concertina or button accordion?

[RickPick]

I'm a novice fiddler (2 years in...), and am considering learning either the concertina or the button accordion. I'm not planning to become a maestro -- I'm already starting way too late at 66! But is one of these two instruments significantly more easy to learn than the other? Obviously, it is easier to get started with a penny whistle than it is with a fiddle, even though one instrument is not superior to the other. On the other hand, one might say a guitar and banjo are more equivalent in the basic skill level required to start amusing oneself. What's your opinion on the relative ease of learning concertina or button accordion, please? Thanks. P.S. Apologies for cross-posting this on another concertina forum. I'm just looking for some informed opinions.

[David Colpitts]

Well...as a nearly raw rookie in both instruments (6 months button accordion, and 9 weeks Anglo concertina) perhaps my experience will pertain to your own situation. Basically, the Anglo 'tina and the button accordion are "harmonica-like" in that push and pull of the same button produce two adjacent notes. In that regard, they are similar. However, the "scales" available at either hand on the Anglo 'tina, for my purposes, make producing full, rich sounds more intuitive on that instrument than on the accordion. On the other hand, the latter has "fixed" chords and basses, if that is easier for you. Although I thought the button accordion was "it" for me, when I tried the concertina, I realized how much more I liked the whole "gestalt" of it. I now play the concertina everyday for about a half-hour to an hour, while I only play the button accordion when I feel guilty about having spent the money on it, or want to play in its keys (which happen to be A/D.)

 

Anyway, I am not quite your age, but think either instrument accessible enough to warrant some time spent to amuse yourself and your friends. I am getting lots more out of the concertina, but like them both. Bravo to you for starting!

 

Regards,

 

David

[Dirge]

Don't forget how incredibly portable a concertina is either.

[Mikefule]

Surely as a musican the most important question is what sound do you want to make? A sound like a button accordion or a sound like an Anglo concertina? Or a sound like an English concertina? Or a duet?

 

It is unwise to choose on the bass of "easy to play." Some instruments are easy to knock a tune out of, but they are all equally diffiuclt to play well. And a cheap one of either will be harder to play.

 

For just busking tunes in the major key without getting too involved, the melodeon is the obvious choice.

[malcolmbebb]

I don't think either is significantly easier. I am learning both. It helps if you know what kind of music you want to play, and in what company - if any at all.

 

I would suggest that you try to listen to both, maybe have a look around on Youtube. Try some, if you can. But there are so many shades of personal preference, it's difficult to offer any real guidance. And there is a number of choices within each.

 

A good accordion will tend to cost less than a good concertina, but you can spend a lot of money on either. A concertina is, by and large, lighter and more portable. A button accordion is generally louder. There are lots of other generalisations one could make. Both are supported by internet forums.

 

But to return to your question - I would not say that either is easier to learn. You will need to make your choice on other grounds.

[RickPick]

Thanks for the feedback. It is all most helpful to someone who plays neither instrument. I had assumed I would be playing Irish music on whatever instrument I took up, largely because I've become familiar with both instruments through the process of learning Irish fiddling. From what I can tell, I might rather quickly lose interest in playing chords, if that possibility is what make the button accordion easier to learn. But I think Mikefule makes a good point: I need to listen more to the different music this family of instruments makes. Of course, the most sensible thing would be to devote ALL my musical time (which is most of my waking hours these days!) to the fiddle, but what's the fun in being sensible?!

[Mikefule]

It is not compulsory to use the chord buttons all the time on a button accordion. Many players just use the right hand most of the time, especially for tunes that wander out of the main major keys available on the box.

 

Skilled players are able to do some very interesting things with the basses, moving a long way from the "oom pah" of the new player.

 

On the Anglo, there are more chord options because you can break the chords up, play bass runs and part chords, and make the music very interesting to listen to and challenging to play.

 

However, for Irish music, I think most people stick mainly to the melody line most of the time, and leave the chords to someone else.

 

Being a lighter instrument with a "purer" tone (arising from the single reeds) you may find that the concertina has more expression - it can be made to sound very fiddle-like.

