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#19 Greg Jowaisas

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 07:59 AM

Or were the ends taken off and put back with the wrong orientation?!

Greg

#20 Concerteeny

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 02:49 PM

Yes, some notes play all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons. So you mean, when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons, you should not hear any notes?

Just one other thought occurs to me. Are some notes playing all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons? If so then the concertina needs repair.



#21 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 04:10 PM

No, you shouldn't hear any -- there's something wrong. There's probably at least one "pad" on the inside of the concertina that's not sealing properly. This may or may not be worth an attempt at repair. If this is a Chinese-made 20-button, it's probably not worth it.

Yes, some notes play all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons. So you mean, when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons, you should not hear any notes?

Just one other thought occurs to me. Are some notes playing all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons? If so then the concertina needs repair.



#22 Concerteeny

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 07:10 PM

Okay, that explains it. Thank you so much for taking so much time to help a novice get to the bottom of this. It is undoubtedly a Chinese instrument and seems to be quite cheap. So now I move on to the next consideration: has this experience sparked my interest enough to push me into buying a real, working instrument to learn on? Any suggestions on where to look/buy online?

No, you shouldn't hear any -- there's something wrong. There's probably at least one "pad" on the inside of the concertina that's not sealing properly. This may or may not be worth an attempt at repair. If this is a Chinese-made 20-button, it's probably not worth it.

Yes, some notes play all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons. So you mean, when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons, you should not hear any notes?

Just one other thought occurs to me. Are some notes playing all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons? If so then the concertina needs repair.



#23 Dirge

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 07:25 PM

Why not have a tinker with the thing you've got and see if you can kick it into rough playing shape? Or give it to that 'mechanically minded' friend to do it for you. The basic mechanics of a concertina are fairly straightforward, and there's not much to lose by the sound of things.

#24 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 10:26 PM

What Dirge suggests is certainly a possibility. But if you do want to buy one, many of us here recommend the Rochelle/Jackie/Elise line from Concertina Connection as starter instruments if their price (about $350) is within your means. If that's too expensive, there are cheaper alternatives, but they are more of a gamble.

Why not have a tinker with the thing you've got and see if you can kick it into rough playing shape? Or give it to that 'mechanically minded' friend to do it for you. The basic mechanics of a concertina are fairly straightforward, and there's not much to lose by the sound of things.



#25 Concerteeny

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 10:32 PM

I might give this one a little more effort, although, I honestly can't wait to see what a properly working concertina feels and sounds like. This one has frustrated me. $350 is within my means. There's a consignment music store in town that might have one to test drive. Thanks again for all suggestions.

What Dirge suggests is certainly a possibility. But if you do want to buy one, many of us here recommend the Rochelle/Jackie/Elise line from Concertina Connection as starter instruments if their price (about $350) is within your means. If that's too expensive, there are cheaper alternatives, but they are more of a gamble.

Why not have a tinker with the thing you've got and see if you can kick it into rough playing shape? Or give it to that 'mechanically minded' friend to do it for you. The basic mechanics of a concertina are fairly straightforward, and there's not much to lose by the sound of things.



#26 nkgibbs

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Posted 14 February 2010 - 05:31 PM

Okay, that explains it. Thank you so much for taking so much time to help a novice get to the bottom of this. It is undoubtedly a Chinese instrument and seems to be quite cheap. So now I move on to the next consideration: has this experience sparked my interest enough to push me into buying a real, working instrument to learn on? Any suggestions on where to look/buy online?

No, you shouldn't hear any -- there's something wrong. There's probably at least one "pad" on the inside of the concertina that's not sealing properly. This may or may not be worth an attempt at repair. If this is a Chinese-made 20-button, it's probably not worth it.

Yes, some notes play all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons. So you mean, when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons, you should not hear any notes?

Just one other thought occurs to me. Are some notes playing all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons? If so then the concertina needs repair.


Dear Concerteeny,

I have a starting pack for sale (110) on my website www.concertina.biz that may be ideal for you. This is based around a 20 button Hohner concertina in the keys of C/G that has only been very lightly used and has a reasonably nice tone. It is supplied with a well-padded, green velvet lined, gig bag and a well respected tutor by Frank Converse written specifically for the 20b Anglo (Total RRP over 200).

Best Regards,
Neil

www.concertina.biz

#27 Steve Gardham

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 03:12 PM

Concerteeny,
If you tell us where you are there is just an offchance that we know a player not too far away who would take a look at your instrument and say whether it is repairable or not. If it's just a couple of pads, even on a cheap model, it's a doddle to repair.

