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Design Flaw(S) For Traditional "super" Case For Concertina?

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#19 Chris Ghent

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 09:39 PM

Meant to say, I use Hardigg iM2075 cases too but I have never found a way to satisfactorily block them. Gluing wooden blocks to the sides is fragile and the material is too thin to screw through. I could use some sort of foam covered in cloth but I am unconvinced as to the longevity of foam materials, some turn to slime and others to dust in a few decades. A concertina is as secure as its case in the long term.

Funnily, just as I was typing this I thought of a possible solution. The issue with wooden blocks is, the compound shape of the corner of the iM2075 makes it difficult to glue a cloth covered wooden block with enough surface area. It is difficult to produce the wood with the compound shape of the case but one technolology which could easily create it would be 3D printing. I could cast the shape of the corners with plaster or wax, use a probe to digitise it and then get a machine to gloop them out. Food for thought.

#20 Chris Ghent

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Posted 21 April 2017 - 11:09 PM

Marcus Music has given me the dimensions of their anglo concertina (to get in July) and I will be in Morocco this weekend to request a leather worker to make a case for it.  Looking at many great designs & great input from all, I added ... 2cm+ space on all sides (for padding & shrinkage), can be carried by hand or shoulder, sits on its side (not ends), opens from ends, etc., etc.
 
DESIGN FLAWS?  Ugly?   :)  ... before I try to get a bag like this made?  Any ideas greatly appreciated.

Canary Bird, this is probably too late because you will be there by now but if you do this, don't put the shoulder strap attachment point in the centre of the ends as your diagram shows, because the bag will "roll" on the strap. Put it closer to the side you want to be the "top".

#21 Mike Franch

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Posted 22 April 2017 - 03:32 PM

Members of this list who enjoy old motor vehicles of various kinds as well as old concertinas, and driving and playing them, keep popping up on this listerv. I find it a nice combination!

They (and others of us, who only tinker with concertinas) might enjoy Matthew B. Crawford's book, Shopcraft as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work.

Crawford has a Ph.D. from the University of Chicago and other academic credentials, but his main business seems to be restoring vintage motorcycles at his repair shop in Richmond, Va. He has many interesting observations, such as the insight it takes to get into the mind of the original designer of a mechanism. Applicable to all sorts of things, not just motorcycles and concertinas!

Mike

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#22 aybee

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 02:08 AM

Members of this list who enjoy old motor vehicles of various kinds as well as old concertinas, and driving and playing them, keep popping up on this listerv. I find it a nice combination!

They (and others of us, who only tinker with concertinas) might enjoy Matthew B. Crawford's book, Shopcraft as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work.

Crawford has a Ph.D. from the University of Chicago and other academic credentials, but his main business seems to be restoring vintage motorcycles at his repair shop in Richmond, Va. He has many interesting observations, such as the insight it takes to get into the mind of the original designer of a mechanism. Applicable to all sorts of things, not just motorcycles and concertinas!

Mike

Thanks for the tip Mike, it looks like a good read and a extension of the "An Inquiry into Values" started in Robert Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? This was an important book in my formative years and probably contributed to my choosing a manual profession.

 

Adrian



#23 Chris Ghent

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 04:44 AM

Finding a balance between Classical and Romantic has been an important part of my life too...

#24 d.elliott

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Posted 23 April 2017 - 02:54 PM

 

Personally I think that the hex box shape is a problem in itself,

 

- by its nature, unless clam opening, it wants to stand on its end, as in your sketch number 1 lower view,

- unless it is tight fitting the instrument tends to be too sloppy in the case, if its a tight fir you end up dragging out the concertina from one end and can snag the bellows aggravating the situation.

- you need end to end compression to keep the bellows properly compressed, I never feel that this is properly achieved, especially with the buckle closure that you are showing.

 

Sorry, but a nice idea

 

Dave

 

Dave, could I ask you why the bellows need to be so well compressed? You use the word 'properly' twice which seems to suggest they should be clamped vice-like in their case? While I can see a concertina shouldn't be allowed to flop about, I am just wondering why it should be necessary to do more than say, in a Jeffries style jug case? Having had to 'break in' new bellows in the past that were too eager to spring back to their closed position, I don't see why I would encourage them to 'prefer' their closed state and preserve this elasticity, which can make it very tiring to play?

I've said it here before - the jug cases are great if you have several concertinas to lug around - I generally stuff mine into a rucksack and the minimal extra thickness around the concertinas means they very are easy to pack. Obviously if I were sending them, I'd pack them differently, but for ease of transport, and light weight, I don't think they can be bettered. Oh and yes, I always store mine 'handle up' - concertina horizontal :-)

 

Adrian

 

 

Adrian,

 

the reason is that if bellows are not stored with the bellows firmly held fully closed then many of them start to creep and will naturally settle in a part or almost closed condition. This means that, in play, the bellows resistance increases the closer you get to the bellows shut condition. This can affect phrasing and dynamics under certain circumstances. The square concertina boxes were developed with bellows compression blocks to anchor the bellows shut. There is a difference between clamped shut and restrained, I am not advocating a vice like clamp, just a firm restraint. Some of the hex cases actually also had a feature incorporated in the bottom of the case, and the lid, to try and get the same restraining effect when the box was locked. 