[Sarah Swett]

All I can say is that after spending five years learning to play the fiddle (an adult beginner), the poor stringed instrument now spends most of its life in its case because six months ago I picked up an English Concertina and have scarcely put it down since.

 

I chose English over Anglo after much deliberation (none to try locally so it was cerebral/concertina.net/youtube deliberation rather than hands on), because I didn't think I could live without all the sharps and flats I was used to on the fiddle. It's still a bit odd not having adjacent notes, well, adjacent, and my two hands don't always cooperate with one another, but golly do I love this way of making music. I might also say that the concertina is MUCH easier on my body than the fiddle so I am able to play for longer periods of time. It is also wonderfully obliging, ready to hop onto my lap and play a tune at a moment's notice.

 

This is my first post, so I'll take a moment to say many, many thanks to all of you loquacious concertinists (is that a word --and if not, what is the proper term for a concertina player?). I learn from you every time I log on.

 

Sarah

[david_boveri]

i think that you should try to play both if one doesn't speak to you very much. everybody is different. some people find they gravitate to one more than the other. i definitely saw the anglo concertina and not only did i know it was for me, but it came to me very naturally. for the life of me i just can't figure out the accordion even with tabs and guidance, but night one on the concertina i was playing full tunes.

 

i am probably alone in this, but i honestly find the pipes (!) easier than the accordion. i only get to play once every year or two at most, but i can squeeze out tunes on the pipes no problem, even though i have never had my own pipes and never even borrowed a set for a day. put an accordion in my hands and i am just crippled. now, i'm not saying that anyone would want to listen to me play the pipes, but as long as it doesn't have a set of regs on them (i can't balance them on my leg, ) i could play a very recognizable version of a simple jig or an air. after an hour on the accordion you'd be lucky to get a whole phrase out of me.

 

in actuality i would say that many people find the concertina more difficult than the pipes. something about using your two hands for melody that have totally different layouts really confuses a lot of people. for me i think that i just get lost on the accordion. without being strapped in i have no idea where to put my fingers, never mind what notes to play. come to think of it, when you play the pipes you are strapped in as well! maybe that's why i like them so much, .

[RickPick]

Sarah! There's no way I'm learning EITHER the concertina or the button accordion if it means the fiddle stays home! NO WAY! I'm already somewhat cautious about deflecting some practice time that could have been spent playing the fiddle. From what I've read here so far, I'm inclining toward the concertina (I had to say that -- this is the concertina forum....), even though I've heard Martin O'Connor squeeze some pretty fine tunes out of a button accordion. I'm still pretty amazed at the cost of a good concertina though. Thanks again for all these thoughts and sharing your experience.

[Geoff Wooff]

 

 

i am probably alone in this, but i honestly find the pipes (!) easier than the accordion. i only get to play once every year or two at most, but i can squeeze out tunes on the pipes no problem, even though i have never had my own pipes and never even borrowed a set for a day. put an accordion in my hands and i am just crippled. now, i'm not saying that anyone would want to listen to me play the pipes, but as long as it doesn't have a set of regs on them (i can't balance them on my leg, ) i could play a very recognizable version of a simple jig or an air. after an hour on the accordion you'd be lucky to get a whole phrase out of me.

 

in actuality i would say that many people find the concertina more difficult than the pipes. something about using your two hands for melody that have totally different layouts really confuses a lot of people. for me i think that i just get lost on the accordion. without being strapped in i have no idea where to put my fingers, never mind what notes to play. come to think of it, when you play the pipes you are strapped in as well! maybe that's why i like them so much, .

 

 

 

David,

you are not alone in finding the pipes easier to play than the Accordion. When I took up the pipes I found them easier than the Concertina and very natural to play. The hand positions on a woodwind instrument... and then coming from the flute or whistle.. all make for a good start on the pipes.

 

I have tried Button accordions... and especially the Semitone Diatonic boxes (C#/D and B/C) used for ITM and I cannot get a handle on them either.

