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Edeophone ends and a few questions.


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#37 stormforce10

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 01:12 PM

Well, I have had a few problems with the ends.

I made two jigs to drill the button holes, ( both ends have a different layout ), the right hand end went ok, drilled the holes and everything fitted ok.
The left hand end jig, wasn't quite right, was pretty close so I drilled the holes. When I offered the end plate to the action plate, the button holes were ok but, the sides were 2mm short, on four of the twelve sides.

I should have paid more attention to what Chis Ghent said about the ends being different.
The left hand end is 2mm larger than the right end and I had made the plug from the right end. Only 2mm smaller but that did make a difference.

I had to have the gel coat ground off the four sides, build them up with more fiber, then flo coated with more gel coat.
That was that problem sorted. ( thanks Mike, my friendly laminater )

The next problem was when I drilled the body bolt holes, because I had put a slight angle on the sides of the ends, to allow for a release angle on the moulds, the holes came out too close to the edge.

So here we go again, ground off six sides on each end, built up the sides and flo coated them with more gel coat.
( thanks Mike, my friendly laminater )

The ends fit ok and are now ready for the fret work pattern.

I have been looking into cnc laser cutting and waterjet cutting, all do-able but too expensive, so I think I will have to do it by hand.

What pattern, I think Theo has a point about small openings muting the sound, is this why they say metal ended concertinas are louder as they can have larger openings.
Whatever pattern I choose will not be easy, I think they will all be time consuming, so at the moment I hope to find a good picture of both left and right ends, print them to the right size, then stick double sided tape on the ends and stick the pictures down, then coat them with epoxy glue. Epoxy glue is transparent, and I'm hoping the epoxy glue will stop the picture tearing, when I drill and cut the pattern.

Any help in finding good end pictures would be appreciated and any other ways of cutting the patterns.

cheers Roger

#38 Chris Ghent

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Posted 03 March 2010 - 06:42 PM

A tip Geoff Crabb gave me; when you print the pattern make it grey rather than black, it makes it easier to see the blade as separate from the line.

Chris

#39 Dana Johnson

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Posted 04 March 2010 - 07:29 AM

Given the end material you have, I'd just glue down the pictures with spray mount adhesive sprayed on the paper The ends will keep the paper from tearing just fine. (perhaps not the double stick tape way ) Tape can foul your saw blade and make cutting a huge pain. I used to do my metal ends this way, and did the rosewood ends of my daughters concertina this way. I remove the paper with one of those orange oil cleaners ( not the diluted kind with water in them) or alcohol. Keep it simple. Your carbon fiber ends should be relatively impervious. How does the stuff cut with a saw blade? I remember trying to cut through a bar of the stuff I used to reinforce a banjo neck ( which it worked great for ) but it was astoundingly hard stuff. (Very unlike cutting graphite) It was a 1/4" X 5/8" bar though not a thin sheet. Practically unbendable.
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#40 stormforce10

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 09:20 AM

Thanks for that, Chris, works a lot better with the pictures greyed.

Dana thanks for the idea, but I had already stuck down the picture before I had read your post.
I have cut out some of the fret work and it seems to be going ok, the carbon fiber cuts ok and the picture does not rip, but I think it will take a while to do the lot. Then I will have to spend some time with finger files to clean it up.

Roger

#41 Greg Jowaisas

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Posted 05 March 2010 - 10:55 AM

Thanks for that, Chris, works a lot better with the pictures greyed.

Dana thanks for the idea, but I had already stuck down the picture before I had read your post.
I have cut out some of the fret work and it seems to be going ok, the carbon fiber cuts ok and the picture does not rip, but I think it will take a while to do the lot. Then I will have to spend some time with finger files to clean it up.

Roger


Rubbing beeswax or candle wax on the saw blade is a big help. With wood matching the correct thickness blade for the delicacy of the work makes for smooth cuts and lessens the need for filing and clean up.

In the end there is no getting around the time and concentration it takes to do a good job.

