Witney Considered Unfriendly

[Dan Worrall]

Just another voice in the chorus. My wife and I went to Witney in the early 1990's and found it very friendly, enjoyable and rewarding. Although from Texas, we were living in the Netherlands at the time, and flew over from there expressly for the workshop. Jenny Cox and her crew could not have been friendlier or more helpful to us outsiders. I was there to learn at the workshops, and didn't mind focusing on them. My only point of reference for concertina workshops at the time was the Willy Clancy school a few years before, and I remember working much harder at Willie Week. I enjoyed all of it; as I play both anglo and English, there was something to scratch both itches. We certainly had no real problem finding folks to eat lunch with; my wife chatted up several other couples and away we went. The food I remember was, uhh, interesting...mushy peas, some sort of questionable beef parts in a pie, and warmish beer as I remember, served in a great little pub in the village. We enjoyed the meals and our new acquaintances thoroughly, and I would myself prefer that experience to a box lunch from a caterer, though that would do too in a pinch.

 

You Britons have some real national treasures in Witney and Swaledale (the two I have by now attended); I hope you don't take them and their hard-working organizers for granted!

[Dave Townsend]

I’m sorry more people didn’t make Rainer Sussmilch more welcome when he came to Witney two years ago. He’s a really excellent player and I remember a couple of conversations with him during which I invited him to contact me any time he was planning to come to the UK (this still stands, Rainer). I’m disappointed and surprised that so many people, nearly all of whom haven’t been to Concertinas at Witney since 2000 or earlier, decided that unfriendliness was somehow a characteristic of the weekends, caused by the nature of the event.

 

Certainly in my own experience as director I have always been delighted at how friendly, helpful and self-motivated everyone is. As the venue is non-residential and doesn’t have catering facilities (you’re not suggesting I hire the school canteen???), it is planned to give people plenty of time to eat and also to socialise, whether that is in the pubs, in the school grounds, or in the school buildings, which are open most of the time for people to eat and play. This happens spontaneously at all the weekends, the only regular programmed session being in the Court Inn on Friday night, to provide a meeting place for those who arrive on Friday. Details about this and the rest of the programme are included in the information sent out to everyone who comes on the course.

 

I’m glad Peter Brook found Melodeons at Witney more to his liking, but should point out that the format, programming, timings and so forth are exactly the same for all the weekends. Surely it can’t be that melodeon players are a more friendly bunch? I can’t agree with Jim Lucas’ statement that “organizational details don't encourage -- and possibly even hinder -- friendly interaction”. The programme is designed to make plenty of free time available for informal gatherings, whether to eat or play, with long lunch breaks and a good gap between the end of the workshops and the Saturday concert. Jim & others may be surprised at the comments I get from people who want more classes with shorter breaks (please don’t start up another thread on that one!). There’s an open notice-board for anyone to put messages for get-togethers as well as contacts, other events and individual sales.

 

I’m delighted to be able to report to those who haven’t been to Witney for some years that it now has an even wider range of eating establishments within a couple of minutes‘ walk, and that at least one more pub has expressed willingness to host a music session (though this can change literally overnight, as we found one Saturday at the Fiddle weekend a couple of years ago!). I don’t understand Chris’s experience of a “lonely Saturday evening”, considering that even back in 1998 or whenever he was here, there were plenty of pubs and restaurants serving food (including the aforementioned Court Inn), and the Saturday evening concert, which is part of every weekend, to go to. On Geoff’s suggestion of finding an out-of-town pub for a session, we stopped doing this some years ago because it excluded people who didn’t have cars (Witney, unlike more rural locations, has a regular late-running bus service to & from Oxford Rail Station). On several occasions I have been told about pubs in Witney which would welcome a session; in every instance, when I have approached them for a firm commitment so that I can include it in the programme, and told them the numbers of people they might expect, they suddenly lose interest, preferring to pack the pub to standing-only capacity with heavy drinkers (disbelieve me if you will, Geoff).