[Geoff Wooff]

An inherant problem with all this is the comparison between a 'Genre Specific' and any 'Non Genre Specific' instruments. The type of button accordion that RickPick is thinking of, as used in ITM, the C#/D or B/C, is Genre Specific as are the Uilleann Pipes. I'm not saying that one cannot play other types of music on these instruments but that they ought not to be the first choice for diving off into a drop of Paganini, for instance. The Fiddle, being a Violin, is a universal, non genre specific instrument as is the Concertina in any of its keyboard forms.

 

To my way of thinking this makes the Concertina a far better choice. Never mind the cost, it is an investment !

[harpomatic]

At age 66, you are wise enough to be allowed some generalizations, without the fear of getting into an endless "pros" and "cons" debates with specializing gentle men, probably half your age, hoping to enlighten you out of your "un-wisdom"... Allow me, at my age of 38 to understand that your simple question is "simple" not because you are simple-minded (due to my natural respect for people who've been around significantly longer than me), and give you a simplified, generalized answer. Minus the age, I'm coming from the same place, having played violin, anglo concertina and various versions of button accordions. Harmonica in my background also is a factor. Anglo concertina, apart from being "iconic" in Irish trad, is going to give you results much faster, and ultimately with greater variety of possible expression. No built in chords means you can build endlessly on your own, when you desire, have both hands independent, thus all kinds of rich "duet-like" options, etc. To a degree, same is true about english, but hands are not as fully independent, to generalize it a bit. To put it simply, you'll progress faster on the concertina. An english concertina was originally envisioned as a violin substitute, to generalize a bit more... Both really have the same sound, just different note layout, both systems are quite intuitive, just in very different ways... Both fully chromatic...Now, the best part: HAVE NO FEAR OF CHINESE MADE CONCERTINAS!!!

 

P.S. for a harmonica player, you are half way there before you even start on Anglo, as it is only a matter of training your fingers - the entire concept/system/notelayout/sound/free reed behavior is already internalized. Just in case you play one already.

Edited November 22, 2012 by harpomatic

[Don Taylor]

Harpomatic said:

 

"Now, the best part: HAVE NO FEAR OF CHINESE MADE CONCERTINAS!!!"

 

Ok, you are going to have to explain/justify this statement as it seems to be an absolute article of faith on this board that Chinese concertinas are rubbish and must not be counternanced - especially for a beginner.

 

I don't know myself as I have never laid my hands one, but it would be nice to be able to buy a "cheap as chips" tina just to try something different.

[harpomatic]

Bufflehead, I'll answer your question with, perhaps a perfect analogy, if you can tell me what other instrument you do play. Nowadays, you have a chinese-made equivalent to most any thing manufactured out there. May be you can get the essence of my answer already - most of it has to do with class/income, as quality has something to do with it, but progressively less and less. A $100 guitar is surely NOT going to have a Gibson brand logo attached to it, but in most cases will give you a perfectly decent entryway into the whole experience of playing an instrument, so much so that if indeed you outgrow it and are ready to buy your Gibson, you will not regret spending that $100 whatsoever... Most likely, that first guitar was made in china, too. It is the same with concertinas, same with everything else... Not many people will spend thousands to just try and see if they like an instrument. The ones that will, belong to a class that will NEVER, never ever even consider buying anything chinese-made, so it is pointless to seek their approval. just make sure you get a 30 button model - 20 button is not chromatic. You may discover that concertina is or is not for you, but you will thank China for offering you a chance to discover that in the cheapest way possible.

PS. to put it simply - BB King still sounds like BB King on a $100 guitar, and I still sound like me on a $10,000 Gibson...

 

Harpomatic said:

 

"Now, the best part: HAVE NO FEAR OF CHINESE MADE CONCERTINAS!!!"

 

Ok, you are going to have to explain/justify this statement as it seems to be an absolute article of faith on this board that Chinese concertinas are rubbish and must not be counternanced - especially for a beginner.

 

I don't know myself as I have never laid my hands one, but it would be nice to be able to buy a "cheap as chips" tina just to try something different.