Happy sawing!

Greg

#42 Dana Johnson

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Posted 06 March 2010 - 08:43 AM

Thanks for that, Chris, works a lot better with the pictures greyed.

Dana thanks for the idea, but I had already stuck down the picture before I had read your post.
I have cut out some of the fret work and it seems to be going ok, the carbon fiber cuts ok and the picture does not rip, but I think it will take a while to do the lot. Then I will have to spend some time with finger files to clean it up.

Roger

I think you will end up with a unique and beautiful ( in a non-traditional way ) concertina, well worth the effort you put into it. I'd love to see some pic of it when you are finished.
On another note, and not suggesting it for the carbon fiber, but with respect to Greg's suggestion, I used to pour a layer of bees wax on the back of my metal end plates when I was cutting them out and saw through the metal and wax at the same time. It provided constant lubrication without having to keep applying the wax. once done it was relatively easy to remove with hot water and those soaps that are good for removing crayon marks. I'd remelt the scrap and reuse the wax, The bees wax was sticky enough to adhere to the metal where candle wax would just flake off.
Dana

#43 stormforce10

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Posted 22 March 2010 - 04:08 AM

The ends are done, carbon4.jpg
not exactly like the pattern I copied, because, I greyed the picture, then highlighted the cutouts with biro, then cut out along the lines, which made the cutouts a little bigger. Then the cutouts were sanded and with making a few mistakes, it came out a little different, but considering this was my first attempt ( AND THE LAST ) I am quite pleased with it.

The holes are .5mm larger than the originals, because the felt I have for the bushings is a little thicker than the original. I cut a few test holes and tapered them, then stuck the felt down and ironed them, to find the smallest hole which would allow the buttons to drop through.

I am pleased that I have used carbon fiber for the ends, making these ends has made me realise how weak and vunerable the original ends are. I have taken the shine off the ends to try to make them look older.

I hope to finish and be playing in a week or two, I'll stick up a picture when completed.

Roger

#44 stormforce10

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 10:15 AM

Finished edeo10.jpg

Thank you to all those who helped, ideas, information and support.
Also a big thank you to Dave Leese from Concertina Spares, he has been very good to me.


After putting it together, I had a few problems, some reeds not sounding, some on the push ,some on the pull, pads not sealing, leverarm bushes too tight, it got me down, as I thought I had done everything correctly. So I left it and had a few beers, the next day went ok and with info from this site I managed to sort it all.

I think it looks good, the pictures do not do it justice, I must get a decent camera.

I think it sounds great, but I am only a novice, I will have to wait until I can get an experianced player to evaluate it, but it is spot on, in tune, as checked with an electronic tuner.

Now I will clean up all the mess I have made, and start to put in a few hours of practice with this wonderfull concertina

Roger

#45 Leonard

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 10:33 AM

Finished edeo10.jpg

Thank you to all those who helped, ideas, information and support.
Also a big thank you to Dave Leese from Concertina Spares, he has been very good to me.


After putting it together, I had a few problems, some reeds not sounding, some on the push ,some on the pull, pads not sealing, leverarm bushes too tight, it got me down, as I thought I had done everything correctly. So I left it and had a few beers, the next day went ok and with info from this site I managed to sort it all.

I think it looks good, the pictures do not do it justice, I must get a decent camera.

I think it sounds great, but I am only a novice, I will have to wait until I can get an experianced player to evaluate it, but it is spot on, in tune, as checked with an electronic tuner.

Now I will clean up all the mess I have made, and start to put in a few hours of practice with this wonderfull concertina

Roger


That was an ambitious project, Roger.

Congratulations for bringing it to a good end!

#46 John Wild

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 08:15 PM

Congratulations for bringing it to a good end!


Both ends!! :)

#47 Dirge

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Posted 27 March 2010 - 09:37 PM

That's a truly heroic effort. Brilliant.