 

I’m not sure that a web discussion group is the right place for a detailed analysis of all the reasons for the decisions made in the planning of Hands On Music Weekends. We are always open to suggestions, and always consider the comments made by people on the feedback forms distributed at the end of every weekend. I hope I’ll be excused for paying less attention to suggestions from those who haven’t been to any of the weekends. The possibilities of more pub sessions, catering for lunchtimes, a bar for the Saturday concert, alternative venues and alternative programming have all been explored in detail in the past, and are all under review. There’s hope on the pub sessions, good ideas on adjusting the programming, but no practical way forward at present on lunchtime catering or a Saturday evening bar (quite simply, none of the businesses wants to take it on as a business venture as we cannot guarantee take-up, and to hire them in would add astronomically to the price of the weekend). I’d also appeal to some of the correspondents to get their facts right before offering opinions to a group. Maybe if Theo Gibb came to a Hands On weekend, where attendance ranges between 80 and 100, he’d be less likely to characterise it as “a big event” and contrast it with Folkworks!

 

In conclusion, I’d say that if you want a weekend where everyone is on the same site with continual planned activities, catering and wall-to-wall sessions, you’ll have to go to a folk festival or one of the many other residential workshop events up and down the country. At a Hands On Music Weekend, you will get concentrated tuition, full detailed information in advance, a charming town to explore, and, from the organisers and, we hope, everyone else, a friendly and encouraging atmosphere.

 

Dave Townsend, Hands On Music Weekends

www.handsonmusic.org.uk

[Peter Brook]

I’m glad Peter Brook found Melodeons at Witney more to his liking, but should point out that the format, programming, timings and so forth are exactly the same for all the weekends. Surely it can’t be that melodeon players are a more friendly bunch?

 

Just to qualify my earlier post. I have enjoyed each of the weekends I have visited at Witney (2 concertina + one melodeon), and can not fault the "hard" issues, which I would class as tuition, location, class sizes, attitude and helpfulness of tutors, pre-event music, pre-event administration etc. I have come away from each weekend inspired and encouraged to soldier on, and put some of the tuition to use in developing my playing.

 

My point really was that as an Anglo player I am in a minority at Witney, with the majority being English and another minority being Duet players, there are only 15 to 20 people playing the "same" instrument as me [With approx 80 English]. Another issue was that as I play an Andy Norman box some quite rude and unhelpful comments were made by the holders of "vintage" Anglos. I did strike up several conversations with people on my first concertinas weekend but the mention of Anglo seemed to make most English players frown and shuffle away! This certainly was not true in every case and some of the people that have posted to this topic in support of Witney have been very friendly indeed at subsequent Witney's and when I have met them elsewhere.

 

It may have been my attitude or confidence but I found the atmosphere at Melodeons at Witney to be friendlier. There were no statements made about my box of choice, we are all playing D/G so there was an immediate common ground to talk to people on.

 

These really are not issues to do with the organisation of the event and I don't know how you could solve them. When I came away from my first Witney I did feel that some concertina players had seemed unfriendly.

 

Just to add a contrary point - although I have enjoyed the Saturday concert at both events, I found the concertina ones to be much more entertaining due to the wider range of music, styles of playing, and you guessed it - variety of instruments!

 

I would heartily recommend Witney to everyone - we are lucky to have it - it is a fantastic event - and I will be applying to go again later this year.

 

Perhaps I'll make myself a badge which says "I am friendly!" and see if that encourages the reticent Concertinaists!

[John Wild]

I recall going to the first Concertinas at Witney in 1991. Since then I have been to more than I have missed. I had to miss last year's event for non-musical reasons. I can only go by my own experience and say that if I had found the event unfriendly I would have stopped going long ago. Comparing it to the other main event I go to, the WCCP weekend at Kilve, I find it is difficult to decide on a preference because they each have unique characteristics. In the specific context of the subject line in this thread, I believe Kilve has the feeling of being more friendly simply because it is residential - there are lots of casual encounters going from one room to another or just finding people in the bar. Simple psychology! However, that does not make Witney unfriendly. There is just a different focus of attention.

 

At Witney, it has sometimes been hard going getting through a day of tuition, but that is what I am there for. The format of the workshops is good in my opinion - a full day with the same tutor with the afternoon building on what you have achieved in the morning.

