C.jeffries On Ebay

[martyn]

For those of you out there with a few grand to spare a C. Jeffries 30-Key anglo has just appeared on eBay.

It was listed under accordians and after a couple of days the highest bid was only £210.

Now it has been re-listed under concertinas I think there's little chance of a bargain.

 

Such is life.

 

Martyn

[Paul Read]

Even less now!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stephen Chambers]

For those of you out there with a few grand to spare a C. Jeffries 30-Key anglo has just appeared on eBay.

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I presume that you mean this one, Item number: 7323831479 ? In which case, I must say that the fretwork looks rather odd for an ivory-buttoned Jeffries, lacking much of the detail I would expect to see, though a slightly similar (but thicker) simplified design can be seen on some later Praed Street models. Also it does not have a drone key, which would be normal on a 30-key Jeffries, and the "rake" between the rows doesn't look steep enough. Perhaps it is genuine, but I would advise caution.

 

Other makers built Anglos in a very similar style, including Jones, Crabb and Shakespeare, and I have sometimes seen "C. Jeffries Maker" stamped (long ago) into the ends of theirs, and even such obviously non-Jeffries instruments as Lachenals and Wheatstones, to deceive the unwary. It seems that some pawnbrokers would accept only Jeffries concertinas as pledges, which may go some way towards explaining this practice.

[Dave Prebble]

I tend to agree with the comments made by Steve .

 

It may be an unscientific comment but it simply does not 'look right' (and I've seen a few over the years).

 

I certainly can't recall seeing a jeffries with the name stamped between the buttons on the Left hand side of the concertina.

 

I would be very wary of bidding on this concertina unless I was in a position to give it a thorough ' once over ' first

 

Dave

 

PS

edited

I too have heard similar comments re pawnbrokers and have in my posession a set of crudely stamped ends most likely intended to deceive..... albeit many, many years ago.

Edited May 18, 2005 by Dave Prebble

[richard]

Hello Dave

 

certainly can't recall seeing a jeffries with the name stamped between the buttons on the Left hand side of the concertina.

 

Is this really such a rarety and possible sign of inauthenticity or even suspicion? I have just purchased a concertina with the "C. Jeffries Maker" on the left side end plate.

 

Richard

[des tracey]

Hello Dave

 

certainly can't recall seeing a jeffries with the name stamped between the buttons on the Left hand side of the concertina.

 

Is this really such a rarety and possible sign of inauthenticity or even suspicion? I have just purchased a concertina with the "C. Jeffries Maker" on the left side end plate.

 

Richard

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[des tracey]

Hello Dave

 

certainly can't recall seeing a jeffries with the name stamped between the buttons on the Left hand side of the concertina.

 

Is this really such a rarety and possible sign of inauthenticity or even suspicion? I have just purchased a concertina with the "C. Jeffries Maker" on the left side end plate.

 

Richard

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Sorry for the last post-- my finger got away on me.

Dave & Stephen,

 

I realise that both of you have considerable experience with concertinas, however I think that you might be scaring some folks out there who have older concertinas of the early C.Jeffries/Crabb varieties. I have an early Jeffries with C.Jeffries Maker stamped on both ends, (I'm sorry that I couldn't upload the pics, but the stampings are in quite small, neat and level type) and I believe that I have seen others similarly stamped.

I know that there is discussion surrounding early Jeffries and that they may have been made by John Crabb, in the case of the mine, it is very similar to a concertina attributed to Crabb sold to C. Algar on Ebay within the last fortnight, the greatest difference being that the Crabb had metal buttons.

As Jeffries varied in their degree of refinement, is it therefore possible to positively attribute these early anglos with any degree of certainty?

 

I don't know the date of manufacture of this concertina, but pencilled inside is the name 'H.Birchall March 15th 1886'

[Stephen Chambers]

Dave & Stephen,

 

I realise that both of you have considerable experience with concertinas, however I think that you might be scaring some folks out there who have older concertinas of the early C.Jeffries/Crabb varieties. I have an early Jeffries with C.Jeffries Maker stamped on both ends,

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Des,

 

I haven't said any such thing about the stamp being on both ends, which was not something that I suggested as being a problem, nor do I consider it a problem. However the question was addressed directly to someone else, not generally :

Hello Dave

 

I certainly can't recall seeing a jeffries with the name stamped between the buttons on the Left hand side of the concertina.

