Chris Drinkwater Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 (edited) I wonder if a tune, even when played by its composer, need be considered to be to be the 'definitive' version. Every player has an opportunity to improvise a little bit of their own personality into a tune if they so wish, and there is of course plenty of evidence to suggest that they do so. I quite agree, Rod. For me, the dots of a tune are just a starting point and one is free to interpret the tune (or song) how he or she likes, given how a person 'hears' the tune for themselves and their level of musical ability and musical understanding. Also, of course, different instruments are bound to produce different results. I wouldn't attempt to replicate the sound of a fiddle on a concertina and vice versa. And, for the more adventurous among you, below is the ABC for a harmony part for it, apparently composed by an American student called Ellen Thomas. it could be used to work out a melody/harmony version for the EC for example (Wolf?). X: 1 T:Da Slockit Light 2nd Part C:Ellen Thomas L:1/8 M:4/4 K:D FE|"D"A,3D F2A2|dcAG "Bm7"F2D2|"G"G2B2 "D"F2A2|"Em"GFED "A7"A,4| "D"A,3D F2A2|dcAG F2D2|"Em"G,4 "A7"A,3C|"D"[A,6D6]:| g|"D"d2A2 "A7"c3E|"Em"G4 "A7"FEDC|"D"D4 "E7"^G3E|"A7"C2A,2 B,2C2| "D"D4 "A7"A4|"Em"G6GF|"G"G2B,2 "A7"A,B,A,C|"D"DA,B,G, A,4| "D"D4 "A7"C4|"Em"B,6GF|"G"G2B2 "D"F2A2|"Em"GFED "A7"A,4| "D"A,3D F2A2|"D+"^A4 "Bm7"F2D2|"Em"G,4 "A7"A,3C|"D"[A,7D7]| Chris Edited May 2, 2015 by Chris Drinkwater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 Here's a first try. Not satisfied with the chording, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Here's a first try. Not satisfied with the chording, This has a lovely feel to it IMO, and as to the chording I'm not sure about the availabilities of your Anglo. What sounds fitting to my ears might more easily be discussed in relation to my own (first) take which I'm hoping to record and provide this evening. Just one point in advance: The EC is suggesting an inverted Dmaj chord on the fifth (A) when returning to it at the end of the first full measure. Throw in a third (F#), and you get a pleasing fuller sound where just the open fifth (which I love otherwise) might be too colourless... In at least one of the ABCs is noted D/F# at some points; D/A is another option sometimes, and I sort of of combine the both of them here... Hope you don't mind the maybe all-too-basic (and possibly not Anglo-relevant) explanations. Best wishes - Wolf Edited May 4, 2015 by blue eyed sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dunk Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) And, for the more adventurous among you, below is the ABC for a harmony part for it, apparently composed by an American student called Ellen Thomas. it could be used to work out a melody/harmony version for the EC for example (Wolf?). X: 1 T:Da Slockit Light 2nd Part C:Ellen Thomas L:1/8 M:4/4 K:D FE|"D"A,3D F2A2|dcAG "Bm7"F2D2|"G"G2B2 "D"F2A2|"Em"GFED "A7"A,4| "D"A,3D F2A2|dcAG F2D2|"Em"G,4 "A7"A,3C|"D"[A,6D6]:| g|"D"d2A2 "A7"c3E|"Em"G4 "A7"FEDC|"D"D4 "E7"^G3E|"A7"C2A,2 B,2C2| "D"D4 "A7"A4|"Em"G6GF|"G"G2B,2 "A7"A,B,A,C|"D"DA,B,G, A,4| "D"D4 "A7"C4|"Em"B,6GF|"G"G2B2 "D"F2A2|"Em"GFED "A7"A,4| "D"A,3D F2A2|"D+"^A4 "Bm7"F2D2|"Em"G,4 "A7"A,3C|"D"[A,7D7]| Chris Interesting, here's a combined two part version using Ellen Thomas's harmony for the second part. X:1 T:Da Slockit Light (Duet) R:Air C:Tom Anderson C:Harmony by Ellen Thomas M:4/4 L:1/8 Q:1/4=80 K:D V:1 |:FE|D3F A2d2|fedc d2A2|B2d2 A2d2|BAGF EGFE| D3F A2d2|fedc d2A2|B2G2 AGFE|D4- D2:| g2|f2a2 e3c|d3e dcBA|f2a2 e2^g2|a4- a2=g2| f2a2 e3c|d3e dcBA|B2G2 AGFE|D4- D3g| f2a2 e3c|d3e dcBA|B2d2 A2d2|BAGF EGFE| D3F A2d2|fedc d2A2|B2G2 AGFE|D4- D2|] V:2 |:FE|A,3D F2A2|dcAG F2D2|G2B2 F2A2|GFED A,4| A,3D F2A2|dcAG F2D2|G,4 A,3C|[A,6D6]:| g2|d2A2 c3E|G4 FEDC|D4 ^G3E|C2A,2 B,2C2| D4 A4|G6GF|G2B,2 A,B,A,C|DA,B,G, A,4| D4 C4|B,6GF|G2B2 F2A2|GFED A,4| A,3D F2A2|^A4 F2D2|G,4 A,3C|[A,6D6]|] PDF sheet music and an mp3 of the midi output are here. I set the harmony voice an octave lower so here we have a treble and a baritone together. Anyone care to add a bass line? Edited to add: I removed the chords as they clashed and don't sound right anyway with multi-voice music. Edited May 4, 2015 by Pete Dunk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 ...And, for the more adventurous among you, below is the ABC for a harmony part for it, apparently composed by an American student