#28 Concerteeny

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Posted 20 February 2010 - 03:35 PM

I'm in Memphis, Tennessee.

Concerteeny,
If you tell us where you are there is just an offchance that we know a player not too far away who would take a look at your instrument and say whether it is repairable or not. If it's just a couple of pads, even on a cheap model, it's a doddle to repair.



#29 Steve Gardham

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 10:07 AM

Okay,
Memphis is certainly far enough from me in Yorkshire to be a non-starter.

I wonder if there is anywhere a register of players/repairers/collectors who would be willing to give up an odd hour occasionally to help enthusiastic beginners. I would certainly be willing to take part.

Teeny, I would have a good look on eBay at what's available and current prices and then come back to the forum with questions about what you have seen before making a purchase. That's if you don't feel able to take up Neil's reasonable offer.

#30 Kautilya

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 04:33 PM

Just one other thought occurs to me. Are some notes playing all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons? If so then the concertina needs repair.

Try checking the buttons using the Graham Patent 20 Anglo Chart for Beginners (u can sellotape it the right and left sides of the box!)
I hope I have the right notes....LoL
Above the line are the C row of buttons notes furthest from your fingers and below the line are the G row buttons nearer to your fingers.
Blow is the same as push and suck is same as pull out - B and S to avoid confusion for me over P ush and P ull....

Copy, paste into Word, bold as required and make as big as u can (it has to fit on the wood/bellows binding on right and left) cut to shape, sellotape down and start cooking.

Right side
bC D F A B blow
s B E G C E suck
-------------------------------
bF# A C E F# blow
s G B D G B suck




Left side

b C G C E G blow
s G B D F A suck
---------------------------
b G D G B D blow
s D F# A C E suck


if you don't get notes something like these coming out then send it to Theo! Or you follow Dirge and open up (unscrew keeping screws laid out in order so they go back in the same holes and then
http://www.concertin...showtopic=10770
put a pencil mark on where u took it out (on the pan and the side) so u can match up tp stick it back the same way it came out.
When open poke (visually!) around inside and see what's stuck, leaking, bent, eaten by moths, or the little man inside may be on strike and need feeding etc etc

Edited by Kautilya, 22 February 2010 - 05:10 PM.


#31 Concerteeny

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 09:21 PM

Thanks. I got caught up in the Folk Alliance Conference last week and now I've gone and got a cold. But I did see Neil's offer, and also Daniel's reference to instruments on Concertina Connection. I also just learned that Consignment Music in town just got in a 20 button for around $170. I'm trying to take it all in. One remaining question (I also posted it in a new forum question): how does one decide whether to get an Anglo or English concertina? Daniel suggested one of each offered on Concertina Connection for about the same amount of money. By the way, do you guys all know each other?

Okay,
Memphis is certainly far enough from me in Yorkshire to be a non-starter.

I wonder if there is anywhere a register of players/repairers/collectors who would be willing to give up an odd hour occasionally to help enthusiastic beginners. I would certainly be willing to take part.

Teeny, I would have a good look on eBay at what's available and current prices and then come back to the forum with questions about what you have seen before making a purchase. That's if you don't feel able to take up Neil's reasonable offer.



#32 Concerteeny

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Posted 22 February 2010 - 09:29 PM

Thanks. I'm nursing a cold and may not get to trying out the chart until the end of the working week. As far as I could tell, though, there was no such order when I first tried to figure out the keyboard. And I believe it was Theo who responded that if it's playing notes when I'm not pressing buttons (as it is), it's broke. Is that not right?

Just one other thought occurs to me. Are some notes playing all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons? If so then the concertina needs repair.

Try checking the buttons using the Graham Patent 20 Anglo Chart for Beginners (u can sellotape it the right and left sides of the box!)
I hope I have the right notes....LoL
Above the line are the C row of buttons notes furthest from your fingers and below the line are the G row buttons nearer to your fingers.
Blow is the same as push and suck is same as pull out - B and S to avoid confusion for me over P ush and P ull....

Copy, paste into Word, bold as required and make as big as u can (it has to fit on the wood/bellows binding on right and left) cut to shape, sellotape down and start cooking.

