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Does the duet have a great future... discuss?


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#37 Ralph Jordan

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 04:54 PM

May be it's me, but reading personal exchange on public forum, visited by people from different parts of the World, is not that exiting. No pushing, but I'd recommend using personal messaging or emails for reminiscences about who met who and where in the neighborhood. The topic was of interest, let's keep it up.
P.S.
Or at least post nice concertina related pictures or sound files from Birmingham or Black Diamond club.
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From foggy San Francisco with Love.


Speaking only for myself, I found it interesting.

regards

John Wild


Me too!

I like to be able to keep up with (some of) what's going on in the concertina world, without having to leave the house.

Agreeing With Pete and John.
Yes. The original question of whether the Duet has a future has been answered.
It still remains a pertinent point that, there are very few players out there, and I see no problem in using this thread to stay in touch. If anyone doesn't like that. Hit the back button and go and read something else.
Personally, via this thread, I've got back in touch with someone who lives a long way from me. I think that that is a good thing. Discussing music doesn't have to be merely a cerebral process. It also involves human interactions.
Would love to hear stories of Duet players from other countries too. I might not understand the context, or know the people involved. But I would find it interesting to read.
Regards Ralphie

#38 Alan Day

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 05:29 PM

It is the personal exchanges that make this site interesting. Rather like someone telling you a joke and it triggers your mind to come back with a similar one. Same thing here a story, or meeting triggers a story from someone else.
It is friendship and that's why we are here. I have read some wonderful stories on this site that have made me laugh out loud. They are vaguely connected with concertinas, sometimes not at all.
Just keep it going.
Al

#39 Irene S.

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 08:22 PM

May be it's me, but reading personal exchange on public forum, visited by people from different parts of the World, is not that exiting. No pushing, but I'd recommend using personal messaging or emails for reminiscences about who met who and where in the neighborhood. The topic was of interest, let's keep it up.
P.S.
Or at least post nice concertina related pictures or sound files from Birmingham or Black Diamond club.
-----------------------
From foggy San Francisco with Love.


M3838 ... others have already responded to this posting of yours. Since it would appear to be an immediately direct response to the postings of myself and David, and I actually started this thread up after Al's prompting, I think I ought to make some sort of reply. I'm sorry, but I think it is just you, and that you are out on a limb here. I totally agree with what the others have said. In the past I have found myself interested in personal reminiscences and chit chat on other threads ... no different here . In a way the topic certainly encompasses this type of chit chat - as I originally said a number of us were not aware of quite a few of the other players out there .We are a small community in the overall group of concertina players - so what's wrong with talking to each other ? As a result of the chit chat , I've become aware that several duet players turn up at sessions that I'm likely to be able to attend at Sidmouth Folk Festival, other than the one or two that I was already aware of; one new member has signed up and has been in pm contact with me who doesn't live all that far away from me; I'm just as intererested in the comings and goings of people who are not in the UK. Ralphie appears to have made contact with someone he hasn't spoken to in a long time, and I've learned something about a couple of people from Dirge and elsewhere that I only knew as names before, and who have achieved a more 3D rather than 2D personality .As a result of these conversations I quite look forward to meeting some of the correspondents for the first time at some point in the future if the opportunity ever arises .

To be perfectly honest I am very unlikely to be that interested in pictures of concertinas .... pretty as they may be in some instances it is a rather anorak-y pursuit (and actually they have even less relevance to the topic of the thread than personal reminiscences do) . Sound bites, yes, that can be interesting .... but at the end of the day concertinas are played by people, and the music they make is to some large extent the result of who they are (if they have any soul at all). So I find the chit chat just as interesting as the informative stuff. Heaven forbid that this forum should become as restrictive and stuffy as some of the others that I have come across :(

Edited by Irene S, 15 January 2010 - 08:33 PM.


#40 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 09:01 PM

It's not a big issue for me, but I tend to agree with m3838 on this one - so if he's out on a limb I'm at least part of the way out there with him. Perhaps I would feel differently if I knew some of the people involved or if I lived in the UK.

Daniel

May be it's me, but reading personal exchange on public forum, visited by people from different parts of the World, is not that exiting. No pushing, but I'd recommend using personal messaging or emails for reminiscences about who met who and where in the neighborhood. The topic was of interest, let's keep it up.
P.S.
Or at least post nice concertina related pictures or sound files from Birmingham or Black Diamond club.
-----------------------
From foggy San Francisco with Love.