 

As to your own treatment of your own concertina, it is your instrument, you have clearly made up your mind anyway, we were asked for advice so here it is. take it or leave it. 

 

Dave



#25 aybee

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 05:01 PM

the reason is that if bellows are not stored with the bellows firmly held fully closed then many of them start to creep and will naturally settle in a part or almost closed condition. This means that, in play, the bellows resistance increases the closer you get to the bellows shut condition. This can affect phrasing and dynamics under certain circumstances. The square concertina boxes were developed with bellows compression blocks to anchor the bellows shut. There is a difference between clamped shut and restrained, I am not advocating a vice like clamp, just a firm restraint. Some of the hex cases actually also had a feature incorporated in the bottom of the case, and the lid, to try and get the same restraining effect when the box was locked. 

 

As to your own treatment of your own concertina, it is your instrument, you have clearly made up your mind anyway, we were asked for advice so here it is. take it or leave it. 

 

Dave

 

Dave,

Thanks for your reply and I am sorry if my question sounded a bit provocative - it was certainly not my intention and I was simply asking for a clarification, which you and others have been kind enough to give. Since I have only ever experienced the problems as you describe when the bellows were reluctant to fully open, your insistence on firmly holding them shut seemed counter-productive to this. In addition, the only time I have had bellows replaced, I remember the instrument was very tiring to play until I'd "worked off" their springiness, but perhaps the maker used different techniques.
I have read in some posts here that bellows could be considered as 'concertina consumables' and I suppose over the entire life of a concertina, they are the parts that would be replaced most frequently. If I have to replace mine 10 years earlier because my cases don't hold them firmly enough, I personally feel that is a price worth paying for the convenience of having light, thin cases that are easy to transport, but I appreciate this will not be a solution for everyone.

Adrian



#26 jdms

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 08:42 PM

You never said what the bike is...

I actually did tell you in a similar conversation a few years back--I lucked into a Vincent Rapide (previously my father's; he traded a year-old Triumph for it in 1963.  He still has his Black Prince, though).  Now if I could just figure out what the bike was I saw today on a local street.  30's thumper but with two (over-and-under) fishtail mufflers on the right side, chrome tank, looks to be in "survivor" condition...a Velocette, maybe.



#27 Chris Ghent

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:06 PM

You never said what the bike is...

I actually did tell you in a similar conversation a few years back--I lucked into a Vincent Rapide (previously my father's; he traded a year-old Triumph for it in 1963.  He still has his Black Prince, though).  Now if I could just figure out what the bike was I saw today on a local street.  30's thumper but with two (over-and-under) fishtail mufflers on the right side, chrome tank, looks to be in "survivor" condition...a Velocette, maybe.
Sorry, the stellar bike names are easier to remember than the initials. You have had a class motorcycling experience, the equivalent of owning a Wheatstone Linota with Class C reeds and a best Dipper. Did I get away with bending this bike thread to concertinas? Maybe the bike was a middle thirties Ariel Red Hunter, a local here had one of the twin port 500s and it had two high pipes on one side.

#28 Chris Ghent

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Posted 24 April 2017 - 10:09 PM

Thanks for the tip Mike, it looks like a good read and a extension of the "An Inquiry into Values" started in Robert Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance? This was an important book in my formative years and probably contributed to my choosing a manual profession.
Adrian

A timely mention of Pirsig, Adrian, he died today...

#29 Canary Bird

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Posted Yesterday, 12:35 AM

Thanks for all your input on the case ... motorcycles ... I'm a classic Vespa guy.

 

Long story made short, the souk workers said it was too short of time (Friday afternoon until Sunday evening) as the Souk in Agadir closes on Monday.  :(  One was quoting me around 400Euros to do and even if I bargained him down to 100 Euros  ... and of course we were talking Dirham currency in the discussion if someone though we were talking Euros :) ... I was thinking that I could do it myself for less in wood and with leather accents.  ... that will now be my plan.  I looked in the souk for bags that could be tweaked as case in some way and didn't come successful.

 

Thanks soo much for your help as I will be able to make a better case now.



#30 jdms

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Posted Yesterday, 09:27 AM

 Maybe the bike was a middle thirties Ariel Red Hunter, a local here had one of the twin port 500s and it had two high pipes on one side.

 

A Linota or a Dipper would be nice...maybe some day, if I get some more liquidity in the finances (not holding my breath).  I think your Red Hunter theory is most likely correct--an image search turns up some pretty similar-looking bikes, down to a fair bit of chroming on the tanks.






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