#48 Chris Drinkwater

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Posted 28 March 2010 - 12:58 AM

Well, you certainly now have a unique instrument. All the hard work paid off. Well done. Welcome to the Edeophone owners club! And if you want to hear what an Edeophone can sound like, just listen to my recording of Gardener's Delight, recently posted here under Concertina Videos and Music.

Chris

#49 stormforce10

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 04:01 AM

Leonard, John Wild, Dirge and Chris, thanks for those kind words.
Chris that is a really nice peice of music, if I can get anywhere near that standard of playing, I will be happy.

Roger

#50 Chris Drinkwater

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Posted 29 March 2010 - 07:31 AM

Leonard, John Wild, Dirge and Chris, thanks for those kind words.
Chris that is a really nice peice of music, if I can get anywhere near that standard of playing, I will be happy.




Roger


Thank you for your kind comments re: my tune, Roger.

Chris

#51 SeascaShay

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Posted 02 April 2010 - 06:07 PM

RE: Chris Drinkwater's Edeophone #58856. Actually, it appears to date from the early 1920s--probably in 1922. Relative to many other Lacehnal concertinas, a fairly accurate estimate is faciliated by two Lachenal bills of sale--(1) a bill of sale, showing that "Mr. A. E. Perkins" purchased both #58885 (56 Key) and #58887 (48-key Edeophone with bowing valves) on July 10, 1923 and (2) a bill of sale, showing the purchase of #59086 (56-key Edeophone) on April 2, 1923. Thus, it appears that Mr. Perkins's concertinas were made in 1922 and held in inventory for several months.
During the 1923-1930 period, it appears that Lachenal made about 1,000 English concertinas, or about 125 instruments per year on average. A bill of sale dated 19 September 1930 was for Edeophone #60263.


I have an Edeo with a number 88071on both pans and again on the underneath of the (mahogony) action board.. Having looked at the dates shown here I double checked to see if it was 58071. But no, it is indeed 88071 so where does that leave us?

#52 Theo

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 02:01 PM

I have an Edeo with a number 88071on both pans and again on the underneath of the (mahogony) action board.. Having looked at the dates shown here I double checked to see if it was 58071. But no, it is indeed 88071 so where does that leave us?


I have seen one Edeophone which had riveted action, and I'm told this may have been assembled by Wheatstone from parts acquired after the demise of Lachenal. Perhaps Wheatstone use 8xxxx numbers for these Wheatstone assembled Edeophones??

#53 SteveS

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Posted 03 April 2010 - 04:55 PM


I have an Edeo with a number 88071on both pans and again on the underneath of the (mahogony) action board.. Having looked at the dates shown here I double checked to see if it was 58071. But no, it is indeed 88071 so where does that leave us?


I have seen one Edeophone which had riveted action, and I'm told this may have been assembled by Wheatstone from parts acquired after the demise of Lachenal. Perhaps Wheatstone use 8xxxx numbers for these Wheatstone assembled Edeophones??

I've got an Edeo 56 key extended treble s/n 43*** with riveted action.

#54 SeascaShay

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Posted 05 April 2010 - 12:34 PM


I have an Edeo with a number 88071on both pans and again on the underneath of the (mahogony) action board.. Having looked at the dates shown here I double checked to see if it was 58071. But no, it is indeed 88071 so where does that leave us?


I have seen one Edeophone which had riveted action, and I'm told this may have been assembled by Wheatstone from parts acquired after the demise of Lachenal. Perhaps Wheatstone use 8xxxx numbers for these Wheatstone assembled Edeophones??

I've got an Edeo 56 key extended treble s/n 43*** with riveted action.

My Edeo is 5F bellows and Lachenal levers. I checked again as I have doubts about the 88701 No. It could be in fact 38071. What date would that be then?
I too had damaged ends and got new ones made by Jurgen Suttner who did a fine job. The bellows is shot so I am having a new one made by Colin Dipper. That should make it a fine instrument and will give me the incentive to play a bit on the English system as I am an Anglo player of Irish music.




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