Inside The Bastari 67-keyhayden Duet "concertoneon"

[David Barnert]

Here are fingering diagrams for the scales that Brian described above (I hope I've got this right, I'm hundreds of miles from the nearest Hayden concertina):

 

i   -
 i   m   r   -   l
-   -   m   r   -   -

_______________________

i   -
 -   -   m   -   -   -
-   -   m   r   l   -
 -   -   -   r   l   -

_______________________

l   -
-   i   m   -   r
 -   i   m   -   -
-   -   -   -   -   -   l

[Chris Timson]

With the possible exception of Dippers I think Wheatstones are in a class of their own.]

No "possible" about it. Here's a photo of a Dipper-made Hayden:-

 

 

Note it has 10 sides. When I took this photo the owner said to me, "this is undounbtedly the finest concertina ever made, ever made". I've never forgotten it.

 

Chris

[ragtimer]

For Harmonic Minor scales I use Just 3 fingerings to play all Harmonic scales on the 67 Square Concertina.

Thanks, Brian.

 

Have you or anyone else figured out how to play the ascending Melodic Minor scale, with its five consecutive whole steps, legato (smoothly, without jumping or sliding a finger)?

 

Ironically, it is possible in the "unsupported" keys that require the 3rd of the scale to be fingered as a sharp on the pinky side of the button field.

--Mike K.

[ragtimer]

With the possible exception of Dippers I think Wheatstones are in a class of their own.]

No "possible" about it. Here's a photo of a Dipper-made Hayden:-

 

<snip>

 

Note it has 10 sides. When I took this photo the owner said to me, "this is undounbtedly the finest concertina ever made, ever made". I've never forgotten it.

 

Chris

And of course the finest ever made is a Hayden Duet!

 

How many keys is that? Looks close to 70 or more.

--Mike K.

[Chris Timson]

And of course the finest ever made is a Hayden Duet!

 

How many keys is that? Looks close to 70 or more.

Unfortunately I didn't count the keys at the time, and it was about 10 years ago that I took the photo.

 

I think you have to allow for understandable owner's pride in that statement about the finest concertina ever made. My claim for my own Dipper is much more modest. I merely consider it to be the finest anglo concertina ever made for song acccompaniment.

 

Chris

[David Barnert]

Have you or anyone else figured out how to play the ascending Melodic Minor scale, with its five consecutive whole steps, legato (smoothly, without jumping or sliding a finger)?

I have seen Rich Morse use his left thumb, not for this purpose, but for playing chords in keys where you need notes on the right end of the 46-key layout to fill in for missing notes on the left end (eg., D# for Eb). I don't know if it could be done smoothly enough for a moving melodic line.

 

Pianists have no aversion to moving the hand to a new position without breking the legato. I just use one finger for two consecutive notes (I usually do it by sliding the right ring finger or the left middle finger). Sometimes I am tempted to use my nose.

[JimLucas]

I have seen Rich Morse use his left thumb, not for this purpose, but for playing chords in keys where you need notes on the right end of the 46-key layout to fill in for missing notes on the left end (eg., D# for Eb). I don't know if it could be done smoothly enough for a moving melodic line.

 

... Sometimes I am tempted to use my nose.

Your left nose, David, or your right nose?

[Chris Drinkwater]

I have seen Rich Morse use his left thumb, not for this purpose, but for playing chords in keys where you need notes on the right end of the 46-key layout to fill in for missing notes on the left end (eg., D# for Eb). I don't know if it could be done smoothly enough for a moving melodic line.

 

... Sometimes I am tempted to use my nose.

Your left nose, David, or your right nose?

 

 

Well, maybe, as a technique, it's not to be sniffed at! Who knows?

 

Chris

[David Barnert]

... Sometimes I am tempted to use my nose.

Your left nose, David, or your right nose?

 

 

The one in

the middle.

[inventor]

Regards Dave Barnets diagrams.

1st diagram is correct, 2nd & 3rd are I regret wrong.