 

I have very rarely been left alone at lunchtime. And I have usually found others attending the course staying at the same B & B, so there is something to talk about over breakfast. My main negative point (nothing to do with the event organisers) is that on Saturday, some of the restaurants still do not open till 6:00, though they must know by now that there is a good supply of customers ready to eat soon after 5:00 and needing to finish in good time to return for the evening concert.

 

- John Wild

[JimLucas]

I’m disappointed and surprised that so many people, nearly all of whom haven’t been to Concertinas at Witney since 2000 or earlier, decided that unfriendliness was somehow a characteristic of the weekends, caused by the nature of the event.

I admit that I haven't been to Witney in several years, and very few times altogether. And I haven't been staying away because of any perceived deficiency. Still, your comment prompts me to ask, have things changed radically since 2000?

 

The fact that there appears to be such agreement shouldn't be dismissed lightly, and the fact that you're surprised suggests that until now you've missed some important feedback. Whether it prompts you make any changes will depend on whether you think that such changes will provide more benefits than problems. Perhaps not.

 

It's interesting to me to observe that this thread has nearly as many individuals staunchly defending Witney as expressing reservations, but all except one of the defenders have apparently joined Concertina.net specifically for the purpose of defending Witney in this thread. Are there no Concertina.net regulars who have experienced Witney and had an unreservedly positive experience? Is there something that has kept people who love Witney from joining Concertina.net until now? I don't know.

 

Certainly in my own experience as director I have always been delighted at how friendly, helpful and self-motivated everyone is.

To quote myself in an earlier post here: "Each person ... has his own idea of what 'friendly' means."

 

Surely it can’t be that melodeon players are a more friendly bunch?

Why not? They're strange in other ways. (He says with tongue in cheek. )

 

The programme is designed to make plenty of free time available for informal gatherings, whether to eat or play, with long lunch breaks and a good gap between the end of the workshops and the Saturday concert.

It seems that not everyone feels that "plenty" accurately describes the amounts of time. Not everyone has the same standards and perceptions. In addition, I don't think it's possible for the organizers and old hands to experience the same difficulties that an uncertain newcomer does.

 

Jim & others may be surprised at the comments I get from people who want more classes with shorter breaks...

I certainly wouldn't be surprised. As I keep pointing out, each individual has their own desires, expectations, and perceptions. It's up to the Witney organizers to decide how much effort to expend on each. You can't please everybody all the time.

 

I’m not sure that a web discussion group is the right place for a detailed analysis of all the reasons for the decisions made in the planning of Hands On Music Weekends.

Probably not, unless Hands On were to start its own Forum. It's a place for airing a few thoughts, which has been done.

 

I can't speak for others, but I'm glad to have "heard" the various different perspectives.

[JimLucas]

....dick miles. p.s.perhaps unimaginative or even boring would be abetter description.

Having never met you, I wouldn't know.

[mickverrier]

I am sure I will really enjoy this site once this thread has run its course. I now know, if I did not before, that you cannot please all the people all the time. Much valuable time can be wasted considering every unlikely possibility, arguing every point and deciding that everyone but oneself is wrong. Personally I would rather be practising the concertina which, as Dave and anyone else that has heard me play would agree, is something I definitely need to do. So, I am off to play. Let's hope this thread ends now... the vast majority of people who attend Witney enjoy it and find it friendly and rewarding. I am sure they will continue so to do. Now... let's try a B flat scale.

[Nick Oliver]

It's interesting to me to observe that this thread has nearly as many individuals staunchly defending Witney as expressing reservations, but all except one of the defenders have apparently joined Concertina.net specifically for the purpose of defending Witney in this thread. Are there no Concertina.net regulars who have experienced Witney and had an unreservedly positive experience? Is there something that has kept people who love Witney from joining Concertina.net until now? I don't know.

 

Ok - I've been here a while! and yes I don't find find it unfriendly, except, as has been said before, the fact that we are let loose on the town means that there is less chance for socialising (unless you buttonhole strangers before you rush off and look for a pub)

 

and, Dick, in about the same place as the low B flat on your English there is a shift key on your keyboard! - it does make it easier to read!

