bill_mchale Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 [OK I was looking for it on the Buy and Sell forum, not in the classifieds. I still don't really see any obvious political or xenophobic notions. 'Prefer not to sell to US' can have a whole lot of reasons. As I said, it's no fun being on the excluded end. The phrase I saw smells distinctly like something political or xenophobic (okay by me). I WOULD LIKE THIS CONCERTINA TO STAY IN THE UK AND NOT GO TO THE US Sentiments along these lines have been expressed here before and I believe are an aberration. Mostly the C.Net community has been a safe harbor where we can commune with like minded souls on what matters (wonder what that could be?). For this I'm grateful. Besides, isn't it the full moon just now? I migth be howling mad by evening meself (I rather look forward to that ) ! Well this is definitely on the odd side. I can understand not willing to sell something outside the UK or the E.U. since I am sure there is more of a hassel involved regarding customs and what not. That being said, excluding a particular country does not necessarily mean he has something against the country per say. Perhaps the seller has sold something to the USA before and had problem with US Customs or what not. That being said, if it is a result of some sort of anti-american sentiment, it makes me sad. I like to think that musicians have something far more important in common than any particularly vague political sentiment (such as Country X sucks). -- Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaryK Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 "Thank you, Theodore, for pointing out that not all of us in the eeeeevul US are for the war." Political views ought to be discussed in another forum than this. I daresay that there are many contributors here who do support aspects of the war in Iraq or the war entirely; just as there are many who don't. Our enjoyment of the concertina and this space should be our common focus. Pick another forum to argue the merits of this or any other administration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I think I wouldn't care where the person who gets the instrument lives or was born. More important is that it is someone who will make sure it is played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Laban Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) "Thank you, Theodore, for pointing out that not all of us in the eeeeevul US are for the war." Political views ought to be discussed in another forum than this. I daresay that there are many contributors here who do support aspects of the war in Iraq or the war entirely; just as there are many who don't. Our enjoyment of the concertina and this space should be our common focus. Pick another forum to argue the merits of this or any other administration. Sorry but when did the war come into all of this? I pointed out that I have encountered numerous (well over a dozen) of instances of US citizens not willing to consider posting out their goods anywhere abroad. And given reactions above that's perfectly fine and there will be good resons found for it but if someone on the other side of the Atlantic states the same these possibly good reasons don't apply, it must be politics? Maybe the seller doesn't like Amerca for whatever reason, maybe there's a practical reason. I don't know, as I said above I find not being willing to sell to particular parts of the world for the wrong reasons a grating thing, whichever way it goes. No statements about politics were expressed by seller, those were suspected by the forum. Maybe they are there maybe they are not. If they are the reason for not selling to the US I think it is particularly silly and sad situation. I do confess however that I was glad the Lachenal my son started off on went to Co Cork so it would stay within the community of Irish musicians so it could stay doing what it has been doing : get children started on a decent instrument without them having to resort to an awful Stagi or Gremlin or one of these things. Is it a good reason, I don't know, it's a gut feeling but it was the way I felt when it went. There's no getting away from the fact there's a wide spread perception that post Riverdance instruments have become beyond the reach of parents who want their children to start playing : uillean pipes, flutes, concertinas are all examples of this. Some blame it on newcomers throwing money at instruments and hoarding them without ever becoming serious players. I have seen that in action many times. Is it right to blame one particualr nationality and tar a whole nation with the same brush over it? No. Ofcourse not. But it happens and it goes a long way explaining certain sentiments. And probably better than blaming everything on that fecking war. Now there's a can of worms for you. Edited March 13, 2006 by Peter Laban Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theodore Kloba Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Sorry but when did the war come into all of this?When groeswenphil brought it up....there's a wide spread perception that post Riverdance instruments have become beyond the reach of parents who want their children to start playingI liked Irish music more before Riverdance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Brook Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 There is a theory in the UK and Ireland, which may or may not be true - I don't know, that the interest of US based indivduals in traditional instruments has forced the price of those instrument up and so "entry" into learning those instruments is financially much harder for the people whose tradition it actually is in the first place. There is also a line used in media items about antiques, instruments, the original winnie the pooh toys, etc. that unless "something is done" to save these for the nation, they will be lost forever (to the US.....invariably). [i think the winne the pooh toys are in a library in New York which is just wierd.] I'm not sure that either of these statements is actually true, but I can see why they might be believed, and why someone might write an ad like that. I am not saying I condone it but I can see why they might do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 There is a theory in the UK and Ireland, which may or may not be true - I don't know, that the interest of US based indivduals in traditional instruments has forced the price of those instrument up and so "entry" into learning those instruments is financially much harder for the people whose tradition it actually is in the first place. I think it is actually the interst in Ireland that is pushing the prices up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Peter Laban Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I'm not sure that either of these statements is actually true, but I can