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Sizes And Weights Of Different Model Concertinas


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I've been involved in music and the music business nearly my entire life. Here's the common expression that I have always heard:

 

"The music business is a cruel and shallow money trench, a long plastic hallway where pimps and thieves run free, and good men die like dogs. There's also a negative side."

attributed to Hunter S. Thompson

 

I must say that it is sure relaxing to play the concertina... if I can just find a decent one at a decent price... I will say no more!!!

 

A lot of guys like Robert Pich, David Robertson, Chris Algar, to name only a few have been an awesome help! I've searched (harassed) the world!

 

But... are these musical instruments or antiques? Maybe both! I'm finding out. When I come up with my $500 carbon fibre model that sounds smoother than an Aeola, with unbelievable action, lite weight, even response, speed, balance and dynamics.. and with an indestructible bellows also made of modern materials so that you can leave to whole thing in the back of a boiling hot car all day... look out! Maybe I'm a dreamer... but...

 

Don't worry... Right now I'm only in it for the joy of playing a tune. To me that's priceless! I'm flat broke and still trekking along with my completely unrestored and out of tune but awesome bone button Lachenal. No cash right now, but I feel like the richest guy on earth discovering what can be done with this wonderful instrument!!!

 

I'm just a musician therefore no beans to count... Give me a gig!

 

John

Edited by 4to5to6
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John, I would just suggest rather to worry about the quality (in terms of being suitable for producing lovely sounds) than about the range of an instrument at present, as a treble EC (in the range of a violin) is in fact a great instrument in its own right, including the ability of playing "bass" runs... :)

 

Best wishes - Wolf

 

(who would love to have a TT at hand as well but is nevertheless very happy with playing his treble, as long as it's the one and only instrument - concertina - available)

Edited by blue eyed sailor
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Thanks Wolf. Just dreaming I guess. You are right, the fact is, as much as I would like a TT, availability and price make it impossible anyway. I have no choice but to stick with 48 keys and just see how far I can take it. Lite weight and response are the advantages of a treble as well as availability and lower cost so what's not to like! Contentment!

 

On the music side, I've been getting into playing scales in double note octaves, a bit of a challenge on the EC. Figured out a new tune today... Tabhair Dom Do Lamh... one of my favourites! I hope to play it for a certain wonderful lady in my life soon! Thoinot Arbeau Bransles tomorrow maybe. I love 1500s music. As long as I'm busy and having fun, I'm happy! It will take me years to master the treble anyway if ever I even can. Action and response is really bad on what I have though which is slowing me down... not that I have to play super fast all the time. Can barely play Danny Chapman's Rat In Bed waltz even without the bass counterpoint. I find bellows control is still the big challenge... It's an art :) to play smooth and even but it would be ease if the keys all responded the same! Getting there. I already know the tunes from playing the whistle for years... Tunes are in my head... just have to get them out! Again, I'm really only just the bass player anyway! It's great to be out of the basement for a change.. into the sunshine of the upper octaves.

 

John

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Again, I'm really only just the bass player anyway! It's great to be out of the basement for a change.. into the sunshine of the upper octaves.

...and the still higher octaves are nice too (contrary to common belief) - in some session or crowded situation (where harmony from a concertina isn't welcomed anyways) I just switched to the octave above everyone's playing which gave a really nice (and even cutting-through, so watch out what you're playing then!) effect...

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My impression is that Hohners aren't well regarded, but this ad on eBay may provoke some discussion. The seller says it plays better than his Lachanal and is supposedly a Tenor-Treble, a range in which you have an interest.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOHNER-TENOR-TREBLE-ENGLISH-CONCERTINA-/261960091689?

 

I only count 48 buttons plus the air button, so maybe their Tenor-Trebles eliminate some of the upper notes rather than adding the 8 more at the bottom end. It would be interesting to know why he says it's a TT and it will also be interesting to hear others experiences with Hohners.

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Metal ended Tenor-Treble Edeophone 3 lb. 11.5 oz (1690 gm) 6.75" (171 mm) across the flats

 

Metal ended Wheatstone Mod. 21 Tenor 2 lb 14.5 oz (1320 gm) 6.25" (159 mm)

 

Wood ended Lachenal Tenor - model with 5 fold bellows and bone keys 2 lb 11.5 oz (1235 gm) 6.125" (156 mm)

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My impression is that Hohners aren't well regarded, but this ad on eBay may provoke some discussion. The seller says it plays better than his Lachanal and is supposedly a Tenor-Treble, a range in which you have an interest.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOHNER-TENOR-TREBLE-ENGLISH-CONCERTINA-/261960091689?

 

I only count 48 buttons plus the air button, so maybe their Tenor-Trebles eliminate some of the upper notes rather than adding the 8 more at the bottom end. It would be interesting to know why he says it's a TT and it will also be interesting to hear others experiences with Hohners.

Frankly, I can't find this very promising... [further comment deleted as I found the listing undeleted despite my first impression after inserting the full link, and can now judge the original text itself] However: "Better than his Lachenal" - which Lachenal? Mind you: Lachenals (or Rock Chidleys) aren't necessarily scrap at all... (and not every Wheatstone model or specimen is great), it depends...