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Is this really such a rarety and possible sign of inauthenticity or even suspicion? I have just purchased a concertina with the "C. Jeffries Maker" on the left side end plate.

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So I haven't presumed to comment until they have had the opportunity to reply to it.

 

However, I do see several reasons to be concerned about this particular instrument, and would certainly want to examine it and convince myself of its quality/authenticity before bidding, which I see is now at £2,550.

 

There are fake Jeffries in circulation, some of which are owned by people who believe them to be genuine.

[des tracey]

Dave & Stephen,

 

I realise that both of you have considerable experience with concertinas, however I think that you might be scaring some folks out there who have older concertinas of the early C.Jeffries/Crabb varieties. I have an early Jeffries with C.Jeffries Maker stamped on both ends,

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Des,

 

I haven't said any such thing about the stamp being on both ends, which was not something that I suggested as being a problem, nor do I consider it a problem. However the question was addressed directly to someone else, not generally :

Hello Dave

 

I certainly can't recall seeing a jeffries with the name stamped between the buttons on the Left hand side of the concertina.

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Is this really such a rarety and possible sign of inauthenticity or even suspicion? I have just purchased a concertina with the "C. Jeffries Maker" on the left side end plate.

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So I haven't presumed to comment until they have had the opportunity to reply to it.

 

However, I do see several reasons to be concerned about this particular instrument, and would certainly want to examine it and convince myself of its quality/authenticity before bidding, which I see is now at £2,550.

 

There are fake Jeffries in circulation, some of which are owned by people who believe them to be genuine.

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Stephen,

 

Nor did I suggest that YOU had a problem with the stamping on both ends.

 

My point is that the history of the early Jeffries seems to be somewhat clouded and I know that there are many owners out there who would probably like their instruments to be correctly identified. I wonder is this something which can be done authoritatively?

As Jeffries seems to have had a less formal manufacturing beginning than Wheatstone or Lachenal and given the lack of Serial numbers, records or even signatures on instruments, will we always wonder or are there defining attributes or qualities which serve to identify these early instruments from their contemporaries?

[Stephen Chambers]

Stephen,

 

Nor did I suggest that YOU had a problem with the stamping on both ends.

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Des,

 

I think that many people would read you as doing so.

 

Whatever ...

 

My point is that the history of the early Jeffries seems to be somewhat clouded and I know that there are many owners out there who would probably like their instruments to be correctly identified. I wonder is this something which can be done authoritatively?

As Jeffries seems to have had a less formal manufacturing beginning than Wheatstone or Lachenal and given the lack of Serial numbers, records or even signatures on instruments, will we always wonder or are there defining attributes or qualities which serve to identify these early instruments from their contemporaries?

That's an extremely broad question, but I would say that yes, there is a defining attribute : Does it have Jeffries reeds ?

 

If it does, and the instrument was sold by Jeffries as being made by them, then I would consider it a Jeffries.

 

Which I think is rather implicit in Geoff Crabb's response on looking at Geoff Wright's Anglo :

My c/g metal ended anglo was recently overhauled by Colin Dipper and was described and stamped as a "jeffries". I showed it to Geoff Crabb who said, yes, the ends were "very probably" made by Crabb but on playing it, said the insides "definitely" came from Jeffries.

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[des tracey]

Stephen,

 

Nor did I suggest that YOU had a problem with the stamping on both ends.

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Des,

 

I think that many people would read you as doing so.

 

Whatever ...

 

My point is that the history of the early Jeffries seems to be somewhat clouded and I know that there are many owners out there who would probably like their instruments to be correctly identified. I wonder is this something which can be done authoritatively?

As Jeffries seems to have had a less formal manufacturing beginning than Wheatstone or Lachenal and given the lack of Serial numbers, records or even signatures on instruments, will we always wonder or are there defining attributes or qualities which serve to identify these early instruments from their contemporaries?

That's an extremely broad question, but I would say that yes, there is a defining attribute : Does it have Jeffries reeds ?