2nd diagram upper Middle finger should be one space to the left, 3rd diagram left at top left should be right over to the right diagonally left above the lower little finger.

Looked at another, think of 3 fingers being used twice, with the 4th 5th & 6th notes of the scale falling diagonally left (i.e. a musical Fourth) above the 1st 2nd & 3rd notes of the scale. The 7th note of the scale (the Maveric note, which is always shown in notation with an accidental in front of it) is played by the spare finger. As this finger is only used for one out of seven notes, the maveric finger can also be moved around to several adjacent buttons and used to do semitone slides up to other notes as well.

I've tryed to get diagrams similar to Barnetts purely by typing; however they come out incorrectly spaced.

 

The Dipper instrument that is illustrated has 65 buttons, I have also seen 2 others by "Dipper" one with the same number of buttons but with raised ends and another with flat ends but with 3 extra buttons, I have also seen photographs of one of Steve Dickensons 82 key Hayden, but have never seen it in the flesh. I wouldn't like to say which of these 4 instruments is the finest ever made but I would certainly count it to be one of these 4, but then I'm predudiced. And p.s. the 3 "Dippers" were mostly made by Robin Scard, who works alongside Colin Dipper, and is almost unknown as one of the finest concertina makers of our day.

Inventor.

[David Barnert]

Regards Dave Barnets diagrams.

1st diagram is correct, 2nd & 3rd are I regret wrong.

Thank you Brian. I've got it now. I would like to thing that if I had my concertina at hand (as I do now) I would have caught the mistakes. Here is the (I hope) corrected version:

 

1) Prefered easiest fingering: e.g. A Harmonic-minor :

i   -
 i   m   r   -   l
-   -   m   r   -   -

_______________________

2) For Sharpest keys e.g. F# Harmonic minor:

i   -
 -   m   -   -   -   -
-   -   m   r   l   -
 -   -   -   r   l   -

_______________________

3) For the other Keys, e.g. Ab Harmonic Minor:

i   m   -   r   -   -   -
 i   m   -   -   l   -
-   -   -   -   -   l   -

I've tryed to get diagrams similar to Barnetts purely by typing; however they come out incorrectly spaced.

The trick is to wrap the text in "code" tags, which forces concertina.net to display it as evenly spaced (like a typewriter). If you look just above the window where you input text, you'll see a bunch of icons. If you hover the cursor over each one, a little flag pops up telling you what it does. The one all the way to the right says "wrap in code tags." If you click it, it adds {code}{/code} to the end of your message (except that instead of { and } it's square brackets [ and ], which I didn't use here because the system would try to interpret them). Type (or paste) the critical text between those two tags like this:

 

{code}critically spaced text{/code}

 

Then, when you "add reply" or "preview post" you get this:

critically spaced text

For the Hayden layout notation above, I put three spaces between each button location, so it repeats every four spaces. Each successive row is offset by two.

[ragtimer]

(Please excuse the mis-typed Title; don't know how to edit that yet)

I wish I could fix that title -- so a search on "Hayden" or "Bandoneon" would find it.

Here are some photos of the insides of this rare (only 12 made) instrument.

Actually, I was told that The Button Box back in the 1980s sold a shipment of either 10 or 20 of them, which, added to the 11 or 12 that Brian Hayden dealt in the UK, would make something like 22 or 32 made. Still few enough to shout "!!! RARE !!!" on eBay if I ever sell it

 

FWIW, my Bastari 67 is now at The Button Box awaiting reed set and tuning, which Brian had advised me it would probably need. My only contact wiht it at the moment is my avatar.

 

I wonder how many are still being played?

And why I'm replying to myself --Mike K.

[gwhlevy]

David,

 

How can I print your fingering chart above?

 

Grant

 

 

Regards Dave Barnets diagrams.

1st diagram is correct, 2nd & 3rd are I regret wrong.

