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For sale: Dipper County Clare C/G


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#1 megmcd2

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Posted 12 June 2010 - 01:12 PM

For sale: 31-key C/G Colin Dipper County Clare silver-ended Anglo concertina, serial number 273. Seven-fold original leather bellows. This instrument has a sweet, clear tone and is in excellent condition except for minor tarnish on the silver ends; itís been played only lightly since I bought it new. The original Dipper case will come with the concertina, of course.

Iím sorry to say that I wasnít able to learn to play this beautiful instrument decently despite lessons and the encouragement I received from many folks on this site several years ago. Itís time to let someone else enjoy it.

Iíve had a local (Seattle) offer of U.S. $6,000. Iím offering the instrument on this site to see if I can get more than that for it. The purchaser will pay for shipping.

Iíll make a donation to Concertina.net if the instrument is sold here.

Please respond by private message. Thanks for your interest!

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#2 David Levine

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 07:45 AM

Hi -- I just saw this listed. I'm happy to buy it. I can offer more than $6,000.
I just don't want to get into an open-ended bidding war. I hope you understand.
Could you tell me how much you'd want for it? Shipping to Arizona would suit me fine.
Thanks,
David

davylevine@gmail.com

#3 megmcd2

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 01:21 PM

Hmm. Can we have bidding without a war?

I hope everyone can understand that I'd like to get as much as possible for my concertina. Of course I understand that no one (well, no one I know) actually likes to spend large amounts of money.

So far I've had a firm offer of $6300.

If I were to sell my Dipper on ebay, I'd set a "buy it now" price of $10,000. I'll do the same here without the fancy ebay software.

Please respond by private message, and thanks for your interest!

#4 ben

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 03:00 PM

$10,000.00! WOW! Is the Dipper County Clare anglo a more professional model than the ordinary Dipper anglo? It must be a good concertina..for the amount of money asked.

#5 megmcd2

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 03:29 PM

The County Clare concertina is clear and loud (designed for sessions), but small and light, with fast action and a sweet tone. I'll leave any comparison between different types of concertinas to someone who knows them better. My Dipper is in nearly new condition aside from the slight tarnish (which I assume can be easily polished away by someone who wants to do so) and some wear of the velvet case lining.

For those who aren't familiar with ebay, a "buy it now" price sets the high end of the bidding. In other words, I'll welcome bids that are less than $10,000 (we're not close to that figure at this point, and I don't know if I'll get that much). But if someone wants to make sure he or she gets the instrument and won't be outbid, that's what a "buy it now" price does.

#6 Azalin

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Posted 13 June 2010 - 05:44 PM

Interesting, with the current exchange rates, this instrument is much more expensive for an european than it used to be. I'm guessing that if a $10 000 offer is made, it will probably come from the US (or Canada), but who knows? I think a Dipper went for $9000 on this site last year?

#7 David Levine

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 02:28 AM

Good luck. I'm no longer interested.

#8 hjcjones

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 03:46 AM

Hmm. Can we have bidding without a war?


I'm not in the market for this instrument, so perhaps it's none of my business, but an alternative to an online auction would by informal tender, where you would ask prospective buyers to submit their best offers by a given deadline, with no obligation on you to sell if it didn't reach the minimum (undisclosed) price you'd decided you would be prepared to accept.

#9 Larryo

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 05:02 AM

I don't know this seller from Adam but if he/she has a firm bid of $6,300 and maybe can get more, going on my single experience of selling a concertina a few months ago, I wish them all the best.Some three years ago I paid over the odds for a Suttner which was the norm at the time and in March I decided to sell it for health reasons which were stopping me playing.As it happens I wasn't looking for next or near to $10,000 and the grief :o !! Some people were genuine, agreed it was worth the money and would pay it if they had it whilst some others decided that I was ripping them and their relatives off with one member here saying indignantly that I should sell it to him for less than I paid for it.I must say that when arguments and debates broke out before about the morals etc of charging high prices for concertinas, I was on the fence but falling off in the direction of thinking it wrong to charge exhorbitantly. I still sort of think a bit like that but only a bit because as I learnt, everyone has their own opinion as to what is exhorbitant and in the end I got a pain in my head and put it away in the wardrobe :lol: So just another side to it

#10 hjcjones

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 07:32 AM

As someone who is a valuer by profession (real estate rather than concertinas) I am wary when people start talking about morality in markets. Individuals may apply their own moral values when deciding to participate in a market, but a free market itself is morally neutral - value is determined by what people are able and willing to pay, and what the vendor is willing to accept. You may think a price is "exorbitant", but that's comes down to a personal opinion of the item's worth to you - if enough people in the market are prepared to pay more, then that price is a fair price.

