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Edeophone ends and a few questions.


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#19 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 12 February 2010 - 03:52 PM

If that's the one, then one end is almost completely gone.

You say that the ends are damaged, but not how badly. Replacing ends in their entirety is, as Theo suggests, pretty much a degree-level project, but if it is just a case of a few gaps in the fretwork, these can be repaired with a modicum of skill with a scrollsaw and a good deal of patience.
Start with a close-grained, dense hardwood, and cut it (or cause it to be cut) into slices a couple of mm thicker than the ends. Now is the time to have lots of fun with a light box and some tracing paper. Being cut by hand, concertina ends are not perfectly symmetrical, but you can usually find areas of good fretwork that you can use as a guide to the piece that needs replacing. You will probably have to adjust your tracing, using hand and eye, to fit the gap. When you are satisfied with the shape you have drawn, use your printer/copier to make a copy on white paper, stick it onto your slice of timber, and cut it out on your scrollsaw. Using PVA glue, stick the new piece into the gap, leaving the edges a little proud of the old surface. If your replacement piece spans the curve of the raised end, you can simply sand it to match the curve when the glue has dried. Unless you are endowed with superhuman woodworking skills, you will almost certainly find that there are niggling little gaps in places between old and new timber. This is where a 2-pack black resin called Loctite 4105 comes in handy. It cures in seconds, can be easily sanded, and accepts French polish - which, if you sand down the repaired end assiduously, will render your repair invisible (unless, of course, you look at the inside!) Good luck!


I think it's this one - needs rebuild of one end



#20 stormforce10

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 02:25 PM

A progress report,
What a nightmare, I now understand why there are a few unfinished restorations that go through on ebay.
Its fiddley and time consuming, getting things right is trickey, and I consider myself to be quite handy.
She has nearly been in the bin a few times.
Sorting out the leverarm bushes so the buttons go up and down freely with the pads covering the hole evenly,
with good pressure from the spring, takes patience and time.
Iv'e wasted a lot of the bushing material and Iv'e had to cut off a number of pads and start again.

Spindizzy, yes, that is the one, one end gone and the other end has damage around the thumb strap,
some of which does'nt show in the pictures, as I consider this area to be a load area, I have decided to sort out two new ends.

When I looked into it, in more detail, Iv'e realised it is very difficult to make new ends,
however I think I have now found a good solution, I was hoping to have them done today,
but I now think it will be Monday or Tuesday, more details and pictures on Tuesday.

Today, Iv'e stuck some more pads down, the buttons are free, the pads cover the hole, I'm going off to celebrate.

#21 Dirge

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 03:07 PM

For a one off would it be easier to fret a couple of ends out of dural, brass (which you then get plated), or perhaps German silver? Find a car panel beater with a wheeling machine to put in the dome then drill and file by hand? Still alot of work but much easier than working in wood. Cut up the old ends to make the bushing boards?

#22 david robertson

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 04:07 PM

The area round the thumbstrap doesn't really take much stress. The load is distributed through the spacer post right down to the action board - the other two screws are just to locate the thumbstrap and stop it rotating. However, now that we know that most of one end is conspicuous by its absence, I'm sure I'm not the only one who can't wait to find out the exact nature of your cunning plan!

#23 Chris Ghent

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Posted 13 February 2010 - 10:47 PM

Looks like a great project, with potentially a very nice concertina at the end.

Every (its not many!) well used English I have been inside exhibited sloppiness in the bracket which holds the strap. It was always a case of the wood in the action board below the long screw being worn out and the screw no longer gripping. In one case, for a player who really flings the concertina about, I replaced the wooden riser with a thin brass one, drilled and tapped each end 10BA. I drilled in from under the soundboard, countersunk the hole and installed a 10BA machine screw through into the riser with a little loctite to make it semipermanent and airtight. At the other (thunbstall) end I made a small brass plate to replace the leather piece and tapped two 10BA holes for the two outside screws, and made a through hole for the central screw. I then installed the top three screws as usual, but now the outside screws went into a solid brass plate and the middle one went through into the brass riser. The whole structure (which I repeated for the little finger rests also) makes an instrument which felt flimsy feel very solid. I'm sure if Wheatstone had anticipated the longevity of these instruments they would have done someting more substantial themselves.

Chris

#24 stormforce10

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 10:27 AM

The ends, I was talking to a friend about the problem with the ends, he is a good laminater for a high tec boat company, he said carbon fibre, I said it was a musical instrument and not a boat, he said google it.
I did a quick search and found they make violins, mandolins and cello's from carbon fibre, also carbon fibre has good resonance, well thats good enough for me. I made a plug, he made the mould and laminated me a couple of ends. The quality of the picture is not too good, old plastic camera, but you can see they came out ok. Not the true shape of the original ends, mine are evenly domed but they should be ok.

I will make up a jig for the button holes, but not sure what to do about the fretwork.

#25 stormforce10

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 10:34 AM

Help!!
Picture did not load, I browsed for the picture, then clicked attach this file, but it did not load what an I doing wrong????

