Herbert Greene's 'concordeon' Re-discovered

[John Pearse]

This 22 lb instrument has the key layout of a 72 key Maccann on the left and an 80 key on the right (minus the top 'D'). The levers in the handles select from 1 to 4 accordion reeds (three in unison and one an octave below). The construction quality is about what you would expect of a good pre-production model or one-off.

 

Inside the case is a label stating (among other things) 'Herbert Greene', 'Leading Exponent of the Concertina and Accordion', 'The Inventor of the Concordeon', and the address '65 Cobham Road, Wood Green, London N22'. There is also a patent number which the Patent Office says is not valid, and the label is signed 'Herbert Greene 1965'.

 

In the photograph of the action, the mechanism for moving the sliders which control the air to the 4 sets of reeds has been removed. The reeds are mounted exactly as in an accordion, i.e. in pairs on aluminium plates, on long tapered wooden blocks.

 

When I first got it, much of the action and most of the air supply sliders were seized up, and while I have freed off some parts, some of the sliders may require all of the action removing to sort out, which I am reluctant to do for now. In addition, many of the reeds are fairly rusty (one has a hole in it), and most of the reed valves are curled. Approx. 25% of the notes play and it sounds awful since some notes are up to a semitone out of pitch.

 

This brings me to one of my reasons for this posting, which is to get opinions on whether I should replace reeds, valves etcetera to make it playable or whether I should leave it as it is?

 

My other question is: Does anyone know anything about the previous history of this instrument and its inventor please? I bought it on ebay recently from a guy in north London who says he has owned it for 15 years and never played it, and is selling it because he is unlikely ever to learn to play it. He said 'it was bought from a music shop in north London owned by two Irish guys which is no longer there'.

 

I have spoken to Neil Wayne, who knew Herbert Greene and this instrument from when Herbert played at the Kingston-upon-Thames Concertina Convention 1969->mid 70s along with Perci Honri. Neil says that 'Herbert was a practical sort of fellow who made the Concordeon in his own workshop'. And 'Herbert also made a version with gold contacts under each button that fed into a Leslie Speaker!'. Neil has offered to swap the Concordeon for something more playable and this option will look increasingly attractive as time goes by, since I prefer to play an instrument rather than look at it, but at the moment I am not planning to sell it (I have been trying to master the Maccann for 16 months).

 

Herbert had a son, Peter, who wrote an obituary for Herbert in the ICA Magazine #282, January 1981 (thanks to Wes Williams for the lead). Peter says ICA members can contact him for details of his father's life. Does anyone know of Peter's whereabouts?

 

An observation. The address given for Herbert Greene is only a few hundred yards from the address given for Sid Ive in Chris Timson's article on the Accordeaphone on his concertina.info site. Coincidence?

 

 

And finally, my thanks to Paul Schwartz and all the contributors to this site for entertaining and enlightening me for the past year.

 

John

[John Pearse]

The reference to Perci Honri in para. 7 should be Peter Honri. John

[Dirge]

Gosh what a splendid thing! Have I understood it correctly, no chords just up to four reeds per key? Must make a racket when on full song. Difficult to resist trying to get it playing again, although you might then find out why they didn't go into production!

 

A thought; if it's a one-off, were the reeds cannibalized from a production accordion, making replacement relatively simple if you could find out the make?

[stuart estell]

When I read to the end of the first paragraph I thought this was a late April Fool wind-up! But what a splendid machine. I bet it sounds fantastically vulgar when in full health.

[Dirge]

I bet it sounds fantastically vulgar when in full health.

Couldn't have put it better. And what a lump to play.

[John Pearse]

Have I understood it correctly, no chords just up to four reeds per key?

 

That's correct, there are no chords. To be more precise about the tuning:

 

On the left side the concordeon always plays the 'low' reed, which is pitched as you would expect for a Maccann. 3 switches allow you to add any combination of the 3 unison reeds, which sound an octave higher.

 

On the right side the 3 unison reeds are at the pitch you would expect on a Maccann, with the 4th reed an octave lower. 4 swiches let you select any combination of the reeds.

[Dirge]

blimey.

[Robin Harrison]

................incredible !!!!!!! Saying " Herbert was a practical sort of fellow " does seen under-statement ! Robin

[m3838]

................incredible !!!!!!! Saying " Herbert was a practical sort of fellow " does seen under-statement ! Robin

 

So it IS a bandoneon of sorts. The difference is none. But why stop there?

In the 20s Russians built diatonic accordion some 10x10 meters, which was played by a giant iron figure. The whole thing was positioned on railroad platform and operated by a live accordion player, sitting in the chest of the Iron man. He had keyboard with keys connected to the buttons and bellows operated by a motor. It actually played! Used for parades. And now we're talking about some puni McCann concertina and are amazed at it's puni size. It's 'puni"! All I can say.

Truly the mankind now is not what it used to be.

[Dirge]

Aren't bandoneons like anglos; different notes on push and pull? I've been happily ignoring them on that principle.

 

Tell us more about the iron accordion player. I thought the Russians were too busy knocking 6 bells out of each other to do anything like that in the twenties. Sounds a bit difficult to take to the pub, mind.

[JimLucas]

Tell us more about the iron accordion player. ... Sounds a bit difficult to take to the pub, mind.

Like the mountain and Mohammed, I think the pub would come to it.