Individual deals should also be treated with caution, especially for items such as Dippers which only occasionally come onto the market. Someone may be willing to pay more than the market would normally bear in order to secure a sought-after item. In the case under discussion, the seller has suggested he might put it on ebay with a "buy-it-now" price of $10k - if someone were to pay that it doesn't mean the market value is $10k or even close to it, simply that one individual was prepared to pay that figure to avoid the risk of losing out at auction. I suspect that the seller doesn't actually expect to receive such an offer - but if he does, why shouldn't he accept it?

If he'd set the "buy-it-now" price closer to the bidding level this could disadvantage someone who was also willing to pay that price, or even a bit more, but who wasn't quite quick enough.

If someone wants to sell an item, whether it's a concertina or anything else, they have to price it realistically, otherwise no one will buy. However the same applies if you want to buy something - you should expect to pay the market value. As long as both parties are free to enter into the transaction (eg it's not a forced sale) then no one can say they've been ripped off - if they don't like the price they don't have to pay it. I don't suppose they would complain if they thought they were getting a bargain.

I don't really get the argument that because it's difficult for new players to afford good-quality concertinas it's somehow wrong to charge a realistic price. Firstly, there are far more affordable options than there used to be, secondly why should new players be favoured over more experienced players who may also want a quality instrument? Of course, if someone wishes to effectively make a gift to another player by charging a lower price that's an act of personal generosity, but it has nothing to do with market value.

Like it or not, good concertinas attract high prices because of their scarcity. It's simple supply and demand economics. Dippers are pretty special, there aren't that many of them, and they don't often come onto the market, so they're scarcer than most.

I think this seller has behaved very reasonably - he's invited offers and given an indication of the figure they'll have to beat. He's also named a premium price in case someone wants to avoid the risk of losing out in the bidding, and although I doubt that he seriously expects to achieve this, if someone wants it that badly then good luck.

#11 Azalin

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 08:31 AM

Well, as much as we can say $10 000 is a lot, I would say $6300 is definitely underpriced. A few years ago I paid almost as much for a 'vintage' concertina with punctured bellows (although I wasn't aware of the state of the bellows). But yeah, we all have our own version of what's fair or not.

#12 drbones

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 08:44 AM

I agree 10,000 percent. Good old fashioned capitalistic, free interprise. If you want it, pay it, if not, someone else will.
This thing looks so nice, I feel like I should pay just for looking!Posted Image Oh good, that feeling just went away.Posted Image

#13 ben

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 08:57 AM

My tuppence worth.....I think that $8,000.00 is a "reasonable price" for a used Dipper County Clare in today's market. Any purchaser who wants one without waiting for four +/- years (for a new one) should be willing to pay what ever an owner wants (supply and demand).

#14 ceemonster

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 02:56 PM

My tuppence worth.....I think that $8,000.00 is a "reasonable price" for a used Dipper County Clare in today's market. Any purchaser who wants one without waiting for four +/- years (for a new one) should be willing to pay what ever an owner wants (supply and demand).

well....i enjoy these discussions about absolute value versus market value, though on other sites the expression of opinions about this stuff seems to throw some stuffier types into a rage. but....talking strictly in a betting, nick-the-greek sense and strictly about market value---a used, two-row button accordion, albeit a fine instrument by a top maker with a long wait list, but, a button accordion of about par quality-wise with other high-end boxes with handmade reeds selling for half or less than half this price---went on an auction site a couple of months ago for something like 6700 euros, just shy of nine thousand american dollars. extrapolating from that, and again, i'm just playing nick the greek about market sale-price value here....if this instrument's condition is accurately represented and it is only a couple of years old, its market value to somebody out there with dosh is, i'm betting, well over eight grand, perhaps over ten. the euro is down, but it's still higher than the dollar, and someone with euro will pay gobs of dollars for it. for some reason, irish awareness of dippers lagged for a while. that has changed, and irish pros are as mad for dippers now as for suttners. the thing is sellable for a great deal of money.

