Wolf Molkentin Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I am at a loss as to what your final comment refers to. Well, I particularly disliked the "extra beat" (or extended measure, following the ABC file) near the end of the B part (the "hiccup", as Jody has put it) right from the beginning. Thus my very first decision had been to keep and allocate all the notes (without changing any of them) just within a regular 4/4 measure (feeling confirmed by your statement then). My understanding of the "folk process" includes the legitimacy of such modifications (in order to personalize a tune, and even learn to like it after all, as has been the case here). Apart from limited spreading of ones version, may fellow and future folkies decide whether to adopt them - or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 You chaps are making very heavy weather of all this. Music making should be relaxing, fun, and above all creative. If you are attracted sufficiently to the basic framework of an existing tune and wish to pursue it further can't you forget the wretched dots on paper and all the baggage that comes with them and create your own version, to your own satisfaction, and let it go at that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Wooff Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 I agree with you Rod. Wolf, might I suggest a ' less is more' approach ? Perhaps you just do not have enough fingers to ' pull off' the very ambitious setting you have devised ? Again there is a sense that you do not have enough AIR to carry the amount of chord work that you are making. I am working on a similar arrangement for the EC but have ignored the Score, to a large extent, and just tried to absorb the feeling of the piece as played by Mr.Cutting. I also have ,perhaps, more than twice as much Wind in the chest of the Baritone Treble, as well as an octave more at the bottom end to harmonize... but still I am trying not to dig myself into a corner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellowbelle Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 You chaps are making very heavy weather of all this. Music making should beDe relaxing, fun, and above all creative. If you are attracted sufficiently to the basic framework of an existing tune and wish to pursue it further can't you forget the wretched dots on paper and all the baggage that comes with them and create your own version, to your own satisfaction, and let it go at that ? in one way I do agree, but there are a few exceptions.... I have an idea that I think I will suggest but in a different thread. and I may wait until I'm back at the computer not just with my phone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 Another version, inspired by Jody's contribution. In learning this tune, I was having a very hard time making a tune that is so obviously a melodeon tune into something special on the concertina. Jody's use of the sonorous basses seemed like the solution, so I've been working on it, albeit with 8 fewer buttons than he has to play with. Still need to find ways to smooth out the playing, and to do more with the B part. And I keep fighting the tendency to speed up the Bs. A work in progress, shall we say. Played on a 30 button Jeffries G/D Anglo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 (edited) As always - thank you for the critique and suggestions Geoff (and commenting on the arrangement, David), much appreciated! But... you know, I'm kind of stubborn and keep trying to play what I intend(ed) to, thereby avoiding the downside impressions as reported. So here is the next step, just recorded after a nightly 3/4 of an hour rehearsal in front of "the red light". On the one hand I'm still disappointed with the outcome as yet, on the other hand it might serve as some further proof of having enough fingers and even enough (if rationed) air... And Rod, I'm not in complete agreement with your statement. Music making should be, and is fun and all! But working on the score here and there, checking out (even weird) chords and discussing the process might be belong to the fun - and does, as far as I'm concerned. Edited August 20, 2013 by blue eyed sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rod Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Of course you are right. Fun comes in all shapes and sizes. So do opinions ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Barnert Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I am at a loss as to what your final comment refers to. Well, I particularly disliked the "extra beat" (or extended measure, following the ABC file) near the end of the B part (the "hiccup", as Jody has put it) right from the beginning. Thus my very first decision had been to keep and allocate all the notes (without changing any of them) just within a regular 4/4 measure (feeling confirmed by your statement then). I still wasn't sure what you were saying here. Then: So here is the next step, just recorded after a nightly 3/4 of an hour rehearsal in front of "the red light". So it sounds like, as per my suggestion, you tacked the "hiccup" onto the previous measure, so that the last 4 bars are in strict duple time. Is that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted August 22, 2013 Share Posted August 22, 2013 I am at a loss as to what your final comment refers to. Well, I particularly disliked the "extra beat" (or extended measure, following the ABC file) near the end of the B part (the "hiccup", as Jody has put it) right from the beginning. Thus my very first decision had been to keep and allocate all the notes (without changing any of them) just within a regular 4/4 measure (feeling confirmed by your statement then). I still wasn't sure what you were saying here. Then: So here is the next step, just recorded after a nightly 3/4 of an hour rehearsal in front of "the red light". So it sounds like, as per my suggestion, you tacked the "hiccup" onto the previous measure, so that the last 4 bars are in strict duple time. Is that right? It is not meant to be exactly like that, David. My solution had not been guided by "hearing" that four 8th notes as end part of an extended measure but rather by the simple idea of allocating all notes (shortened as required then) within just two strict measures. Thus these two measures would read as follows: X:1 T:Abbess, The T:B-Part, Measures 12+13 M:4/4 L:1/8 K:G "Am"c) (3B/c/d/"C"e f "D"!fermata!d3/2 (cBA |"Bm"G) F"C7/G"E (c "D/A"A2-"Am"A) (F | In other words: Two notes tacked to the previous measure, two notes remaining in the next one... That's what I had written down (aside from the C7-chord, which came later) prior to reading your first remark on the "hiccup", which confirmed me in terms of "disliking" and made me curious whether you would approve of this sort of dogmatic solution... - and now I'm curious as well if you will hear these notes from my playing after all, once I submitted the dots... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dunk Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 It turns out that I did do the abc transcription of the Abbess and posted it here. Earlier in the same the same thread a link was posted to this sheet music of the tune, this was the source for my transcription. The only reason for me not having a copy is that I must have done it on my now expired laptop and not copied the file across to the main PC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bellowbelle Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) http://snd.sc/13OwulW Soundcloud link -- A second take, but on the baritone (the other was on the treble). I don't think I used ANY sus4 this time... I used a cassette recorder, outdoors, so it's... rough. Edited August 24, 2013 by bellowbelle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatFace Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 (edited) Well, I haven't been playing much recently, but I happened to have my concertina next to me with a recorder in the box so thought I'd "have a go" as it's too lovely a tune not to. It's mostly a make-it-up-as-you-go-along arrangement... which is my only excuse I can think of for the ending! http://rowlhouse.co.uk/concertina/music/TheAbbess.mp3 (On tenor treble English, as always). Edited August 24, 2013 by RatFace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dunk Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 which is my only excuse I can think of for the ending! Am I wrong in thinking that many hymns ended with a similar riff? That would be numerous decades ago of course, long before your time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Kruskal Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 (edited) Well, I haven't been playing much recently, but I happened to have my concertina next to me with a recorder in the box so thought I'd "have a go" as it's too lovely a tune not to. It's mostly a make-it-up-as-you-go-along arrangement... which is my only excuse I can think of for the ending! http://rowlhouse.co.uk/concertina/music/TheAbbess.mp3 (On tenor treble English, as always). Oh... that was delightful to hear. Bravo! The ending seemed just fine to me! I loved your brisk tempo and inventive arrangement. So free and carefree and tossed off. The bass run up in your first "B"... very nice. Still, I have to quibble with the recording or perhaps it's the arrangement or merely the mic placement. There is so little melody there in the mix, that sometimes I wonder where it has got to!?!? Of course, this is a problem with concertinas in general. As the accompaniment gets richer and denser, the melody recedes. The lack of independent dynamics between musical lines requires clever solutions. We all work against that in our playing, I'm sure, whether we think about it or not. RatFace, in your last little A sort of coda, you are letting the melody come through much more and I was glad to hear that. Despite my little criticisim, I sure do admire your playing here, just beautiful. Edited August 29, 2013 by Jody Kruskal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RatFace Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Still, I have to quibble with the recording or perhaps it's the arrangement or merely the mic placement. There is so little melody there in the mix, that sometimes I wonder where it has got to!?!? Yes - you're right! It's a combination of a few things. Firstly, I made the recording with much less care than normal! I just used my little tascam sitting on my computer keyboard, with a wall immediately to the left of me and a stack of drawers on the right, so this will not have helped the balance (I think the bass notes tend to get reflected more than the treble). Secondly, I knew the tune to listen to, but only played it through a couple of times before recording, so didn't take much care over the arrangement. There are a few things I normally try to do to help with the bass/treble balance - in particular in the first time through. My theory is that if the tune is presented reasonably clearly the first time, then you can afford to use more accompaniment etc subsequent times because the listener has had some guidance about what to listen for. There's a few ways of making the accompaniment less intrusive, too. Maybe next time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jody Kruskal Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 There are a few things I normally try to do to help with the bass/treble balance - There's a few ways of making the accompaniment less intrusive... Dear Ratty, If you get the chance, I for one would be interested in your strategies for bringing out the melody in a complex concertina arrangement. I have my own thoughts on the matter and would love to hear your thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Dunk Posted August 29, 2013 Share Posted August 29, 2013 Dear Ratty, Jody, meet Danny Chapman a delightful and thoughtful musician, rather like yourself. Sift through his stuff, it's a bit like Aladdin's cave! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Besser Posted August 31, 2013 Author Share Posted August 31, 2013 Well, I haven't been playing much recently, but I happened to have my concertina next to me with a recorder in the box so thought I'd "have a go" as it's too lovely a tune not to. It's mostly a make-it-up-as-you-go-along arrangement... which is my only excuse I can think of for the ending! http://rowlhouse.co.uk/concertina/music/TheAbbess.mp3 (On tenor treble English, as always). Glad you had a go at it; very nice version. So many different interpretations of this great tune; I'm loving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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