M3838 ... others have already responded to this posting of yours. Since it would appear to be an immediately direct response to the postings of myself and David, and I actually started this thread up after Al's prompting, I think I ought to make some sort of reply. I'm sorry, but I think it is just you, and that you are out on a limb here. I totally agree with what the others have said. In the past I have found myself interested in personal reminiscences and chit chat on other threads ... no different here . In a way the topic certainly encompasses this type of chit chat - as I originally said a number of us were not aware of quite a few of the other players out there .We are a small community in the overall group of concertina players - so what's wrong with talking to each other ? As a result of the chit chat , I've become aware that several duet players turn up at sessions that I'm likely to be able to attend at Sidmouth Folk Festival, other than the one or two that I was already aware of; one new member has signed up and has been in pm contact with me who doesn't live all that far away from me; I'm just as intererested in the comings and goings of people who are not in the UK. Ralphie appears to have made contact with someone he hasn't spoken to in a long time, and I've learned something about a couple of people from Dirge and elsewhere that I only knew as names before, and who have achieved a more 3D rather than 2D personality .As a result of these conversations I quite look forward to meeting some of the correspondents for the first time at some point in the future if the opportunity ever arises .

To be perfectly honest I am very unlikely to be that interested in pictures of concertinas .... pretty as they may be in some instances it is a rather anorak-y pursuit (and actually they have even less relevance to the topic of the thread than personal reminiscences do) . Sound bites, yes, that can be interesting .... but at the end of the day concertinas are played by people, and the music they make is to some large extent the result of who they are (if they have any soul at all). So I find the chit chat just as interesting as the informative stuff. Heaven forbid that this forum should become as restrictive and stuffy as some of the others that I have come across :(



#41 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 15 January 2010 - 09:27 PM

I can't speak for the duet's future in the overall concertina world, but I definitely look forward to its future for me. I've played Anglo for 30 years and, like Boney/Jeff, had my interest in duet-style Anglo lead me to want to try out an actual duet. I've been playing Hayden since June and I'm having a lot of fun with it, even thought I only have a 34-key Elise. I've encouraged other prospective players to consider the Hayden but haven't got any takers so far.

I'll make a few observations...

I played Anglo for a couple years, and found myself gravitating towards ragtime, old marches, and other more "fully arranged" tunes. The challenge and puzzle of figuring arrangements out on Anglo was fun, but I decided I wanted to express the music, not enjoy the challenge. So I decided to try duet, and relatively quickly switched over.

I agree that to make a complex arrangement on Anglo or English, one must be more creative, instead of just bashing away the same old chords, a habit you can get into on duet. And at least on the Hayden/Wicki system, it's very easy to work out simple tunes, and the the difficulty comes in when making arrangements that even approach the potential of the system.

I've been playing a 46-key Hayden, a concertina-reeded Wakker. It would be fun to have a larger range, but there's a LOT you can do with only 46 keys, if you don't mind transposing and adapting things. I like the size and charm of the smaller instrument, so I'm not dying to upgrade (although a big Wicki bandoneon would be a lot of fun to try). I don't agree you need a huge range to "fully utilize" a duet. It depends more on the kind of music you want to play, and how comfortable you are with adapting it.

I've been working on quite a few recordings for the Duet International album, so you all haven't heard what I've been up to lately. I have a few new tunes I really like playing. I still feel like I'm only doing fairly basic stuff, but I'm having fun with it. I learn pieces in generally one of two ways: by rearranging old public-domain sheet music (piano rags and the like), or by working them out from old recordings, mostly old '78s from the 20s or 30s (old-time tunes, waltzes, whatever). I don't change them around too much, but I'll add a few flourishes of my own.

Like the common stereotypes of what an Anglo or English sounds like, I think the perception of the duet's "sound" is based more on the type of music that's mostly played on them as opposed to the system itself. It is true that those seeking the versatility of the duet are much more likely to have eclectic musical tastes, and probably don't immerse themselves in any one style. Hence the perception I sometimes sense of the duet as a bit of a dilettante's instrument, or one that plays corny "standards" or stilted hymns. But I don't think that's the instrument's fault. When you see an accordion album from the '50s, it's a pretty good bet it'll be square standards in the same vein. But at the same time, people were playing sizzling gypsy music and sinuous tangos on the accordion. The stereotype is not the instrument's fault.

As far as learning goes, I'm a self-teacher by nature anyway. I know music well enough (although I'm learning more about it all the time), and I know what I want to play, and I experiment a lot, so I don't miss not having a teacher too much. Obviously I learn from and I'm inspired by listening to other players. Although it would be great to trade ideas with other compatible musicians sometime, if they play other systems or not. Maybe I'm learning slower than I would with a teacher, but I like exploring.

Playing the piano has never really appealed to me...I like the "wind instrument" feel of the bellows-driven free reeds. You can swoop and swell and all that. The pre-formed chords on the accordion are fun, but I guess I like to micro-manage things. A free-bass accordion would be an alternative to duet concertina, but the size and complexity don't appeal to me that much. The concertina just makes people smile.

