Anglo-chinese Concertina

[harpomatic]

Amigos,

I just got my first 30 button Anglo Chinese concertina($85.00), and I love it. I play harmonicas(diatonic & chromatic, semi-pro) for 20+ years, own about 30 of them or so, fix and tune reeds, played every other kind of "free reed" family member - in short, I KNOW reeds and all that they do. Having said this, let me tell you that my new Anglo-Chinese is a great starter concertina - I love the sound, airtightness and price. My goal is to play both concertina and harmonica on the rack, doing bends on harp and backing up myself on concertina.

 

As a harmonica player, I understand the "aquisition syndrome" that we all may experience from time to time, however, isn't it true that a 30button anglo can play in all keys, as it is fully chromatic? That is how the chromatic harmonica is used. Surely, some keys are harder to play than others, some chords are not comfortably available for some keys, but all in all, concertina seems to offer more choices in fingering chords and melody in any key. Is that correct? (I'm already thinking of a F/C, lower sounding instrument:)

 

Love to all,

thank you for the wealth of info I already found here,

Misha Rabin.

[Alan Day]

Hallo Misha your posting and talking about harmonicas made me try something for the first time tonight. Holding the Lh side of the concertina between the knees and playing the tune on the right hand, you can use the free left hand over the fretting to create the same effect as harmonica playing even the WA WA sound.

Great fun.

Al A DOO WA WA

[bill_mchale]

Misha,

Well I am glad you enjoy your new instrument; that being said, wait until you try one of the hybrids... There is a dismayingly large gulf in the quality between low cost Chinese and Italian concertinas and the hybrids.. far larger I would say than the difference between the hybrids and traditional concertinas. I would say the instrument you have will be just enough to get you addicted... but you will probably soon start running into its limitations. A good hybrid though rather pricey (particularly for someone who specializes in a relatively low cost instrument like the harmonica) will allow you to play with an ease and speed (particularly for ornaments) that just isn't possible on the lower priced instruments. I will say one thing for the Chinese Boxes, the ones I have tried have all seemed fairly air tight which is more than I can say for all the Stagis I have tried (though the Stagis key layout was better).

 

Regarding chromatic possibilities.. I am pretty sure a 30 button will play all the basic major and minor chords, but I don't think it will do all the 7ths... and of course some of them are rather difficult to pull off, thats why there are 36, 38, 40 and 45 button Anglos out there

 

--

Bill

[stuart estell]

Holding the Lh side of the concertina  between the knees and playing the tune on the right hand, you can use the free left hand over the fretting to create the same effect as harmonica playing even the WA WA sound.

You must have enormous hands, Al And for my next trick...

 

however, isn't it true that a 30button anglo can play in all keys, as it is fully chromatic?

Well, it depends what you try to do with it to be honest. If you use it as a melody instrument, then the answer is pretty much "yes". If you want to try and play melody with the right hand and chordal accompaniments in the left a 30-key C/G becomes less and less useful the more sharps or flats you add. Into sharp keys, going as far as E major is just about OK - heading towards flats, Bb and flatter can present some challenges because of bellows directions and lack of availability of notes in the octaves you want them.

Edited December 28, 2004 by stuart estell

[harpomatic]

Hello comrades!

Al, cool idea - I'll try it myself, right after I send this message. Currently I'm curious about how to bend notes on the thing, if possible at all. I heard it done by the guy from "Kroke" klezmer trio, on Chromatic BA, on low notes, just like harmonica. Not a volume bend, but a pitch bend, and really deep. Wow!

 

Bill, what is a hybrid? You are correct that my Ango-Chinese is good to get me started(infected) - for days I cannot think of anything but the concertina. As in harmonicas, air-tightness is so important, and this one is tight, like a good harmonica. But I'm curious about hybrid's action/ease of playing. If it's not the air tightness, are the higher reeds more responsive?

 

Stuart, I do think of my concertina as an overblown, multi-row chromatic harp,

and as such, it offers wealth of chromatic options. Of course, it is an instrument of its own, and soon I'll be thinking of it more and more as such, but that's how I start.

Thank you for your comments,

Happy Holidays,

Misha.

[bill_mchale]

Bill, what is a hybrid? You are correct that my Ango-Chinese is good to get me started(infected) - for days I cannot think of anything but the concertina. As in harmonicas, air-tightness is so important, and this one is tight, like a good harmonica. But I'm curious about hybrid's action/ease of playing. If it's not the air tightness, are the higher reeds more responsive?

Misha,

What is a hybrid you say? For shame, you did not buy the Anglo Concertina's buyers guide.

 

In short, depending on how you classify them, 3 or 4 different classes of concertina.

 

1. Chinese Boxes; these are the least expensive. As far as I can tell they are made using accordion reeds mounted like they would be in accordions (using wax in reed blocks) and have accordion style bellows. The one I played was air-tight but relatively response wise and had buttons that had rather too much travel... Also I couldn't reach the airbutton while I was playing.

 

2. Euro/Italian sourced boxes. These are step up, but use similar reeds and reed mounting techniques. Again their tends to be too much button travel, though usually the buttons are layed out a bit better. The cheaper ones still use accordion style bellows but the upper end switches over to a more traditional bellows. The ones I have had experience with have been somewhat less than airtight. The price range on these seems to range from about $250 to $800 USD.

 

3. Hybrids. Some people have taken to calling these mid-range boxes, but I really don't think that is being fair to them; they are all hand made and in general play very well. They use accordion reeds but by and large stick with traditional concertina construction; in particular they usually secure the reeds with screws to a reed pan as opposed to waxing them to a reed block (the Morse concertinas are an exception in both regards using a method of mounting the reeds that is pretty much unique; the reed pan is simply the back of the action plate (where the buttons are mounted) and they are mounted with wax). These differences make them more durable (accordion construction really isn't that suited for an instrument as small as the concertina), more responsive and also bring the tone closer to the tone heard in vintage instruments. In reality most of the hybrids are better than many of the older vintage instruments out there. For new the price range runs from about $1600 to a bit over $2000. The price on a used one can be somewhat less but still over about $1200.

 

4. Traditional... I use this term to refer to all concertinas that use real concertina reeds and traditional construction; it includes both vintage instruments and new instruments. The best of these instruments is probably what made alot of us fall in love with the concertina in the first place. Reeds are mounted in a reed pan usually with screws. The prices on these are rather high, usually used instruments costing much more than new (since the waiting list on most of the newer instruments is measured in years). Prices on traditional instruments from a known maker start at about $3500 (I think that is right with Suttner, but it depends on the current exchange rate) and go up from there. Some of the lesser known makers of traditional instruments might charge less.. but of course you take your chances.

 

Anyway, I hope this helps.

 

--

Bill

[JimLucas]

I think this really belongs in the Teaching/Learning subForum, but I'm not going to try to divert it, now.

 

...isn't it true that a 30button anglo can play in all keys, as it is fully chromatic?

All the notes of the chromatic scale within most of its range, but not all in both directions, and some pairs of notes -- never mind full chords -- simply aren't available.

 

...I am pretty sure a 30 button will play all the basic major and minor chords, but I don't think it will do all the 7ths...

Many chords are not available in reasonable inversions and/or reasonable parts of the range. E.g., you can't get both the C and Eb together in the lower octave for a Cm chord on a standard C/G. And a few chords aren't possible at all, e.g., C# major, or Fm. On the other hand, one can often get away with letting notes go missing, if they can be implied by context. E.g., within a simple tune in C, playing just a B and F together will be "heard" as a G7 chord, even though the G and D are missing, because that's the only chord containing those two notes that "fits" the music.