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Height of Hand / Palm Rest


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#19 KelTekgolow

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 12:24 PM

Hi All .Palm Rest.On my AC Norman 32 Button Anglo C/G the palm rest height was 5/8" .I have increased the height by a 1/4" to 7/8".A more comfortable playing position was found by sticking pieces of wood to the handle until I found the best height.Of course the button height varies on different concertinas .I find its the angle and reach of your hand in relation to the buttons that is important.ATb Bob

#20 hjcjones

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 03:54 PM

1972 Crabb 40-key: 2cm
2007 Dipper 31-key: 2cm
Early C20 Lachenal 30-key baritone: 1.7 cm

#21 hjcjones

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 04:03 PM

My problem with Guran's idea is that I've never felt that the things he lists as defects with the current design are actually problems.

As a maker, I have concluded that much of what he has to say about concertina design is impractical, and unneccessary


I think he may be right about stability, and possible his solution deals with this without restricting hand movement, but it seems to me to be cumbersome, and overkill for what is not really a problem for most people. As he has admitted himself, it really requires a complete redesign of the concertina, which no one seems in a hurry to do.

I deal with stability issues by sitting down and supporting the instrument on my knee. That works for me.

#22 eskin

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Posted 04 February 2010 - 07:09 PM

When I first bought my Carroll #13, the previous owner had huge hands (mine are quite small), but it didn't dawn on me that he also had taller than usual handrests made for the instrument. It resulted in an odd rotation motion around my thumb on presses, took Noel Hill and I about 3 days at Tillikum to figure out what was going on, as soon as we put my instrument next to another Carroll, the difference was immediately obvious. Sent the handrests back to Wally for a cutdown and refinish and ended with a much more comfortable instrument. I'll have to post the measurements later tonight.

I think this is something that may be overlooked as a variable when adapting the instrument to the player, it just never occurred to me that handrests might be different heights, I would imagine others would be of the same mindset.

#23 Ross

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Posted 06 February 2010 - 08:43 PM

My Rochelle and Elise both have 20mm palm bars. The buttons on the Rochelle are a little taller. On both concertinas, I find no difference in tone or volume between the buttons pressed half way in or all the way in. Is the last half of the button travel wasted motion?

#24 michael sam wild

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 08:17 AM

I investgated the button travel business following discussion and opinion on another thread and came to the conclusion that the control is better with the 'redundant' length .The bit of wobble seems to allow me better control.

#25 Frank Edgley

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 11:30 AM

I think one area that is correct is the statement that handles on vintage instruments are usually far too low. I had two Jeffries whose handles were around 1/2 inch. This is far too low, especially when a person is just learning and has the tendency to tighten the straps too much. This forces him/her to have to curl the fingers quite a bit to reach the inner rows. IMHO straps should be loose enough to allow movement. Tight straps and low handles do not allow this. Likewise, I am not in favour of contoured handles, for the same reason.

#26 Lawrence Reeves

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Posted 07 February 2010 - 03:46 PM

My Shakespeare 38 key has a palm rest height of 1.7 cm. My Suttner is 2.2 cm. With the added height, plus the very responsive reeds I am able to execute slap rolls ( phantom button rolls) more easily and crisply. I am with Eskin, in the idea that the size of hand has a lot to do with perceived comfort, and I play with very loose straps in a relaxed fashion.

#27 michael sam wild

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 07:49 AM

Maybe this should go on a separate thread but I've been thinking about my straps . On my Jones 30b. C/G I am playing across the rows in a harmonic style and finding the strap , which lies across my knuckles is a bit inhibiting when it comes to hooking the fingers into the G row.

Has anyone experimented with angled straps (ie cut away)or moving the rail back ( a bit more drastic and maybe it would warp the inner boards with torsion|)

I know such straps would take more leather but I've not come across any commercial 'cutaway' straps that would suit me , they still cover the knuckles and I want them on the back of the hand.

Edited by michael sam wild, 09 February 2010 - 07:49 AM.


#28 hjcjones

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Posted 08 February 2010 - 03:39 PM

Maybe this should go on a separate thread but I've been thinking about my straps . On my Jones 30b.C/G I am playing across the rows in a harmonic style and finding the strap , which lies across my knuckles is a bit inhibiting when it coems to hooking the fingers into the G row.

Has anyone experimented with angles straps or moving the rail back ( a bit more drastic and maybe it would warp the inner boards with torsion|)

I know the straps would take more leather but I,ve not come across any commercial 'cutaway' straps that would suit me , they still cover the knuckles and I want them on the back of the hand.


Do you have very large hands? I'm wondering why the straps should come over the knuckles sufficiently to cause a problem. John Kirkpatrick has hands like shovels, but his straps are across the back of the hand, just behind the knuckles. They don't seem to cause him any problems!

Posted Image

I play a similar instrument (a 40-key Crabb, although with slightly different design of strap), and mine are in a similar position although I think I have smaller hands than John - I certainly can't support the instrument with the little finger the way he does.

My other instruments are also similar.

Have you tried loosening the straps to allow a bit of hand movement? This can make it easier to reach all the buttons, although you may find that you sometimes need to tension them with your thumb.

#29 michael sam wild

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 07:52 AM

Thanks Howard A picture paints a thousand words!

It looks like JK has a longer strap so I'll experiment
Mike

My son says I've got Mayo man's hands like my Dad

Edited by michael sam wild, 09 February 2010 - 07:58 AM.


#30 Ross

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Posted 09 February 2010 - 12:07 PM

The bar on my old Lachenal is 1.9 cm with a rounded top.

#31 KelTekgolow

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Posted 12 July 2017 - 04:30 AM

The flexibility of my middle and ring finger on my right hand is reduced ,so unable to bend them enough to reach the G row on my Anglo .The present hand rests are 21mm high I am thinking of making some 38mm high.The step down where the hand strap is held on the hand rest by a wire clip is at present only 8mm high and I propose to make the new rest the same dimension at this point so that I can reach the air button .I think I might have to move the clip position higher so the the hand strap is long enough ..I don't know if I should make for two sides the same or one ? Bob


Edited by KelTekgolow, 12 July 2017 - 05:42 AM.


#32 d.elliott

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Posted 19 July 2017 - 02:42 PM

In have modified hand rest heights, lengths and location towards, or away from the keys. As I think Dana said, different sized hands, different geometry.

 

The other mod I have carried out is to make the air key lever actuated, people seem to find this easier on the stiff and aching thumb joints. Also faster to actuate.

 

Dave 



#33 Jake Middleton-Metcalfe

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 09:29 AM

 

 

The other mod I have carried out is to make the air key lever actuated, people seem to find this easier on the stiff and aching thumb joints. Also faster to actuate.

 

Dave 

 

I am very in favour of this I have to say.



#34 Anglo-Irishman

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 03:37 PM

I've never had much trouble with the height of palm rests, but IMO the air lever is one great advantage of the Bandoneon over the Anglo! So much faster, so much quieter, and still capable of fine dosage. Why is the Bandoneon air-valve arrangement never used on Anglos?

 

Cheers,

John



#35 David Hornett

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 07:23 PM

I arch the Tiger rests to fit the curve of my palm. The top of arch is 2cm. I have tried 3 cm and find it more comfortable, especially for reaching the inner row, but i have big hands and am conscious of someone else not finding it so nice, so stay with 2cm.

 

Having said that, interestingly, when I pick up another concertina with a straight rest, I am not at all conscious of the rest difference, the reason seems to be that when playing I tend to arch the back of my hand to rest on the edge of the concertina, so that the rest's shape or height make little difference, never-the-less, i like the look of my domed rests.

 

David






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