I think the duet concertina has to be approached as its own instrument: It's not a souped-up anglo, it's not a mini accordion. It'll be a journey to figure what I can pull off on it, what corresponds to the instrument's strengths and my own inclinations. But I do think there's a huge potential there. Heck, I didn't even know what a concertina was seven years ago. Who knows what I'll be doing seven years from now?



#42 m3838

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 01:13 AM

.As a result of these conversations I quite look forward to meeting some of the correspondents for the first time at some point in the future if the opportunity ever arises .

It's not a big issue for me either. J simply am not in the UK like you are and to me this sort of "chit-chat" that spans for more than 2 replies is an indication of ethnocentric nature of the conversation. Nothing wrong with ethnocentrism per se, but it can be kept in private. I am simply jumping up and down, waving my arms and shouting: "I'm here too and I'm feeling ignored". It's like having a conversation among three people, when two know each other and chit-chatting about common things, while third is left out.

Sound bites, yes, that can be interesting .... but at the end of the day concertinas are played by people,



It's another persisting problem with this site: we are talky. I would imagine that a thread as such will have the music by Duet players held at topmost importance. It's the only reason for any future of any instrument. I've participated on Bandoneon, guitar, ukulele, pan flute and harmonica forums and ours is where the least amount of music is shared and produced. May be it's because we are very few, or concertina is so far an amateur instrument - who knows? Looks like most professional concertina players of 19 century were either English or Maccann players. Looks like with the music going out of style these pros are gone and instrument is in serious decline. Whoever plays it well - share it with us. Then such chit-chats will be inclusive.

#43 Dirge

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 05:27 AM

.As a result of these conversations I quite look forward to meeting some of the correspondents for the first time at some point in the future if the opportunity ever arises .

It's not a big issue for me either. J simply am not in the UK like you are and to me this sort of "chit-chat" that spans for more than 2 replies is an indication of ethnocentric nature of the conversation. Nothing wrong with ethnocentrism per se, but it can be kept in private. I am simply jumping up and down, waving my arms and shouting: "I'm here too and I'm feeling ignored". It's like having a conversation among three people, when two know each other and chit-chatting about common things, while third is left out.

Sound bites, yes, that can be interesting .... but at the end of the day concertinas are played by people,



It's another persisting problem with this site: we are talky. I would imagine that a thread as such will have the music by Duet players held at topmost importance. It's the only reason for any future of any instrument. I've participated on Bandoneon, guitar, ukulele, pan flute and harmonica forums and ours is where the least amount of music is shared and produced. May be it's because we are very few, or concertina is so far an amateur instrument - who knows? Looks like most professional concertina players of 19 century were either English or Maccann players. Looks like with the music going out of style these pros are gone and instrument is in serious decline. Whoever plays it well - share it with us. Then such chit-chats will be inclusive.

You are of course absolutely right. It is disgraceful for a small group of people to talk about concertinas in a way that excludes others. We should be ashamed of ourselves and I, for one, hope it stops forthwith. I can see huge gains from a bit more discipline on Cnet. Personally I will benefit from no more of those tiresome discussions about 'How you finger such-and-such a tune on a GD Anglo', 'Whether such and such an Irish folk musician is still going', 'The wonders of the Tenor-treble English' and such like.

I, myself, will miss the non-concertina digressions, which I have always enjoyed and even found illuminating at times, but it will be well worth it to find only material that I am directly involved in.

#44 PeterT

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 05:50 AM

I, myself, will miss the non-concertina digressions, which I have always enjoyed and even found illuminating at times, but it will be well worth it to find only material that I am directly involved in.


It's this element which keeps me visiting, regularly, if not posting as regularly as before.

What I find "interesting", is the perception that people visiting C.net have to read every new posting. After my first few months, I had formed a view as to who was more likely to post informative, interesting, or amusing topics, and modified my reading accordingly. On topics where "trenches were dug" etc., I tended to avoid much of the debate. Hopefully this era has passed (at least for a while).

There are culteral differences on both sides of "the pond", and this is reflected in both the subjects and manner of postings. Sometimes, this can make a topic more interesting and/or entertaining. After all, how many would choose to visit a forum where they are only served a diet of dry "facts"?

So; I would encourage readers to be more selective.

#45 michael sam wild

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 05:58 AM

Can I suggest we all jump ship and join those specialist social networks for individual models of concertina.

In biological taxonomy we have 'lumpers' and 'splitters'. We could go further, I would like a South Yorkshire Maccannn Duet 46b site and a Sheffield Jeffries Anglo 26b Irish players site.