called Ellen Thomas. it could be used to work out a melody/harmony version for the EC for example (Wolf?). Hi Chris, thank you for the information and suggestion! I guess I will look upon the setting (and the other one as posted by Pete) after hopefully having recorded my first version later this day... Best wishes - Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 Here's a first try. Not satisfied with the chording, Hope you don't mind the maybe all-too-basic (and possibly not Anglo-relevant) explanations. Best wishes - Wolf OF course I don't mind - feedback is what the TOTM is all about. The frustrating thing about this tune for me is that on ANglo, I can really only play it in one key, and there are some pretty big limitations to the available chords. With most tunes, I look for the key that offers the chording I want, but with Slockit, I'm pretty much confined to D on the G/D. I know very little music theory and my grasp of terminology is weak; I go mostly by feel and by trial and error. In the case of Slockit, I can't translate what I hear in my head to the keyboard, and i'm pretty sure it's because I just don't have the chords. But it's a great tune and I plan to keep trying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Here's a first try. Not satisfied with the chording, Hope you don't mind the maybe all-too-basic (and possibly not Anglo-relevant) explanations. Best wishes - Wolf OF course I don't mind - feedback is what the TOTM is all about. The frustrating thing about this tune for me is that on ANglo, I can really only play it in one key, and there are some pretty big limitations to the available chords. With most tunes, I look for the key that offers the chording I want, but with Slockit, I'm pretty much confined to D on the G/D. I know very little music theory and my grasp of terminology is weak; I go mostly by feel and by trial and error. In the case of Slockit, I can't translate what I hear in my head to the keyboard, and i'm pretty sure it's because I just don't have the chords. The funny thing with this tune is that the only weak point of all things to my ears is the modulating to another key (Amaj) at the end of the third (full) measure of the B section). I really had some trial & error in order to reduce the effect of the secondary dominant (which is more or less made inevitable through that G# note in the melody) here... To put it another way, the strength of the tune would then be in enjoying the chords and inversions of the one key (of Dmaf) to the fullest, rather than sort of loading the whole thing up with tension. But maybe I haven't got you right here - of course I can well imagine how frustrating the lack of desired chords will be as I've been there myself in my melodeon period... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) Well, here is - as announced - my first take, still too snappy, but this is where I start from, weill put further work into it! Da Slockit Light Will have to further explain my approach later, except for summing up what has already been said (and adding some details) not until (complete) bar 2 define the measure (4/4 as opposed to 3/4) trying to let bar 3 breathe keeping the A section fluid, including some ornamentations have a decending bass run in bars 5 + 6 (incomplete in bars 1 + 2) couldn't prevent myself from playing one note staccato in bars 17 (13) and 24 (20), then sus4 decrease the tension in bar 19 short counterpoint in bar 20 vary the harmonies in bars 21 + 22 as well 29 + 30 against the version with the suspended 4 in bars 17 and 24 playing the Emin chord in bar 28 with the (minor) third (G) in the bass, as differing from bars (4 and 12) The entire arrangement has been worked out with an ABC file with added notation of harmonies (leed sheet style) Any comments and questions more than welcome... Best wishes - Wolf Edited to add: Albeit still liking this first take due to its sort of straightforward approach I nevertheless point the sympathetic listener to my newer "WIP" posting further down the road... Edited May 11, 2015 by blue eyed sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 Well, here is - as announced - my first take, still too snappy, but this is where I start from, weill put further work into it! Da Slockit Light Will have to further explain my approach later, except for summing up what has already been said (and adding some details) not until (complete) bar 2 define the measure (4/4 as opposed to 3/4) trying