Thank you Brian. I've got it now. I would like to thing that if I had my concertina at hand (as I do now) I would have caught the mistakes. Here is the (I hope) corrected version:

 

1) Prefered easiest fingering: e.g. A Harmonic-minor :

i   -
 i   m   r   -   l
-   -   m   r   -   -

_______________________

2) For Sharpest keys e.g. F# Harmonic minor:

i   -
 -   m   -   -   -   -
-   -   m   r   l   -
 -   -   -   r   l   -

_______________________

3) For the other Keys, e.g. Ab Harmonic Minor:

i   m   -   r   -   -   -
 i   m   -   -   l   -
-   -   -   -   -   l   -

I've tryed to get diagrams similar to Barnetts purely by typing; however they come out incorrectly spaced.

The trick is to wrap the text in "code" tags, which forces concertina.net to display it as evenly spaced (like a typewriter). If you look just above the window where you input text, you'll see a bunch of icons. If you hover the cursor over each one, a little flag pops up telling you what it does. The one all the way to the right says "wrap in code tags." If you click it, it adds {code}{/code} to the end of your message (except that instead of { and } it's square brackets [ and ], which I didn't use here because the system would try to interpret them). Type (or paste) the critical text between those two tags like this:

 

{code}critically spaced text{/code}

 

Then, when you "add reply" or "preview post" you get this:

critically spaced text

For the Hayden layout notation above, I put three spaces between each button location, so it repeats every four spaces. Each successive row is offset by two.

[David Barnert]

David,

 

How can I print your fingering chart above?

 

Grant

I have sent Grant a pdf. If anyone else wants it, let me know.

[Spectacled Warbler]

I wonder how many are still being played?

 

Mine is played regularly but nowhere near often enough as studying gets in the way, roll on summer holidays. C.net's Theo Gibb tweaked the weaker upper octave, addressed the problem of some of those reeds not playing and it's been more responsive with a more balanced sound since, a great improvement.

 

I really enjoy playing it, much prefer the button spacing to the Stagi, maybe I've smaller fingers than you, and those rich doublereeded chords just keep on making me smile.

 

Joy

[ragtimer]

I wonder how many are still being played?

 

Mine is played regularly but nowhere near often enough as studying gets in the way, roll on summer holidays. C.net's Theo Gibb tweaked the weaker upper octave, addressed the problem of some of those reeds not playing and it's been more responsive with a more balanced sound since, a great improvement.

So nice to "meet" another B-67 player, Joy! I'm glad you got the upper octaves improved -- so many boxes (not just ours) suffer from weakness up there. I'm hoping for better response, blend and balance after The Button Box gets done with mine.

I really enjoy playing it, much prefer the button spacing to the Stagi, maybe I've smaller fingers than you, and those rich double-reeded chords just keep on making me smile.

Joy

Well, the Bastari button spacing is the Hayden Standard, and maybe I'll grow to like it once the sound and response are better. I do share your love for those rich LH bass notes and chords.

--Mike K.

[ragtimer]

I'm hoping for better response, blend and balance after The Button Box gets done with mine.

 

Well, the Bastari button spacing is the Hayden Standard, and maybe I'll grow to like it once the sound and response are better. I do share your love for those rich LH bass notes and chords.

--Mike K.

Here I am talking to myself again

Just wanted to mention that The Button Box has tuned my Bastari, and re-set some reeds, and while the tonal balance and response are still not perfect, everything is in tune and each note sounds solid, like a single reed and not two reeds having an argument

 

So I'm enjoying playing it a lot more, and am getting used to its closer button spacing. But I still use the 46-key Stagi for band gigs. Maybe that will change, or maybe I'll use both boxes in a set, with the Bastari for softer solo work, and the Stagi for dealing with fiddles and whistles.

 

Of course I'll bring the Bastari to NESI this September. I took it to the NCW this past spring, and got some good comments. So far the only tune I really prefer to play on it is Jody Kruskal's "Gone Fishing," but more tunes are in progress.

--Mike K.