[Theo]

his brings me to one of my reasons for this posting, which is to get opinions on whether I should replace reeds, valves etcetera to make it playable or whether I should leave it as it is?

 

John

 

Since the reeds seem to be standard accordion technology then the repair approach should be to do what an accordion tech would call a 'full reed overhaul", eg take out all the reedplates, remove the valves, clean/derust the reeds, replace any reeds that are damaged or broken. Then fit new valves, and reattach the reeds with either screws or wax, the same as was done previously. Then retune the reeds. The reeds should then be ready for several more decades of use.

 

It would be possible to fit new reeds, but the sound of the instrument is likely to be different.

[m3838]

Aren't bandoneons like anglos; different notes on push and pull? I've been happily ignoring them on that principle.

 

Tell us more about the iron accordion player.

 

If you speak Russian, here is the link:

http://macross.anime.ru/bma/f1920.htm

But I would doubt authenticity of the site.

It was an inside joke.

 

I think traditional push/pull bandoneon is like an Anglo, esp. in it's core middle row 5 buttons (or 4?) on each side. If you play Anglo, you'll be able to play folk tune in several minutes, English style with accompaniment. But there are other systems, uni-sonoric, B-system, C-system. There were talks about Hayden bandoneon. I think if there were some 100+ serious enquires about Hayden Bandoneons, Harry Geuns would be producing them now.

[Stephen Chambers]

I think traditional push/pull bandoneon is like an Anglo, esp. in it's core middle row 5 buttons (or 4?) on each side. If you play Anglo, you'll be able to play folk tune in several minutes, English style with accompaniment.

You might think so, considering that they both derive from Uhlig's concept, but in fact the Anglo is more faithful to the original German concertina. The Bandoneon's core has some notes in common, that might lull you into a false sense of familiarity, but you quickly find yourself in "uncharted territory" if you try to play one, even on the straight row (been there, done that ... ).

 

Hence the Sussex concertina player Scan Tester would regularly supplement his income by selling his Bandoneon (brought back from WWI by his brother Trayton) to some poor unsuspecting soul, then buying it back for less money when they couldn't make a fist of it ...

[Peter B. Green]

I am Herbert Greene's grandson.

His son Peter mentioned in John Pearse's original posting is my father.

 

I am currently working on a website about him www.herbertgreene.net which I invite you to take a look at.

There is contact information on the site and we would love to hear from you.

 

It would be great to hear from anyone who knew my grandfather or who would like to contribute anything to his website.

 

We have quite a lot more material to add including photos and personal memoires. We also have some recordings of him playing which I plan to make into a CD.

[m3838]

I think traditional push/pull bandoneon is like an Anglo, esp. in it's core middle row 5 buttons (or 4?) on each side. If you play Anglo, you'll be able to play folk tune in several minutes, English style with accompaniment.

You might think so, considering that they both derive from Uhlig's concept, but in fact the Anglo is more faithful to the original German concertina. The Bandoneon's core has some notes in common, that might lull you into a false sense of familiarity, but you quickly find yourself in "uncharted territory" if you try to play one, even on the straight row (been there, done that ... ).

 

Hence the Sussex concertina player Scan Tester would regularly supplement his income by selling his Bandoneon (brought back from WWI by his brother Trayton) to some poor unsuspecting soul, then buying it back for less money when they couldn't make a fist of it ...

 

Hmm.

Anyone is selling some smallish bandoneon? I'd buy one. Then I can sell it to you for less money, with realization of my inability to play one re-inforced.

[paperpunchr]

Aren't bandoneons like anglos; different notes on push and pull? I've been happily ignoring them on that principle.

 

Tell us more about the iron accordion player.

 

If you speak Russian, here is the link:

http://macross.anime.ru/bma/f1920.htm

But I would doubt authenticity of the site.

It was an inside joke.

 

I think traditional push/pull bandoneon is like an Anglo, esp. in it's core middle row 5 buttons (or 4?) on each side. If you play Anglo, you'll be able to play folk tune in several minutes, English style with accompaniment. But there are other systems, uni-sonoric, B-system, C-system. There were talks about Hayden bandoneon. I think if there were some 100+ serious enquires about Hayden Bandoneons, Harry Geuns would be producing them now.

 

how Cute...it plays the Wallace and Grommit Theme! I never knew that was a Russki Melody!

[ragtimer]

Have I understood it correctly, no chords just up to four reeds per key?

 

That's correct, there are no chords. To be more precise about the tuning:

 

On the left side the concordeon always plays the 'low' reed, which is pitched as you would expect for a Maccann. 3 switches allow you to add any combination of the 3 unison reeds, which sound an octave higher.

 

On the right side the 3 unison reeds are at the pitch you would expect on a Maccann, with the 4th reed an octave lower. 4 swiches let you select any combination of the reeds.

Since nobody else mentioned it, I would guess that at least one of those unison reeds is tuned "celeste" or "wet", that is, deliberately a little out of tune to give that lovely wavering sound so dear to French sidewlk cafe accordion music. Most accordions have such a set of reeds.

 

Your instrument is fantastic! But out of tune enough that you couldn't tell which sets of reeds are tuned "wet." Any accordion repairman would be able to tune them to your liking -- different players want different degrees of "wetness."

 

I know that if I ever found a Hayden Duet version of what you have, I would spend plenty of time and $$$ to get it restored and playable!

Edited June 21, 2007 by ragtimer