[JimLucas]

....dick miles. p.s.perhaps unimaginative or even boring would be abetter description.

Having never met you, I wouldn't know.

...iam referring to witney.

To quote yourself: "my last was intended to bring some humour to the subject". I even added the big-grin smiley so there would be no doubt. Sorry you missed the point.

 

the same tutors seem to be booked very regularly. fair comment or not.

Fair comment.

 

Also fair practice.

 

I don't know of any regular school that makes a practice of replacing its staff each new term.

[Ken_Coles]

Hello folks.

 

The variety of comments here has been interesting to this reader far away. Nevertheless, I would agree with other comments that together you have now covered many points. If someone has a new point to add, that's great, but I'd like to suggest that we've hashed this one out thoroughly. Remember, it's concertinas here folks, not debate for its own sake.

 

I've never run a music weekend (heaven save me from every having to do so!), but I'll bet it is like running a concertina web site - no matter how much you tweak and adjust things and think you are following the judgment and input of many people, you hear a lot about what needs to be changed. Try to "meet in the middle" I guess is what we can hope for (sounds like a playing technique. Would that fit better on anglo, English, or duet? I'll go try it!).

 

Ken,

assistant dish washer

[Brian Peters]

Having been booked several times as a tutor at Witney, Kilve and Swaledale, I'd say that all have different merits. People at Kilve often say to me "Of course this is the really friendly one to come to", and it's hard to disagree with them, but Witney is the more intense teaching experience and I would normally expect to get through more material on a weekend there. I'd also guess that Kilve and Swaledale have a larger percentage of regulars for whom the main fun of the weekend is simply to go along and socialise or play informally. But incidentally the Friday night pub session at Witney last September was pretty damn good IMHO.

 

Like Peter Trimming in another post, I feel the tone of this thread has sometimes verged on the impolite, and it might be more constructive to realise that each of these weekends has different aims and structures, and let people choose what suits them - which seems to be what happens already anyway.

Brian

[geoffwright]

preferring to pack the pub to standing-only capacity with heavy drinkers (disbelieve me if you will, Geoff).

Looks like me relegated to the bar as usual. See you on Friday Dave.

 

Its quite amazing looking down the thread at familiar names who have signed on over the last 2 weeks mainly to comment on their Witney experiences - if nothing else, they will hopefully now benefit from the snippets of information found herein.

 

I am evidently a glutton for punishment as I am going to Witney Accordions this weekend and can guarantee I will meet some concertinaists there too.

[spindizzy]

I think these discussions have been useful ....

I feel more confident now in my playing (and hopefully my sociability!) and will look at another trip to Whitney if I can ... I rather like the Village Band w/e - but I've left that a bit late this year!

 

 

Chris

[Lester Bailey]

Surely it can’t be that melodeon players are a more friendly bunch?

May be we are just better organised, us mel.netters are very lucky that one of our members takes the time to book an evening meal on the Saturday which, within reason, is open to any one from mel.net. Mind you, you need a Steve or similar to take on the organisation.

[Chris Timson]

My final word on this topic is an explanation of the name I gave to this thread. The following quote is from the Jargon File, an important and very interesting resource for computing dinosaurs like myself.

 

considered harmful: adj.

 

[very common] Edsger W. Dijkstra's note in the March 1968 Communications of the ACM, Goto Statement Considered Harmful, fired the first salvo in the structured programming wars (text at http://www.acm.org/classics/). As it turns out, the title under which the letter appeared was actually supplied by CACM's editor, Niklaus Wirth. Amusingly, the ACM considered the resulting acrimony sufficiently harmful that it will (by policy) no longer print an article taking so assertive a position against a coding practice. (Years afterwards, a contrary view was uttered in a CACM letter called, inevitably, ‘Goto considered harmful’ considered harmful''. In the ensuing decades, a large number of both serious papers and parodies have borne titles of the form X considered Y. The structured-programming wars eventually blew over with the realization that both sides were wrong, but use of such titles has remained as a persistent minor in-joke (the ‘considered silly’ found at various places in this lexicon is related).