 

Seems to be the usual Stagi model, see here, don't know if "48060/2" means double-reeded? most likely not a TT (albeit the seller is claiming, not just supposing that), and defenitely not an Instrument I'd like to own myself either... We don't know how bad his other Hohners, or Lachenals, or Rock Chidley have been anyways...

 

Best wishes - Wolf

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My impression is that Hohners aren't well regarded, but this ad on eBay may provoke some discussion. The seller says it plays better than his Lachanal and is supposedly a Tenor-Treble, a range in which you have an interest.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HOHNER-TENOR-TREBLE-ENGLISH-CONCERTINA-/261960091689?

 

I only count 48 buttons plus the air button, so maybe their Tenor-Trebles eliminate some of the upper notes rather than adding the 8 more at the bottom end. It would be interesting to know why he says it's a TT and it will also be interesting to hear others experiences with Hohners.

...most likely not a TT (albeit the seller is claiming, not just supposing that....

 

I guess I need to repeat: According to the old Wheatstone terminology, what many people today are giving the separate name "tenor" was still a "tenor treble", a 48-button "tenor treble". So the description in the above auction, while contrary to some folks' intuition, is not necessarily inaccurate. I believe Stagi (who built/builds "Hohners") did (maybe still does) make some 48-button tenor-trebles, aka "tenors".

 

In the old Wheatstone terminology, the first part of a two-part name indicated the bottom of the instrument's range while the second part indicated the octave produced by standard "treble" fingering, not an upper limit of the range. One-part names are equivalent to two-part abbreviations of two-part names where the two parts are the same. (I.e., a "treble" would be a "treble treble"; a "baritone" would be a "baritone baritone"; etc.)

 

So for any compound name ending in "treble" -- "tenor treble", "baritione treble", even "bass treble" (I know of at least one, a 72-button) -- the instrument is essentially a treble extended downward by a greater or lesser amount. A "baritone" is an instrument where the standard treble fingering produces tones an octave lower than on a actual "treble". A "piccolo" sounds an octave higher than a "treble" for the same fingering. A "bass" sounds two octaves lower, and a "contrabass" -- according to some old price lists I've seen -- sounds two octaves lower. Then a "bass baritone" is a "baritone" extended downward into the "bass" range. Those few I've seen were the equivalent of "tenor trebles" but sounding an octave lower.throughout.

 

Note that in this terminology there can be no such thing as a "baritone tenor" or even a "tenor" ("tenor tenor"), since there's no separate "tenor" octave. (A "tenor baritone" might be possible, as a concertina with "baritone" fingering that only goes down to the C below middle C -- the bottom "tenor" note, -- but I've never heard of one, nor do I expect to.)

 

So talk about "tenors" as something distinct, if you like, but please don't accuse those who still use the old, unambiguous and more informative terminology (yeah, that includes me) of inaccuracy.

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Jim, I may be wrong regarding this concertina, but my statement didn't mean to imply what you're quite rightly objecting against. I'm well aware of the "old" terminology you're referring to and didn't judge just from the number of buttons. I simply did only know the Stagi 56 b TT and found this one looking just like the common Stagi treble, possibly double-reeded, and you (and the seller) can blame me for the premature post of course if I should be proven wrong. However I'm considering the difference as of some importance...

 

Besides, found myself in an unusual ranting mode here, which I believe was prompted by that "better than his Lachenal" phrase (which was not the seller's as it turned out) which I found annoying in several aspects... Should have kept calm and played folk music, which unfortunately was no option in the office at that time...

 

Best wishes - Wolf

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i Should have kept calm and played folk music, which unfortunately was no option in the office at that time...

 

They allow you to do concertina.net at the office? :huh: ;)

 

Sorry about jumping, Wolf.

 

As for the instrument, yes, it certainly does look like a treble, but remember that the Albion (Morse) baritone is exactly the same size as its corresponding treble, and Hohner/Stagi isn't likely to have made special ends (shifting the locations of the button holes, with attendant changes to the levers) if they only made a very few 48-button TTs. As for double reeds, almost certainly not. I've been inside those (back when Stagi was Bastari), and there's nowhere near enough room for twice as many (192) reeds.

 

But the seller says, "Please contact me via Ebay My Messages," so maybe somebody should ask him/her a few questions?

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i Should have kept calm and played folk music, which unfortunately was no option in the office at that time...

As for the instrument, yes, it certainly does look like a treble, but remember that the Albion (Morse) baritone is exactly the same size as its corresponding treble, and Hohner/Stagi isn't likely to have made special ends (shifting the locations of the button holes, with attendant changes to the levers) if they only made a very few 48-button TTs. As for double reeds, almost certainly not. I've been inside those (back when Stagi was Bastari), and there's nowhere near enough room for twice as many (192) reeds.

 

Of course you're right Jim, I was just trying to make sth. of the model number (and maybe was confusing the matter with those Klingenthal octave boxes) - as you say, maybe we get the answer from the seller (which I'm not able to contact myself since he or she hasn't included Germany, the listing isn't displayed on eBay.de).

 

Best wishes - Wolf

Edited by blue eyed sailor
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