 

If it does, and the instrument was sold by Jeffries as being made by them, then I would consider it a Jeffries.

 

Which I think is rather implicit in Geoff Crabb's response on looking at Geoff Wright's Anglo :

My c/g metal ended anglo was recently overhauled by Colin Dipper and was described and stamped as a "jeffries". I showed it to Geoff Crabb who said, yes, the ends were "very probably" made by Crabb but on playing it, said the insides "definitely" came from Jeffries.

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Stephen,

 

Apologies for my clumsy posting, no offense intended. I was grappling with uploading a couple of pictures of the concertina ends (which I didn't succeed in doing). However,

one of the reasons that I continue to check in on contertina.net is to read some of the more authoritative postings from among others, yourself and Paul Groff.

I realise that the question is broad, but how does one know if a concertina has Jeffries reeds?, or for that matter if it was sold by Jeffries?

[Stephen Chambers]

I realise that the question is broad, but how does one know if a concertina has Jeffries reeds?

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I would say that the first test, like Geoff Crabb playing Geoff Wright's concertina, would be to play it. The second would be to open it up and take a look at them, the reed shoes are quite distinctive to the practiced eye (like the one that says it is a Stradivarius, or not).

 

... or for that matter if it was sold by Jeffries?

Is it signed, or stamped Jeffries ?

[richard]

Hello

 

If any one could post a photo or photos of a Jeffries reed shoe, and even others(perhaps a Crabb manufactured) to compare it to, that would be very interesting and helpful.

 

Should I be hesitant to suggest that a concertina that is presumed to be of 100%Jeffries bioligical heritage but is rather of mixed (Crabb and whomever), whether it is accidentally or deliberatly misrepresented can be judged on its inherent qualities which will always be evident. And many of these "mixed or of unknown heritage" instruments have unique,distincitve and wonderful qualities.

 

Thanks,

 

Richard

Edited May 24, 2005 by richard

[Stephen Chambers]

Should I be hesitant to suggest that a concertina that is presumed to be  of  100%Jeffries bioligical heritage but is rather of mixed (Crabb and whomever), whether it is accidentally or deliberatly misrepresented can be judged on its inherent qualities ...

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Richard,

 

It has been common-practice amongst concertina (and accordion etc.) makers to "buy-in" some of the components, but it doesn't mean that a Jeffries with ends supplied by Crabb's is any less authentic.

 

Many concertinas have not been made completely "in-house".

 

What I have been referring to are instruments that are 100% by other makers, which someone has spuriously stamped "Jeffries" with intent to deceive.

 

 

And many of these "mixed or of unknown heritage" instruments have unique,distincitve and wonderful qualities.

Yes indeed, but nobody should be expected to pay an outrageous "Jeffries" price for them, just because they have been "faked" to look like one.

[Mr. Bellows]

Sold for $6,720.00

 

Great Googley Moogely! The world has gone mad!

Edited May 24, 2005 by Mr. Bellows

[Stephen Chambers]

Perhaps it is genuine, but I would advise caution.

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Well I hope it is genuine, as somebody just paid £3,675.00 for it.

 

You could get an authenticated and restored one off a reputable dealer for less !

Edited May 24, 2005 by Stephen Chambers

[Stephen Chambers]

I would say that the first test, like Geoff Crabb playing Geoff Wright's concertina, would be to play it. The second would be to open it up and take a look at them, the reed shoes are quite distinctive to the practiced eye (like the one that says it is a Stradivarius, or not).

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If any one could post a photo or photos of a Jeffries reed shoe, and even others(perhaps a Crabb manufactured) to compare it to, that would be very interesting and helpful.

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I doubt if most people could tell the difference from a photo, and makers did change their tooling over the years (they do wear out !), but you get to know them if you are working on them all the time.

 

And I forgot to mention a third test, though it would only be apparent to a tuner : The steel in Jeffries reeds is so hard that it takes the edge off a tuning file faster than any other maker's.

[Chris Timson]

Said concertina sold for 3675 pounds. Bloomin' heck (words carefully chosen for a public forum)! That's an awful lot of dosh for what looks to me at best as a box that needs a lot of TLC and at worst might not even be a Jeffries!

 

I'm stunned!

 

Chris