In fact I might just stay in on my own and play with myself, which is what I was doing before I joined this mob!Posted Image

#46 Ralph Jordan

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 07:11 AM

[quote name='m3838' date='16 January 2010 - 01:13 AM' timestamp='1263622434' post='106995']
[quote].

Looks like with the music going out of style these pros are gone and instrument is in serious decline. Whoever plays it well - share it with us. Then such chit-chats will be inclusive.
[/quote]

Well, I don't know about America, but I can't go to any session in the UK without tripping over yet another Duet player! Compared with 20 years ago, they seem to be breeding like rabbits over here! So, Serious decline? I think not. As for sharing it. Have a listen to some of my humble offerings on the record/video thread.
At one point Al Day was thinking of cutting down the Duet International CD release to 1 instead of 3 discs, because he didn't think that there was enough players around.... I think he's changed his mind now!
I don't have a list of all artists, so, I don't know how many are from the US. But, if you're out there, send him your recordings.
(or, do as I have done, post up examples here, for us all to hear). Not in any judgemental way, I hasten to add, but as I've said before, I'm always intrigued by the path that fellow Duettists take. Borders are not boundaries.
I would love to hear examples of your playing. Indeed, anyone from anywhere!. In this way we can all learn.
Pace Ralphie

#47 Ralph Jordan

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 07:13 AM



In fact I might just stay in on my own and play with myself, which is what I was doing before I joined this mob!Posted Image


This comment conjures up too many images for an old man like me! Lol!

#48 Irene S.

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 08:01 AM

In biological taxonomy we have 'lumpers' and 'splitters'. We could go further, I would like a South Yorkshire Maccannn Duet 46b site and a Sheffield Jeffries Anglo 26b Irish players site.



That'll be a group of one in each case then will it Mr Wild?? Thanks, I'm still laughing at that one :lol:

In fact I might just stay in on my own and play with myself, which is what I was doing before I joined this mob!


Errmmm :o

LOL!

#49 michael sam wild

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 08:57 AM

In fact I might just stay in on my own and play with myself, which is what I was doing before I joined this mob!Posted Image


This comment conjures up too many images for an old man like me! Lol!



In t'North we would normally say 'play wi' misen' or 'play on us oan' it flows more readily in the dialect than 'play by myself' but it obviously confuses Southern folk. No offence meant mi owd.!

Edited by michael sam wild, 16 January 2010 - 08:58 AM.


#50 Ralph Jordan

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 09:08 AM

In fact I might just stay in on my own and play with myself, which is what I was doing before I joined this mob!Posted Image


This comment conjures up too many images for an old man like me! Lol!



In t'North we would normally say 'play wi' misen' or 'play on us oan' it flows more readily in the dialect than 'play by myself' but it obviously confuses Southern folk. No offence meant mi owd.!

None taken Owd Bean!

#51 m3838

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 12:26 PM

Have a listen to some of my humble offerings on the record/video thread.



Record/video thread? Can you give direct links? May be I missed it.
I am very interested in Duet idea. One of the main reason I'm not playing one is lack of inspiring (to me) music from duet players. Another was low quality of my small Crane.
And by "lack of music" I don't mean the style or tunes I didn't like. I mostly was put off by the bellowing of sustained notes on the left. It's something I am struggling with the English as well.Tom Lawrence with his lightning sharp harmony is my example to follow in this case. Though sometimes he also uses those bits and it always hurts my ears..

#52 m3838

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 12:34 PM

You are of course absolutely right. It is disgraceful for a small group of people to talk about concertinas in a way that excludes others.


I got the tongue in cheek aspect.

#53 Dirge

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 01:53 PM

At one point Al Day was thinking of cutting down the Duet International CD release to 1 instead of 3 discs, because he didn't think that there was enough players around.... I think he's changed his mind now!


Is that so? I didn't realise he'd been so successful in rooting players out. So we're not as obscure as we thought then? Not sure whether to be pleased or sorry about that.

How many likely participants have you got Al? Is that a dark secret too?

#54 Ralph Jordan

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Posted 16 January 2010 - 04:39 PM

Have a listen to some of my humble offerings on the record/video thread.



Record/video thread? Can you give direct links? May be I missed it.
I am very interested in Duet idea. One of the main reason I'm not playing one is lack of inspiring (to me) music from duet players. Another was low quality of my small Crane.
And by "lack of music" I don't mean the style or tunes I didn't like. I mostly was put off by the bellowing of sustained notes on the left. It's something I am struggling with the English as well.Tom Lawrence with his lightning sharp harmony is my example to follow in this case. Though sometimes he also uses those bits and it always hurts my ears..

If you go to the Concertina Music/Video thread and open up "New Year Demos" you'll find a couple of links to some audio. Hope you like them!
Regards Ralphie

Edited by Ralph Jordan, 16 January 2010 - 04:52 PM.





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