Right side
bC D F A B blow
s B E G C E suck
-------------------------------
bF# A C E F# blow
s G B D G B suck




Left side

b C G C E G blow
s G B D F A suck
---------------------------
b G D G B D blow
s D F# A C E suck


if you don't get notes something like these coming out then send it to Theo! Or you follow Dirge and open up (unscrew keeping screws laid out in order so they go back in the same holes and then
http://www.concertin...showtopic=10770
put a pencil mark on where u took it out (on the pan and the side) so u can match up tp stick it back the same way it came out.
When open poke (visually!) around inside and see what's stuck, leaking, bent, eaten by moths, or the little man inside may be on strike and need feeding etc etc



#33 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 02:39 AM

One remaining question (I also posted it in a new forum question): how does one decide whether to get an Anglo or English concertina? Daniel suggested one of each offered on Concertina Connection for about the same amount of money. By the way, do you guys all know each other?


Re Anglo vs. English, I'll ask again: what kind of music do you want to play? And m3838 and Steve provided some good info in response to your other post.

We don't all know each other. I think that a lot of us have met the other members who live near where we do and others while traveling or at workshops or festivals. Some of us have gotten to know each other via e-mail and pm though we haven't met in person.

#34 Steve_freereeder

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 03:31 AM

Thanks. I'm nursing a cold and may not get to trying out the chart until the end of the working week. As far as I could tell, though, there was no such order when I first tried to figure out the keyboard. And I believe it was Theo who responded that if it's playing notes when I'm not pressing buttons (as it is), it's broke. Is that not right?

Yes - it was Theo, several replies back. You've even quoted his reply yourself.

Just one other thought occurs to me. Are some notes playing all the time, even when you push and pull the bellows without pressing any buttons? If so then the concertina needs repair.



Look - the concertina you have is not working as it should, it is in need of repair, but if it is a really cheap and nasty one, it is probably not worth it and even if it could be got playing again it is probably going to be hard work to play and sound none too good, which isn't going to motivate you to practice. If you've got the budget to run to a new beginner's concertina then that is the way to go. The best one to go for is undoubtedly the Rochelle (for anglo system) or the Jackie (for English system). They are designed by Wim and Karen Wakker of the Concertina Connection and although made in China under licence, the quality control is good and they are good instruments, unlike so many other cheap imports. They are good value for money and will hold a fair price against a trade up to a better quality instrument at some point in the future

Your question about whether to go for the anglo or English system has been addressed in your other post.

http://www.concertin...ndpost&p=109027

As to whether we all know each other - well no we don't. Some of us are separated by 1000s of miles. But some of us do indeed know other members and have met in person on several occasions, some are even good friends. As the UK is a collection of small islands with a great tradition of concertina playing, it is inevitable that our nearest concertina-playing neighbours generally live fairly close by. I personally know at least 20 other concertina players who live within an hour's drive of my home; some of them are within walking distance. And there are probably a good few others whom I don't know about.

I guess in Memphis, the population density of concertina players is much lower, but I would be very surprised if there were none at all. They probably don't know about this forum, that's all. A google search of 'concertina players Memphis' gets a number of hits......

#35 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 04:12 AM

I guess in Memphis, the population density of concertina players is much lower, but I would be very surprised if there were none at all. They probably don't know about this forum, that's all. A google search of 'concertina players Memphis' gets a number of hits......


I tried that and only spotted one, a country singer/songwriter named Nancy Apple who says she "plays drums, guitar, harmonica and dabbles on the accordion and concertina". But I couldn't tell if she plays Chemnitzer concertina or one of the kinds that we're discussing here.

If you could find an Irish music session in Memphis you might find a concertina player there -- a high proportion of US players play in that style.

#36 Concerteeny

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Posted 23 February 2010 - 01:35 PM

I vaguely know Nancy Apple, and just remembered I saw her pick up a concertina once. What's a Chemnitzer? I've also learned of another friend's friend who plays. Since the broken concertina I had belongs to a friend, I will pass on all your suggestions to him, but I'm ready to take the leap of faith and get my own. Now it's just deciding which one.

I guess in Memphis, the population density of concertina players is much lower, but I would be very surprised if there were none at all. They probably don't know about this forum, that's all. A google search of 'concertina players Memphis' gets a number of hits......


I tried that and only spotted one, a country singer/songwriter named Nancy Apple who says she "plays drums, guitar, harmonica and dabbles on the accordion and concertina". But I couldn't tell if she plays Chemnitzer concertina or one of the kinds that we're discussing here.

If you could find an Irish music session in Memphis you might find a concertina player there -- a high proportion of US players play in that style.






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