Edited November 23, 2012 by harpomatic

[Anglo-Irishman]

I had assumed I would be playing Irish music on whatever instrument I took up, largely because I've become familiar with both instruments through the process of learning Irish fiddling. From what I can tell, I might rather quickly lose interest in playing chords, if that possibility is what make the button accordion easier to learn. ...

Of course, the most sensible thing would be to devote ALL my musical time (which is most of my waking hours these days!) to the fiddle, but what's the fun in being sensible?!

 

Rick,

Being the same age as yourself, I think I may be permitted a few generalisations ...

 

Unlike you, I started making music about 60 years ago. I didn't have all the dithering about what instrument to start with, because we had some in the house already: a fiddle, a mandolin, an autoharp, a mouth organ (AKA harmonica) and a piano. So I started with the mandolin, because it was so easy to just play tunes on with small hands. Later, I discovered that the mouth organ was easy to get tunes out of as well, with the bonus of nice, fat harmonies at no extra effort. When I was perhaps 10, I was allowed to try the precious fiddle, which was no problem, because I'd learnt the fingering on the mandolin. About that time, my father took in a stray 5-string banjo, and I taught myself that with the help of a simple tutor. At about 18, I longed for a concertina - I'd heard one as a small child, but we hadn't got one at home - and got a cheap German 20-button Anglo.

 

At this point I went out into the Wide World (to university) and got into folk music. Me being an Irishman in Ireland, most of it was Irish folk. For a while, I would take my fiddle or banjo alternately to parties, and used my concertina in Youth Church services. But me being a singer first and foremost, the banjo gradually got the upper hand (if it was good enough for Luke Kelly and Tommy Makem, it was good enough for me!)

 

This is the crucial point in the narrative: If I'd wanted to play Irish dance music, I'd have concentrated on the fiddle at this point. But Irish ballads were my thing, so I developed my banjo accompaniment skills. I kept up the concertina for song accompaniment and sailors' tunes.

Since then, I've taken up the whistles, the guitar, the autoharp and latterly the Crane Duet concertina (about one new instrument per decade ). With my group, I play an occasional jig on the Anglo (I now have a 30-button), but if I had to do more of that kind of thing, I'd reactivate the fiddle. Irish dance music is essentially fiddle music, and is easiest to play convincingly on the fiddle, where the grace-notes come naturally.

 

This is not intended to turn you off the concertina - you can do a lot with it that you can't with the fiddle, especially in the accompaniment area, but also in the area of instrumental solo pieces. Just saying that if I'd wanted to play jigs, reels and hornpipes, having learned the basics of the fiddle, I'd have concentrated on it.

 

Hope this helps,

Cheers,

John

[RickPick]

The most convincing reason to take up the concertina is that so many passionate, helpful, and articulate people obviously play it! These posts have offered valuable insight from so many perspectives, and I genuinely appreciate all the efforts folks have made to persuade/enlighten/encourage me. I admit to shying away from spending more to "try" a concertina than I've spent on upgrading my fiddle to something that will out-last me, so hearing a positive word or two about entry-level possibilities is also welcomed. I first learned fiddle on an inexpensive but decently-set-up Chinese violin. When I knew we were a match, I bought a much better older German fiddle that is still way better than I'll ever "require." The Chinese fiddle then became my travel fiddle, but as my ear (and my bowing...)has improved, I might not be as happy with it on my next extended trip. Still,I've ZERO regrets for having started with it, even though I probably couldn't get $200 for it on craigslist or kijiji or the like. I'm sure really good concertinas are as expensive as they are for good reason, but the opportunity to try something decent at the entry level is clearly attractive to a guy who is even ambivalent about giving up that fiddle time! Thanks for all your help!

[Mike Franch]

Rent one. Try it. Rent the other one. Try it. Decide after sufficient experience. You might discover that one really speaks to you, or that one is much easier to learn. If both do, congratulations. It's a nice problem to have. Experience, rather than more advice, is probably what you need at this point.