 

Chris

[David Cornell]

It would be a great shame for anyone to miss experiencing Concertinas at Witney due to a suspicion that it was somehow “unfriendly.”

 

For a more than a decade I’ve been a repeat visitor to events at Swaledale, Kilve and Witney. Occasionally, I’ve contributed to the duet workshops. These are all marvelous events. I’ve been to each more that once, look forward to attending again and recommend them all. As an American I have certainly been a foreigner at these necessarily English events. But I have always been made to feel welcome and found the concertina community at all these events friendly in the extreme.

 

When people in America have asked me for advice about the concertina I have always said, “Go to England, it is the land of the concertina and you will see, hear and be made aware of things you didn’t know existed.” And I try to describe the features of and differences between the concertina events at Kilve, Swaledale, Witney and the American Northeast SqueezeIn. The events are different, each has its own character.

 

I was last at Witney in 2004. That year you could hear in concert and learn from John Kirkpatrick, Alistair Anderson, Dave Townsand, Jenny Cox and a number of others. An unusual gathering of some of the best players all brought together in one place.

 

It is difficult to find a good concertina, or, if you are not in England, to even know what a good concertina sounds like. At Witney, Barleycorn Concertinas, Marcus Music and Hobgoblin all come to you. Usually, Colin and Rosalie Dipper are present. To have these opportunities available during one weekend is unique.

 

Different events offer us different benefits. Witney offers an intense, well organized schedule of concertina activities. Just hanging-out and playing the tunes we know can also be great fun. But that’s a different event. Ideally, we find value in the variety.

 

Because we look to the Internet for information, a remark in a posting can assume a universal authority that was not intended – particularly for those of us for whom distance and circumstances makes it difficult to go and see for ourselves. Suffice it to say my own experience has been most positive.

 

David Cornell

[JimLucas]

i hope ill be excusedfor paying less attantion anyway to suggestions from those who havent been.

Why should you need to be excused? If you have neither been to Witney nor plan to go, it should all be irrelevant to you.

 

But I am puzzled as to who you mean by "those who havent been". Of those who have posted in this thread, 24 said they've been to Witney, 2 (including yourself) indicated they haven't, and 4 haven't actually said (though I'm pretty sure at least one hasn't). In other words, at least 80% and possibly 90% of those posting are speaking from personal experience at Witney, so there are still plenty that -- by your above criterion -- deserve more attention, rather than "less".

[Roger Gawley]

I am a bit late here but want to say that I never found Concertinas at

Witney unfriendly although I do see how a newcomer could feel lost.

 

I had the enormous advantage of becoming secretary to the International

Concertina Association before going to Witney so there was a group that

I knew to start with. Someone coming alone for the first time would

experience things differently.

 

The problem, if there is one, is of scale. Witney is rather impersonal.

It does take a form of courage to ask the person next to you "What are

you doing for lunch?" Some people find this sort of thing easy, others

do not. Theo Gibb's ideas bear another look. Theo is one of the most

hospitable people I know. He and Pam open their house on the Sunday

before Folkworks Summer Schools just so that first timers to the Summer

School can meet each other and people who have been around longer

instead of starting cold on Monday morning.

 

Now the situation on the week and the weekend is reversed here, which

does make a difference and Marley Hill is a long way from Witney but

some kind of welcome/induction might be arranged. I have found the

sessions in The Court among the most enjoyable events I have attended

(and I do not really like sessions) but they are not the ideal place to

meet new friends.

 

Dave and Jenny have explained that Witney is firstly and teaching event

and only secondarily a social event. I agree with that: they have a good

formula. If it is not what you are looking for, then there are other

events. Dave and co do not need to change anything much. Dave is wrong

on one point: the lunchbreaks are not generous. By the time you have had

a decent lunch, it is a scramble to get back for the afternoon session.

But this is the reality of day length. Longer lunchbreaks mean earlier

starts, later finishes or shorter sessions.

 

Have I really said anything? Well there were some half-volunteers to

arrange a welcome committee. That could make a difference. It could

probably be organised through concertina.net without any formal

involvement of Dave and the team although it would be good for everyone

to know what is happening.

 

See you all at Witney, Roger