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Great Hayden Recordings By "soloduetconcertina"


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#1 Daniel Hersh

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 03:04 AM

I don't know who this is, but he's been recording some lovely music at https://www.youtube....ANH9zzSw/videos.  He writes, "I began to play this Beaumont duet concertina from The ButtonBox in 2015. I'd like to share music, ideas and feedback with duet concertina players or other musicians.  Please feel free to get in touch with me if you are interested: soloduetconcertina@gmail.com ."



#2 David Barnert

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 08:49 PM

My guess is, he’s French. https://youtu.be/4rTm9iLT4Lg?t=1m32s



#3 ceemonster

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Posted 30 January 2018 - 11:38 PM

Clicking on his YouTube moniker and going to his personal page and clicking on "About," he does give his country as France, and very kindly provides an email address for anyone wishing to discuss and exchange ideas about Hayden, and, I'm sure, concertina, period.



#4 soloduetconcertina

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 05:29 AM

Hello to everybody,

 

Thank you very much for your interest in my videos and kind comments. Yes, I'm french and living in the Paris suburb. I registered here on concertina.net 2 years ago but forgot to return after. A friend from England told me about this thread and  it's a good opportunity to come back and talk with other concertina players because we are very few to play this instrument here in France. I try to experiment different kind of musics on the hayden system and I'd like to get this system improved if more musicians could be interested in it.

 

Didie Sendra



#5 David Barnert

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Posted 24 February 2018 - 08:25 AM

...and I'd like to get this system improved if more musicians could be interested in it.


Interesting. Could you stay more about the improvements you have in mind?



#6 soloduetconcertina

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 05:16 AM

I'd like to get an hybrid instrument between hayden duet and bandonion, with double reeds to improve the sound, and with double buttons for sharp and flat notes on each hand so that it could be easier to play in any keys. But I don't know if it's a good idea until I will get this instrument because the space between the buttons will be a little larger than the hayden duet, like the bandonion.

But I listened to your videos and they sound very good. Do you have 2 different hayden duet?



#7 David Barnert

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 08:25 AM

But I listened to your videos and they sound very good. Do you have 2 different hayden duet?

 

 

Thank you. Yes. Three, if you count the iPhone ;). Xotis is played on my first concertina, a 46-button Bastari that I got in 1987. All the others except Nutting Girl are played on my main squeeze, a 46-button Dickinson/Wheatstone SN 60082, built in the mid 1980s, which I bought in 1994. Nutting Girl is played on an iPhone 6+ running the Duettina app.



#8 soloduetconcertina

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Posted 25 February 2018 - 05:09 PM

Thank you, I like the sound of your concertinas and even the Bastari sounds good I think. Are the keyboards parallels to the palm bar? I noticed that they have both metal ends. I like the sound of the Jeffries concertinas with metal ends as well. Do you think that concertinas with metal ends have a better sound? 



#9 David Barnert

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Posted 26 February 2018 - 11:52 PM

Thank you, I like the sound of your concertinas and even the Bastari sounds good I think. Are the keyboards parallels to the palm bar? I noticed that they have both metal ends. I like the sound of the Jeffries concertinas with metal ends as well. Do you think that concertinas with metal ends have a better sound?

 
Brian Hayden’s specifications for the placement of the buttons are:
 

... standard Hayden spacing and angles ie 16mm between the centres of buttons along the rows 9mm between one row and the next above - to give an equal spacing of 12mm between the nearest buttons along the diagonal. The rows to slope down at an angle of 10.5 degrees towards the thumbs. Large flat top buttons are preferable (i.e. a minimum of 6mm diameter, 7mm standard accordion bass buttons would be very good). ...

 

My instruments were built at a time when it would not have occurred to anyone to make a Hayden concertina that didn’t adhere to the specs. The ignorant anarchy of the Stagi and the parallel button rows/palm bars of the Beaumont and some of Wakker’s (I prefer not to call it “Wicki,” because Wicki’s instruments had the left hand buttons in mirror image arrangement) instruments came years later. So no, my rows of buttons are not parallel to the palm bar.

 

As far as metal or wooden ends goes, the first Hayden I ever tried was Rich Morse’s wooden-ended Dickinson/Wheatstone 46, and if I could have gotten one just like it, I would have. But I took what was available and a wooden-ended Hayden was not in the cards. I’m perfectly happy with what I have (both of them). They are not as bright as Jeffries anglos, and not as mellow as Rich’s wooden Hayden.

 

You can see a picture of my two concertinas here. Wheatstone on the left, Bastari on the right. Both with right side showing.



#10 Little John

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 04:25 AM

David - the buttons seem to slope away from the little finger. Is that right? It seems counter-intuitive.



#11 David Barnert

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Posted 27 February 2018 - 09:11 AM

David - the buttons seem to slope away from the little finger. Is that right? It seems counter-intuitive.