to let bar 3 breathe keeping the A section fluid, including some ornamentations have a decending bass run in bars 5 + 6 (incomplete in bars 1 + 2) couldn't prevent myself from playing one note staccato in bars 17 (13) and 24 (20), then sus4 decrease the tension in bar 19 short counterpoint in bar 20 vary the harmonies in bars 21 + 22 as well 29 + 30 against the version with the suspended 4 in bars 17 and 24 playing the Emin chord in bar 28 with the (minor) third (G) in the bass, as differing from bars (4 and 12) The entire arrangement has been worked out with an ABC file with added notation of harmonies (leed sheet style) Any comments and questions more than welcome... Best wishes - Wolf VEry nice. The descending bass line is what was in my head when I started playing this tune, but on Anglo I lacked the notes (a push-pull problem). I"m not sure I'd say it's too 'snappy.' I think I erred on the side of being too slow and lamentish. While I've always thought of this as a very slow tune, there's more than one way to play it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Thank you for the encouragement, Jim! The EC is leading quite naturally to these lines and progressions IMO, whereas some extra gravity may be prompted by relatively frequent direction changes as needed with the small instrument I'm playing, but I guess I'll be able to overcome this too at some point... I'm very glad you like my take (subject to further working on it) as it is however... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cboody Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I wonder if a tune, even when played by its composer, need be considered to be to be the 'definitive' version. Every player has an opportunity to improvise a little bit of their own personality into a tune if they so wish, and there is of course plenty of evidence to suggest that they do so. This is a tough question for me. Years of paper training and serious academic study prejudice me into thinking that the composer's intent ishould be seen as the "right way." And years of conducting have made me try to be a servant of the composer. Still even in the classical music world, and perhaps even more so in the traditional music world, interpretation is extremely important. I think I come down here: in performing music, as opposed to playing for dancing, tempo, rubato, and all the other "tricks" of performance should inform the performance and should support the performer's thorough understanding of the work. You don't get that understanding from the dots. You get it from your understanding of the piece, the context of composition, and your understanding of the musical tradition from which it comes. Once you understand that and can do the work as you think it was intended then, particularly in trad. music, almost anything is fair game. Case in point. Eleanor of Usen by Phil Cunningham. They get inside the piece, and play it much differently than on the Transatlantic Session recording where Phil is on piano. You can make a reel out of this tune. But I hope you won't.. Same with Da Slockit Light.. Stepping off soap box..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I can understand how a conductor of a larger group of musicians must feel somewhat restricted and obliged to closely follow a composers original score. Soloists, small groups and particularly Jazz musicians however are of course in a rather different world and can get away with all the fun of creating spontaneous improvisations, sharing in, and perhaps, ( but by no means always ! ) even enhancing an original composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I believe I don't agree with either of you, Chuck and Rod... My understanding is based on the persistent validity of the fundamental distinction between the so-called classicl music (from at least the baroque ages to the romantic traditions and beyond) and folk music. The notorious "folk process" should not be looked upon as just an excuse for being inaccurate or ignorant, lazy or incapable. A living (which includes revived, at times) tradition lives from variation, be it unnoticedly or deliberately. Of course understanding, knowledge and awareness can preserve from spoiling a tune, but for me it's not about "intentions" even of a known composer, if it's a folk tune. OTOH there have been periods of really alienating wide areas of "classical" music, particularly from the baroque ages (playing Vivaldi with a huge, nearly "Wagnerian" symphony orchestra a.s.f.; however, I even love some Stokowski arrangements!), and the movement of historically informed performance practice has been a relevation here! However, even in the field of "classical" music we (or at least I) love listening to different interpretations (which might even reveal things somewhere hidden in the music so far), but the legit spectrum will be much smaller here compared to the folk tradition. Since all the dance movements from J. S. Bach and his fellow composers are in a way rooted in (or at least communicating with) folk music, it is very well possible to take them back to the dancing or barn floor and ignore rules and part settings (what I did with the famous Minuet BWV App. 114, by Petzold), and with the tunes from the "Dahlhoff" collection (which are already closer to folk music anyways) as well. As long as I don't have to stick to a part setting or fully written score, I very much prefer and enjoy playing sort of freely, which might be regarded as sort of reflected in having (and varying) leed sheets... That's about all for now... Best wishes - Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 Coming back to my own take of this present TOTM and having had it developed, I started more or less with the dots which I always immediately augement with harmonies at any time (and here, too), trying out what might sound fitting, interesting, lovely or whatever. The chord notations in some ABC-files are no more then suggestions then which will likely concur with what I'm "hearing" and playing to a certain extent. In a second step (when I don't feel really comfortable with what I've been doing so far) I come back to the file and experiment with chord notations and bass lines, in order to have conclusive progressions and maybe interesting variations (rather within the tune than from one run through to the other). In the present case, I worked for a time on the modulation to A maj (as already mentioned), until I found a sparse chording (including G maj as a first step, which takes the feel back to the tonic and might thus be more or less unexpected) which I could go with. In general, my approach was to keep the whole tune in motion, however slow it down to some extent to preserve the lamenting character, which I intended to ground on resp. centre in bar 3 (and 11), played like two deep sighs... (which I missed in my first spontanous playing). The last step was sort of organize the changing of bellows' direction, in order not to run out of air amidst a phrase. I'm not observing these notations all the time, but mostly I guess. Most of these changes come sort of naturally anyways... Feel free to ask if interested in more details, or in case I haven't made one (or all) of my points clearly enough... Best wishes - Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted May 5, 2015 Author Share Posted May 5, 2015 (edited) Playing around with the tune a little. On the G/D Anglo, the only alternative to D is to play it in G - with most of the melody in the A part on the left side. Still looking for the chording I want. Sorta cool, but I don't think it really works. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/68325595/C.net%20Tune%20of%20the%20Month/Slocket_low_Besser.MP3 Played in G on a Jeffries 30 button G/D Anglo. Edited May 5, 2015 by Jim Besser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Collicutt Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think there no choice but D for me, a tune I've played in sessions but never looked at music till now. https://soundcloud.com/gcolli/da-slockit-light-by-tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 I think there no choice but D for me, a tune I've played in sessions but never looked at music till now. https://soundcloud.com/gcolli/da-slockit-light-by-tom Hey Graham, sort of a Morris version - no lamenting any more here, but even this version is perfectly legit IMO as it reveals the catchy side of the melody... And I might thank you for demonstrating my keeping sort of a (golden?) medium with my own take... Best wishes - Wolf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Michel Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 A forum member asked me to do a solo version, without the distraction of overdubbed instruments. Happy to oblige: http://youtu.be/V_JgWBhmVuM Bob Michel Near Philly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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