Ornamentation And Rochelle

[bonenfant]

Hi anyone

I just bought a Rochelle concertina. I'm wondering if it's good enough to make rolls, triplets etc.... on it.

Thanks guys.

[bonenfant]

Gee !

49 views and no answers. Could it be that if you have a cheap instrument, you're kind of impure, not worthy ?

I've seen that before on other forums.

Just a taught.

[sqzbxr]

OK, I'll bite - why wouldn't it? Seems like a silly question to me.

 

Perhaps members have been embarrassed by the question itself and not the instrument of the questioner.

[JimLucas]

Gee !

49 views and no answers. Could it be that if you have a cheap instrument, you're kind of impure, not worthy ?

I've seen that before on other forums.

Just a taught.

Concertina.net has nearly 6000 members, most of whom rarely or never post, even though they read others' posts. And we don't all own Rochelles, so 49 views seems to me an insignificant fraction. What's more, not everyone who does reply (myself included) does so immediately.

 

Patience and tolerance are considered virtues here.

 

As for your original question: I've never played a Rochelle, but I have played more than one Jackie, the Rochelle's English concertina equivalent, and I was able to do cuts, rolls, and other ornaments on them. So I'd say the Rochelle is up to doing those ornaments if you are. Give it a try.

[bonenfant]

 

Gee !

49 views and no answers. Could it be that if you have a cheap instrument, you're kind of impure, not worthy ?

I've seen that before on other forums.

Just a taught.

Concertina.net has nearly 6000 members, most of whom rarely or never post, even though they read others' posts. And we don't all own Rochelles, so 49 views seems to me an insignificant fraction. What's more, not everyone who does reply (myself included) does so immediately.

 

Patience and tolerance are considered virtues here.

 

As for your original question: I've never played a Rochelle, but I have played more than one Jackie, the Rochelle's English concertina equivalent, and I was able to do cuts, rolls, and other ornaments on them. So I'd say the Rochelle is up to doing those ornaments if you are. Give it a try.

 

Awesome. I'm happy with all your answers. The reason I asked is because with a cheap accordion, grace notes are slower than on a good one.

Your answer must mean that the Rochelle is a good concertina for a beginner. Thanks again.

[Notemaker]

I have not managed to easily play single hand decorations on my Rochelle, but if I go end to end using two hands I can do it. On one end sometimes the buttons pop out and lock off the stem if I try to press too fast, then I have to stop and wiggle the button back on its stem.

Still it is not a deal breaker since I have learned loads of tunes in D and G on the Rochelle, including some ugly fingerings, like D minor, and such without having to pay high dollar for the opportunity of playing Anglo Concertina. Later when I can figure a way out to justify spending a small fortune on a better model I can then proceed with exploring the embellishments possible on a more solid action. From my experience with the Melodion I can testify that the better quality action makes adding decorations very easy, as opposed to on a lower quality action where it is almost impossible.

[JimLucas]

The reason I asked is because with a cheap accordion, grace notes are slower than on a good one.

Slower is not the same as impossible.

Your answer must mean that the Rochelle is a good concertina for a beginner.

It is. But beginner's aren't expected to match virtuosos in either speed or embellishments. If you keep at it, you will almost certainly reach a point where you'll want a better instrument, but you should still be able to do a lot with the Rochelle.

 

On the other hand, if you can afford a better instrument in the beginning, you will probably find learning easier. The usual advice here is that one should start with the best instrument one can afford, but that the Rochelle is a decent starter concertina and the only one of consistent quality at such a low price.

[JimLucas]

I have not managed to easily play single hand decorations on my Rochelle, but if I go end to end using two hands I can do it. On one end sometimes the buttons pop out and lock off the stem if I try to press too fast, then I have to stop and wiggle the button back on its stem.

