received.


You Dipper mays be worth at least $8000, I wouldn't argue with that at all. The lack of offers approaching that figure may just be a function of the poor economic conditions at this time.

#50 Greg Jowaisas

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Posted 02 July 2010 - 07:35 PM

It seems we have a curious situation. Various people have written here that my Dipper is worth US$8,000-$10,000, and that I should not accept less than US$8,000. And a lot of people are reading this thread; I assume that some of you are interested in purchasing my concertina.

Yet the highest legitimate offer I've received is US$6,300.

Are the "snipers" waiting to make late offers? Are people still out there who'd like to buy this instrument but are negotiating with their mates/examining their accounts/selling their homes/sending their children to work?

I'd appreciate hearing (by private message) from anyone who wants to buy this concertina at a price higher than the best offer I've received.


You Dipper mays be worth at least $8000, I wouldn't argue with that at all. The lack of offers approaching that figure may just be a function of the poor economic conditions at this time.


I agree with Cary that current economic conditions may be a factor. A little over three years ago several Dippers went for $7000. plus on ebay. And three + years ago a number of prospective buyers might have been waving similar amounts of money vying and clamoring for your concertina.

Three years and some months ago, at least in the general public perception the housing market was still rising and the stock market booming and Ireland was buying a ton of top notch anglos. Presently a lot of folks are holding on to their money, some worried about future job prospects or an upside down mortgage and some wondering if their 401K will wither and not fund their retirement. Ireland has adopted an austerity program and many there are feeling the pinch. So some of the earnest estimates of what your concertina should bring may be based on the not too distant past but when a totally different economic climate and feeling was in play.

You have a quality concertina. It is very doubtful that anyone will produce one of similar quality for less than what you paid for it. In that regard it is indeed money in the bank. If you do not really need to sell it and no one is willing to meet your price then why not wait for a better time to sell and play it in the meantime? Now there is some potential enjoyment that gives you a return on your investment everyday.

Greg

I should add that concertina.net is probably not the only potential market place (although my favorite) for your instrument. Ebay has its own following and there may be another way to alert an Irish buyer with the means that your Dipper is available.

Edited by Greg Jowaisas, 02 July 2010 - 07:41 PM.


#51 Theo

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 02:52 AM

It seems we have a curious situation. Various people have written here that my Dipper is worth US$8,000-$10,000, and that I should not accept less than US$8,000. And a lot of people are reading this thread; I assume that some of you are interested in purchasing my concertina.

Yet the highest legitimate offer I've received is US$6,300.

Are the "snipers" waiting to make late offers? Are people still out there who'd like to buy this instrument but are negotiating with their mates/examining their accounts/selling their homes/sending their children to work?

I'd appreciate hearing (by private message) from anyone who wants to buy this concertina at a price higher than the best offer I've received.


Another relevant feature of the market for top quality concertinas is that the total number of potential buyers is tiny. Certainly not enough to enable a quick sale to always realise its full value. I've recently experienced this effect in action with two expensive instruments I've had for sale on my website. In both cases I had studied the market and set a price that I considered a fair reflection of current value. In both cases the instruments were on offer for months, in one case nearly a year, and had been in display at a festival too. In both cases the sale happened out of the blue when the buyer phoned me and was happy to pay the asking price.

The point I'm making is that because the number of potential buyers is tiny you may have a long wait for the right buyer to come along. So I'm in agreement with Greg that you have to be patient if you want to realise the top price. It's only been advertised for a month. If you need a quick sale you may have to accept less, but that's life.

#52 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 10:51 AM

I agree with Cary that current economic conditions may be a factor. A little over three years ago several Dippers went for $7000. plus on ebay. And three + years ago a number of prospective buyers might have been waving similar amounts of money vying and clamoring for your concertina.

Three years and some months ago, at least in the general public perception the housing market was still rising and the stock market booming and Ireland was buying a ton of top notch anglos. Presently a lot of folks are holding on to their money, some worried about future job prospects or an upside down mortgage and some wondering if their 401K will wither and not fund their retirement. Ireland has adopted an austerity program and many there are feeling the pinch. So some of the earnest estimates of what your concertina should bring may be based on the not too distant past but when a totally different economic climate and feeling was in play.

You have a quality concertina. It is very doubtful that anyone will produce one of similar quality for less than what you paid for it. In that regard it is indeed money in the bank. If you do not really need to sell it and no one is willing to meet your price then why not wait for a better time to sell and play it in the meantime? Now there is some potential enjoyment that gives you a return on your investment everyday.

Greg

I should add that concertina.net is probably not the only potential market place (although my favorite) for your instrument. Ebay has its own following and there may be another way to alert an Irish buyer with the means that your Dipper is available.

Another relevant feature of the market for top quality concertinas is that the total number of potential buyers is tiny. Certainly not enough to enable a quick sale to always realize its full value. I've recently experienced this effect in action with two expensive instruments I've had for sale on my website. In both cases I had studied the market and set a price that I considered a fair reflection of current value. In both cases the instruments were on offer for months, in one case nearly a year, and had been in display at a festival too. In both cases the sale happened out of the blue when the buyer phoned me and was happy to pay the asking price.

The point I'm making is that because the number of potential buyers is tiny you may have a long wait for the right buyer to come along. So I'm in agreement with Greg that you have to be patient if you want to realise the top price. It's only been advertised for a month. If you need a quick sale you may have to accept less, but that's life.

I agree with Greg and Theo, who are both professional restorer/dealers. Some people say that something has a set "value" as if it were an objective trait like weight or dimensions, when it really represents an agreement reached between a buyer and a seller. Sale prices of many things, including concertinas, tend to be lower now than they were a few years ago when the world economy was different. As you've observed, if someone tells you that your concertina is "worth" more than $8000 it doesn't mean much if you can't get an offer at that level. You may get a higher offer than your currently highest $6300 if you wait and periodically post here (or go to eBay) but there's no guarantee of that - and it's also possibly that your $6300 bidder will withdraw their bid at some point. If it's important to you to complete the sale, don't assume that a higher bid will be out there for you - it might be, but it might not.

#53 Azalin

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 11:34 AM

Meanwhile, the state of the economy is actually degrading... the S&P went down 10% last month, and there are fears of a "double dip" recession, where the US might come back to a few quarters of recession. Europe's debt level is dangerously high (as is many US states) and China is showing signs of a cooldown. So, when you see your savings melt with the stock market, buying an expensive concertina might not be a priority.

#54 Dirge

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Posted 03 July 2010 - 12:02 PM

So, when you see your savings melt with the stock market, buying an expensive concertina might not be a priority.

Alternatively, when your invested money earns damn all and not even major banks seem safe, a really quality concertina looks a reasonable long term investment and at least in the short term you can play it.

The classic 'bike market is healthy for exactly this reason, I'm told. If you get no interest on your money anyway, you can at least have some fun with it. (I can supply a highly desirable Matchless P11 to anyone wanting to invest in this particular field...)




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