That is correct. Look again at Brian’s specs: “... an angle of 10.5 degrees towards the thumbs.” Intuitive or counter, it works for me. I find the parallel version awkward (see my video on the Button Box Beaumont page).

If I understand correctly, Brian’s thinking was that it facilitates using the left ring and little fingers to play octaves. I must admit I rarely if ever find myself doing that.

 

[edited to add quote marks and apostrophes that somehow disappear when I post from an iPhone.]


Edited by David Barnert, 27 February 2018 - 08:20 PM.


#12 Little John

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 10:25 AM

Thanks David. I've looked at the Button Box videos. I couldn't tell whether it was the sloping or straight version, but I did observe two things. Firstly, you didn't seem to use your little finger at all; and secondly that Aaron in the first video had to push his hand quite a way through the hand strap to reach the buttons he wanted with his little finger. As I implied in my earlier post: to me it would make sense for the keyboard to slant towards the little finger, for that very reason.

 

I must admit I find Brian's reasoning (as you report it) for the uphill slope somewhat narrow and spurious. But as has been suggested in another thread, it's best to try it before trying to re-design it. I've never yet had that opportunity with a Wicki/Hayden.



#13 David Barnert

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Posted 01 March 2018 - 11:53 AM

...Firstly, you didn't seem to use your little finger at all; and secondly that Aaron in the first video had to push his hand quite a way through the hand strap to reach the buttons he wanted with his little finger. As I implied in my earlier post: to me it would make sense for the keyboard to slant towards the little finger, for that very reason.

 

Remember, this is a Beaumont we’re playing in these videos. Rows of buttons are parallel to the hand rest, no slant. It’s true I rarely use my little finger except for notes a half step below a note I might be playing with my middle finger (on the right) or a drone (on the left). But I don’t think the slant has anything to do with it. (Again, apostrophes will have to wait until later.)

 

[edited for u-no-wat]


Edited by David Barnert, 01 March 2018 - 07:00 PM.


#14 rlgph

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 08:11 AM

Mirroring the left side (which is available on the Peacock and, i think, the Beaumont) solves some of the little finger reach problems, at least for octave and partial octave accompaniment as well as most simple chordal accompaniment. I'm sure it introduces its own problems, but i haven't the experience enough to have found them.

#15 David Barnert

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 08:29 AM

Mirroring the left side (which is available on the Peacock and, i think, the Beaumont) solves some of the little finger reach problems, at least for octave and partial octave accompaniment as well as most simple chordal accompaniment. I'm sure it introduces its own problems, but i haven't the experience enough to have found them.

You are looking for problems where, as far as I am concerned, there are none.

#16 ceemonster

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Posted 02 March 2018 - 09:57 PM

Well, there is certainly what's approaching a critical mass out there of nifty exemplars of the expressive adventures to be had on duet concertina, and quite a growing accumulation of evidence regarding the Hayden.  Specifically, it's wonderful to see increasing numbers of clips displaying such able and proficient playing.    The advent of the Morse Beaumont is bearing fruit indeed . . .



#17 soloduetconcertina

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 05:24 AM

Thank you David, I didn't know that it was you who were playing on the Beaumont's video and I didn't know that the Wicki 's system had the left hand buttons in mirror image arrangement, but even without the mirror left hand it seems that he was the first to think about this layout.

As for the parallel or not parallel keyboard I have not yet a definitive opinion about that. My first instrument was a Stagi ordered on internet but it was quite bad and I didn't play it that much. When I received the Beaumont my first impression was that some fingerings were easier with the parallel keyboard and some others became more difficult. So I thought that it was just a question of adaptation to one or another position. Now that I have more experience with the hayden keyboard I'd like to compare once again while playing the same tunes on both but I have sold my Stagi, so I can't say what I think is the best for me.

I think that the idea of Brian Hayden to make the octave playing easier was a good idea because it's true that it's a little difficult to play the octave on the same line. But as Little John said I don't understand why Brian Hayden didn't make the slant towards the little finger. But maybe he tried and he had a good reason to make it like he did?



#18 David Barnert

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Posted 04 March 2018 - 08:30 AM

... I didn't know that the Wicki 's system had the left hand buttons in mirror image arrangement ...

 

Some years ago there was a thread about the Wicki layout. I can't find it now, or I would have provided a link. Somebody had some out-of-focus photos of an original Wicki instrument and an instruction manual from 1897 (with text in both German and English). This person was unable to post the images, so I offered to. I had long since run out of allowable upload space on concertina.net, so I posted them from my dropbox account. But since then, dropbox has changed the rules and the links to all those images have died. I still have the images in my dropbox, however, although the links are different and the images can no longer be displayed directly in concertina.net posts.

 
Here is the title page of the instruction manual. Notice he spells his name "Wicky" here, and "Wicki" in other contexts.
 
Here is the right-hand layout.
 
Here is the left-hand layout.

Edited by David Barnert, 04 March 2018 - 08:35 AM.





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