 

I didn't have that problem with the Jackie's I've tried, though single-hand ornaments are unusual in my playing on the English. But I don't recall others complaining about that problem on the Rochelle. (Let's see what responses this gets.) Have you contacted Wim Wakker to ask whether it might be a correctable problem?

[Notemaker]

 

I have not managed to easily play single hand decorations on my Rochelle, but if I go end to end using two hands I can do it. On one end sometimes the buttons pop out and lock off the stem if I try to press too fast, then I have to stop and wiggle the button back on its stem.

 

I didn't have that problem with the Jackie's I've tried, though single-hand ornaments are unusual in my playing on the English. But I don't recall others complaining about that problem on the Rochelle. (Let's see what responses this gets.) Have you contacted Wim Wakker to ask whether it might be a correctable problem?

 

Thank you for replying. Well you are correct, it should, in most cases, not be a problem. However I have an early model which is approaching renovation and there are several little things that need fixing. After I posted my reply I was compelled to take off the ends and explore the source of the 'popping' button. It turned out to be nothing more than the end of the offending button lever snagging on another lever, so on random occasions it would click off the other lever up and push the button off the spike. When the offending lever end was bent away from its neighbor the problem ceased. As for the embellishments, I can do them easily almost on everything else that I have, Fiddle, TW, and to some extent on t Greek Bouzouki ( fiddle tuning ), so I know HOW to make the sounds on Concertina, however I suspect that very soon I would have many broken springs from the rigour of rapid repitition on them.

[JimLucas]

As for the embellishments, I can do them easily almost on everything else that I have, Fiddle, TW, and to some extent on t Greek Bouzouki ( fiddle tuning ), so I know HOW to make the sounds on Concertina...

Don't be so sure. My understanding is that ornaments are generally done similarly on the various stringed instruments. (That's what I tend to copy on my English.) Also on flute and whistle, with the exception of which "note" to use for cuts and the cut part of rolls. But on anglo concertina, the selection of the notes comprising a named ornament -- and in some cases even the number of notes comprising the ornament -- is frequently (usually?) quite different.

 

...however I suspect that very soon I would have many broken springs from the rigour of rapid repitition on them.

I don't see why. Aren't those springs made of steel?

[sidesqueeze]

I bought a Rochelle to keep as a beater or an emergency backup to my better anglos.

 

It's more difficult to play, of course. The action is stiff, but you can still get a lot out of it and you can learn lots of tunes with it.

 

Enjoy!

[tommyhawk]

I have been learning on a Rochelle for a few years now but when I started I was worried it wouldn't be quick enough for ornamentation too.

 

I can confirm that it is possible to perform cuts, grace notes and rolls on the Rochelle.

[bonenfant]

I have been learning on a Rochelle for a few years now but when I started I was worried it wouldn't be quick enough for ornamentation too.

 

I can confirm that it is possible to perform cuts, grace notes and rolls on the Rochelle.

Thanks, this is good news.

[Notemaker]

 

As for the embellishments, I can do them easily almost on everything else that I have, Fiddle, TW, and to some extent on t Greek Bouzouki ( fiddle tuning ), so I know HOW to make the sounds on Concertina...

Don't be so sure. My understanding is that ornaments are generally done similarly on the various stringed instruments. (That's what I tend to copy on my English.) Also on flute and whistle, with the exception of which "note" to use for cuts and the cut part of rolls. But on anglo concertina, the selection of the notes comprising a named ornament -- and in some cases even the number of notes comprising the ornament -- is frequently (usually?) quite different.

 

...however I suspect that very soon I would have many broken springs from the rigour of rapid repitition on them.

I don't see why. Aren't those springs made of steel?

 

Well yes they are, but in my case, and perhaps it may be due to the climate here, the springs tend to break. Just yesterday one broke and I had to make and fit a replacement! BTW I form my replacement springs from custom Guitar string wire, in this case I wanted a stiffer press so I selected a 19Th string. With care one can get several springs from one string. Here in the US i buy the strings for $1 each :0)