see why they might be believed, and why someone might write an ad like that. I am not saying I condone it but I can see why they might do it. I have encountered instances of this, an American uilleann piper who bought three instruments on E-bay for 10-12k, which at the time (around seven years ago) was three times what the maker of these instruments was charging for them new (he has a huge waitinglist though). That sent a shockwave that upset the prices of new pipes greatly. I have seen several instances of Irish families having to make a deciscion to replace the family car OR buy one of the children a suitable (4K or more) concertina. Pipes, concertinas etc have become rare and hard to find, there's no deying that. People turning up at workshops carrying several pristien Jeffries concertinas/two sets of Wooff pipes/a bunch of flutes etc without being really able to do the isntruments justice while highly talented young players are stuck with mediocre isntrumetns is likely to cause some resentment. And it happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhomylly Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Sorry but when did the war come into all of this?When groeswenphil brought it up....there's a wide spread perception that post Riverdance instruments have become beyond the reach of parents who want their children to start playingI liked Irish music more before Riverdance. Yes, but you're cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laitch Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 If a guy doesn't want to sell me something I don't really need, that's his problem not mine, no matter what part of the world he lives in. The plus side is that a dearth in the USA of concertinas available from foreign sources has got to help our domestic makers like Morse, Tedrow, and Herrington Brothers who are working diligently to increase the concertina side of the Kloba "concertina:Big Mac ratio" over here. The data's unavailable on whether Big Macs are being used as part of the production fuel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hersh Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 I think that it's worldwide interest that's driving up prices, from Germany, Japan, Australia, Scandinavia etc. as well as the US, Ireland and the UK. With the advent of eBay and other online buying possibilities we can all bid against each other for everything now. Perhaps that's what the seller is trying to resist...but if so, I for one would have been more comfortable if he hadn't mentioned my own country in particular. Daniel There is a theory in the UK and Ireland, which may or may not be true - I don't know, that the interest of US based indivduals in traditional instruments has forced the price of those instrument up and so "entry" into learning those instruments is financially much harder for the people whose tradition it actually is in the first place. I think it is actually the interst in Ireland that is pushing the prices up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 There is a theory in the UK and Ireland, which may or may not be true - I don't know, that the interest of US based indivduals in traditional instruments has forced the price of those instrument up and so "entry" into learning those instruments is financially much harder for the people whose tradition it actually is in the first place. ... I can see why ... someone might write an ad like that. I am not saying I condone it but I can see why they might do it. But what about the Irish Americans? Are they denied the right to practise and protect their heritage simply because they now live, or were born, in the "wrong" place? A collector of instruments who does not play can be of any nationality. Samantha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 A collector of instruments who does not play can be of any nationality. And so can one who does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 There is also a line used in media items about antiques, instruments, the original winnie the pooh toys, etc. that unless "something is done" to save these for the nation, they will be lost forever (to the US.....invariably). [i think the winne the pooh toys are in a library in New York which is just wierd.] I hate to disillusion you Peter but Winnie the Pooh was Canadian. We don't have any left because the British took them all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Allert Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 Why would I want a concertina to go to the land that gave the world the Big Mac?Because it will increase the concertina-to-Big-Mac ratio. What an absolutely marvellous concept! Thank you, that made my day. Chris i've been thinking about this. while the concertina / big mac ratio will be increased in favor of concertinas in the usa, it will unfortunately be increased in favor of big macs in the exporting country. fortunately for the world as a whole, the global concertina / big mac ratio remains unchanged as a result of the transaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirge Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 There is also a line used in media items about antiques, instruments, the original winnie the pooh toys, etc. that unless "something is done" to save these for the nation, they will be lost forever (to the US.....invariably). [i think the winne the pooh toys are in a library in New York which is just wierd.] I hate to disillusion you Peter but Winnie the Pooh was Canadian. We don't have any left because the British took them all Answering the original question: No, I don't find it odd. America draws a lot of scorn in England at the moment, particularly, I think, because we British are unimpressed that our own 'leader' has allowed us to be sucked in. Reasonable people, which I trust is you and me, can see that taking it out on individuals is nonsense but, as I say, there's a lot of resentment so I'm not surprised that someone is making a 'political statement' on their sales particulars. It's not worth getting upset about. On the other hand; I was upset at the suggestion that it would be worth vapourising all the concertinas in the world if it saved every member of the human race. I'd have no trouble finding sacrificial victims if it meant keeping concertinas; probably wouldn't need to get as far as you Yanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 the world if it saved every member of the human race. I'd have no trouble finding sacrificial victims if it meant keeping concertinas; probably wouldn't need to get as far as you Yanks... Or us Canadians I hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Read Posted March 13, 2006 Share Posted March 13, 2006 (edited) edited - wrong thread Edited March 14, 2006 by Paul Read Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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