#26 chris

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 10:37 AM

The ends, I was talking to a friend about the problem with the ends, he is a good laminater for a high tec boat company, he said carbon fibre, I said it was a musical instrument and not a boat, he said google it.
I did a quick search and found they make violins, mandolins and cello's from carbon fibre, also carbon fibre has good resonance, well thats good enough for me. I made a plug, he made the mould and laminated me a couple of ends. The quality of the picture is not too good, old plastic camera, but you can see they came out ok. Not the true shape of the original ends, mine are evenly domed but they should be ok.

I will make up a jig for the button holes, but not sure what to do about the fretwork.


Er! what picture??
chris

hmm! sorry - cross post:(

Edited by chris, 16 February 2010 - 10:38 AM.


#27 stormforce10

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 10:47 AM

Lets see if this works !!

Attached Thumbnails

  • concertina3b.jpg


#28 Theo

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 10:53 AM

I will make up a jig for the button holes, but not sure what to do about the fretwork.


For the fretwork, you will need to learn to use a fretsaw! For power fretsaw, the best by far is a Hegner which has a mechanism which moves the blade in a true vertical line. Cheaper makes have a pivoting arrangement so the blade tilts slightly as it cuts, making it less easy to control. You may also be able to use a hand fretsaw, but either way you have many hours of cutting ahead of you. Laser cutting, or water jet cutting could be an option.

#29 Dirge

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 02:14 PM


I will make up a jig for the button holes, but not sure what to do about the fretwork.


For the fretwork, you will need to learn to use a fretsaw! For power fretsaw, the best by far is a Hegner which has a mechanism which moves the blade in a true vertical line. Cheaper makes have a pivoting arrangement so the blade tilts slightly as it cuts, making it less easy to control. You may also be able to use a hand fretsaw, but either way you have many hours of cutting ahead of you. Laser cutting, or water jet cutting could be an option.


Or drill and file? Or plan another design all round holes? A cnc program that will fill a field with hexagons of holes, perhaps? The ends won't look original anyway so I'd find a new simpler design with about the same amount of air in it. It'll be strong so you can have bigger holes than the original.

#30 Chris Ghent

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 05:29 PM

Nice experiment! If concertinas had been invented today they would be made of plastics and carbon fibre. Could I ask, how thick is the carbon fibre?

By stepping sideways you have freed yourself from the need to copy the old design. One possibility would be the comma design which consists of many drilled holes each of which has a tail fretsawed out, turning it into a comma shape.

Chris

#31 Leonard

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 06:52 PM

By stepping sideways you have freed yourself from the need to copy the old design. One possibility would be the comma design which consists of many drilled holes each of which has a tail fretsawed out, turning it into a comma shape.


For photos see this post

#32 Theo

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 07:04 PM

By stepping sideways you have freed yourself from the need to copy the old design. One possibility would be the comma design which consists of many drilled holes each of which has a tail fretsawed out, turning it into a comma shape.

Chris


But be aware that the 'dot and comma' design will have a big effect on the sound, making it much more muted than a more open fretwork pattern.

#33 Chris Ghent

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 09:23 PM

I wasn't suggesting a layout for the design, merely the motif. It could be made open or closed depending on how many you used and how big they are...

Chris

#34 Chris Drinkwater

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Posted 16 February 2010 - 10:04 PM

RE: Chris Drinkwater's Edeophone #58856. Actually, it appears to date from the early 1920s--probably in 1922. Relative to many other Lacehnal concertinas, a fairly accurate estimate is faciliated by two Lachenal bills of sale--(1) a bill of sale, showing that "Mr. A. E. Perkins" purchased both #58885 (56 Key) and #58887 (48-key Edeophone with bowing valves) on July 10, 1923 and (2) a bill of sale, showing the purchase of #59086 (56-key Edeophone) on April 2, 1923. Thus, it appears that Mr. Perkins's concertinas were made in 1922 and held in inventory for several months.
During the 1923-1930 period, it appears that Lachenal made about 1,000 English concertinas, or about 125 instruments per year on average. A bill of sale dated 19 September 1930 was for Edeophone #60263.



Thanks for that info. So, my Edeophone is some 6 years older than I previously thought it was. Where did you get this information from? How did these bills of sale come to light? The average of 125 English Concertinas per year being made during the period 1923-1930, equates to approximately two and half instruments a week being made. The difference between my Edeophone serial number 58856 and 59086, with a bill of sale dated April 12th 1923, is 230. So, at an average of two and a half instruments a week being made, while they may not all be English concertinas, it would take approximately 92 weeks to make those 230 instruments. That's one year and 40 weeks; and by my reckoning, means my instrument could have been made sometime in June/July 1921, even earlier still. Interesting.

Chris

Edited by Chris Drinkwater, 16 February 2010 - 10:23 PM.


#35 Greg Jowaisas

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 07:58 AM

A couple of Holmwood pics for more inspiration in the comma fretwork style (Thanks to Michael P, for the pics):


Keep us posted on your project and good luck.

Greg

#36 stormforce10

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Posted 17 February 2010 - 02:31 PM

Chris, the ends are 4mm thick, the original ends are just over 3mm, but as the side is incorporated with the end, I wanted it a little wider to get a good seal with the action plate sides which are 5mm thick. Also with vacuum bagging you can never be sure of the final dimension, it started off around 5mm but compressed to 4mm.

Roger




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