i'm not saying that's a good thing, but there's nothing evil about it, either. this isn't accordions, which you can very credibly argue don't differ in quality that much above a certain bar---the fact with boxes is that it almost doesn't matter who made it if you've got good, well-made action mechanism and you then plunk handmade reeds into it, voila, a great box--plus, there are so many makers of really fine-quality boxes which are easily available.

not so with concertinas. colin dipper is a great maker, but even his stuff would be in less demand if there were a dozen or so wonderful concertina makers out there like there are with accordions. there aren't. there is a huge accessibility problem....so.......

i think what set people off here was a misunderstanding created, i'm sure unintentionally, in the OP, which seemed to give a mis-impression about what was going on, which is a straight, highest-bidder-gets-it, auction-ish situation. there is nothing wrong with that, it just wasn't clear at the start...

Edited by ceemonster, 14 June 2010 - 03:00 PM.


#15 megmcd2

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 07:01 PM

I apologize if any lack of clarity in my original post misled anyone.

One thing I'd like to point out is that I mentioned that I've had the concertina for several years. It's not new, as its low serial number indicates. I purchased it new in 1996 from Lark in the Morning. The reason why it's still in nearly new condition is that it's been kept snug in its case (away from beer-splattering sessions :rolleyes:) in a smoke-free, decently humidity-controlled environment, and I've played it only occasionally. Actually, it's in better than new condition--it came with a buzzing low reed, which I had fixed by a local accordion repair shop.

At this point, I've still had just the one solid offer of $6300 come in from this site.

Technically, I had a higher offer ($7000) come in on the first day; but that person set a 24-hour deadline for acceptance of his offer, and I told him that wasn't fair to people who hadn't yet had a chance to see that the concertina is available. This was one reason why I set a high "buy it now" price--to let people have a chance to bid, and also provide a route to a certain win if someone wants that option.

So that's where things stand right now. I'm not in a hurry to sell the concertina; I would like to receive as much as I can for it; and I'd prefer to sell it here rather than on ebay if possible.

Please respond by private message if you'd like to offer to buy my Dipper concertina. Thanks!

#16 Azalin

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 08:25 PM

Ah, mine is #447, so Colin and Rosalie has made an average of 12 anglos (or County Clare) concertinas a year... do you think they use the same serial for normal anglos and County Clare models, or this serial is specifically for County Clare models?

Personally I don't like the idea of someone getting an instrument from a maker and then selling it a few months afterward for a hefty profit... but after 14 years??? You well deserve the profit, when you take inflation, etc into account, it's not that much profit. If you had invested that money in Microsoft instead, you'd be pretty rich ;-)

EDIT: Now that I think of it, 12 concertinas a year seems like a lot! Maybe it's a serial for ALL instruments they're making?

Edited by Azalin, 14 June 2010 - 08:28 PM.


#17 Bruce McCaskey

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Posted 14 June 2010 - 11:10 PM

On the topic of production rates, I spoke with Colin a few years ago and he commented that he'd just received several new concertina orders and said that he could only make "20 or so" a year. My guess is that he applies the numbering system sequentially to all he makes, rather than numbering the individual models. I believe that's consistent with the approach used by other makers.

As to the concertina Meg is selling, I've met Meg and last fall I saw the concertina she's offering and played it for twenty minutes or so. Its condition is as she represents and it only needs someone to play it to keep it in top shape. I owned a nearly identical County Clare for about three years and quite liked it. Good tone, strong volume and small size, they are great instruments.

#18 Azalin

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Posted 15 June 2010 - 08:56 AM

On the topic of production rates, I spoke with Colin a few years ago and he commented that he'd just received several new concertina orders and said that he could only make "20 or so" a year. My guess is that he applies the numbering system sequentially to all he makes, rather than numbering the individual models. I believe that's consistent with the approach used by other makers.


Thanks Bruce, very interesting. I wonder if the anglos Colin (and Rosalie) make have changed throughout the years. Are the reeds a bit different, or other properties of the instruments? I would love to compare my County Clare with an older model.




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