Build It Yourself Midi Concertina Controller

[Michael Eskin]

This looks like something worth investigating, a build-it yourself MIDI concertina controller. Very crude, but could be fun:

 

http://home.stny.rr.com/peverett/gadget.html

Edited January 3, 2007 by eskin

[David Barnert]

We've talked about this before, but I can't find the thread right now. Paul Everett (who built it) often reads this list. Those are my fingers playing the thing in the first picture.

[Hooves]

I saw this site several months ago. I think it would be a useful item for quiet practice, but I think I would like it better if actaully squeezed in and out. I can see how it could be used as is for english or duet systems, but for anglo practice I don't see how you could indicate direction without a switch ora physical movement.

 

The creator has stated he is not working or planning to work further on the device.

 

heres an Idea:

 

get a junky cheapo tina , pull out the accordion reeds and cheap aluminum action and replace with switches for the buttons. They make pressure sensors and I bet it would not be hard to make a directional air flow switch. then, you would have a practice instrument which looks and feels like a real tina and could be perfectly quiet.

 

I believe there is a company that makes such a beast, but I think you could do it for a whole lot less keeping in mind its for practice or sequencing.

Edited January 3, 2007 by Hooves

[peverett]

I'd just about reclaimed the Midi Gadget disk space when somebody passed around the link and suddenly I'm getting email about it again.

 

The Gadget was intended as a "practice chanter" for the Hayden system (chanter = a simple, cheap, quiet practice instrument for pipers, like a drummer's practice pad). With the gadget I could try out the fingering system, and did, and had a great time.

 

My interest was music, not electronics, so when Stagi started producing 'acoustic' Haydens I gratefully bought one. I'd still love to see somebody produce a really cheap midi Hayden with bellows and all, but the realities of mass production and small markets make that unlikely.

 

Folks who write me seem to inhabit two camps: musicians (looking to try a Hayden instrument) and engineers (looking to play with midi technology). Some actually build keyboards after reading the site -- a few send videotapes of their creations in use (some very elegantly). Interestingly, none chose the concertina form factor, although several chose the Hayden button layout.

 

Jordan Petkof, from whom I lifted the design, is now in business as the "Midi Gadget Boutique" at http://www.midiboutique.com/ with a circuit board designed to midify an accordion or concertina. Many have discussed using the board, here and elsewhere -- I haven't seen any completed projects yet.

 

Paul E

[m3838]

Jordan Petkof, from whom I lifted the design, is now in business as the "Midi Gadget Boutique" at http://www.midiboutique.com/ with a circuit board designed to midify an accordion or concertina. Many have discussed using the board, here and elsewhere -- I haven't seen any completed projects yet.

 

Paul E

 

I just emailed him and asked about the price for midifying an English Concertina. I'm thinking of buying Jackie and turning it into silent practice instrument. If the price is reasonable, that is, cheaper than Jackie itself, It might pave the way, if not, it's the explanation of why there are no completed projects.

[accordionmagic]

The subject of MIDI concertinas crops up quite often here on Cnet and there are threads all over the place.

 

There are many completed MIDI English AND Anglo concertinas out there but by 'many' I mean dozens rather than hundreds.

 

As many of you already know, I produce my own version which is a retrofit to traditional acoustic instruments and Wim Wakker of the concertina connection produces his own brand new quality instruments. Neither are particularly cheap!

There are also other makers of non-traditional concertinas without bellows and these also have their place in the concertina world and these are'nt cheap either.

 

I probably manage to turn one out of every three enquiries into an order and without doubt it is the price that swings it one way or the other. The functionality of the MIDI instrument particularly with regard to the use of bellows pressure has now been sorted but the cost in development time has been high.

 

In my own case, the final cost of a MIDI instrument must include the cost of the donor instrument AND the cost of making it useable i.e. repairing bellows and action, must include the cost of the MIDI electronic components, must include the cost of assembly into the instrument AND MUST INCLUDE some cost for the development time incurred to get to this point.

 

It is amazing how many people seem to think that buying a bag of bits from Maplin and throwing them at your old Lachenal will produce a reliable MIDI marvel that will do what you want when you want it.. because it wont!!!!!!!!

Yes, you can buy kits from various places, and yes you can fit them yourself but I bet only one in ten makes it past the rats nest stage; I'VE SEEN EM!

 

I have been asked for a kit several times and every time we fail at the cost, and by that I dont mean the enquirer bows out gracefully, what I actually mean is that after dozens of emails and wasted time the emails suddenly and ungracefully cease to arrive!

 

Thanks to these people I will no longer entertain kits, bits, part finished, finished or anything in between. Finished MIDI concertinas only and certainly NOT for the price of a Jackie!

 

Roy Whiteley

[Chris Timson]

The functionality of the MIDI instrument particularly with regard to the use of bellows pressure has now been sorted

I can vouch for that!

but the cost in development time has been high.

Particularly for the anglo, which is a far more complex kettle of fish than an English. The electronics (controlled in this case by a PIC processor with code onboard written by Roy) have to interpret pressure changes where the concertina changes direction, both with and without holding the button down, and emulate the effect on the complex of reeds and valves inside a traditional concertina. As a computer programmer myself I take my hat off to what Roy has achieved with my MIDI anglo.

 

Chris

[OLDNICKILBY]

Why bother with all the hassle when you can buy an absolutely superb Midi from Dean Onyon in Loughborough Leicestershire

It works well it looks good and By jove it plays well

[sidesqueeze]

Why bother with all the hassle when you can buy an absolutely superb Midi from Dean Onyon in Loughborough Leicestershire

It works well it looks good and By jove it plays well

 

Mr. Onyon was not offering the Anglo system as of last November.

 

I would welcome correction or update on this matter!

[m3838]

Why bother with all the hassle when you can buy an absolutely superb Midi from Dean Onyon in Loughborough Leicestershire

It works well it looks good and By jove it plays well

 

Mr. Onyon was not offering the Anglo system as of last November.

 

I would welcome correction or update on this matter!

 

How does one contacts Dean Onyon?

Also, for the price of a Jackie.

I fail to see why silent practice instrument should be of superb quality, comparable to Morse or Edgley or higher, and cost as much. It defeats the purpose, hence fewer orders, in my opinion. If I save long enough, land good enough job, wait long enough, I can afford good quality acoustic instrument, and it's what it should be, and should do. Midi or any other electronic gadgets with guts sticking out and connected to other electronic toys are not music essentials. I don't see the niche for high quality MIDI concertina, kill me. It's a toy. Silent practice is entirely different matter, it's often the matter of playing an instrument or not.

It may even be completey without any pressure censors or buttons at all, just a paper map. I realize the time for development is costly and the market is small, but I also realize the miss in final goal. MIDI and the likes exist NOT to replace live symphony, but to make it happen. I haven't seen this approach yet. Rather it's either Bentley or none. Inevitably, except for some rare cases it's mostly none.

If you turn every 1 out of three enquiries into an order, it's huge and enormous success, probably due to the word of mouth and the quality you deliver.

On the other hand, I've seen many MIDI accordions in action - none of them will make anything musically, it's not even on the agenda. Most just plug various sounds and change them tastlessly at will: now it's horns and now it's strings. Older people, who by some obscured reason want to play large PAs standing, might benefit from the lightness of reedless instruments, but it's not essential for concertinas.

I also realize that most developers just want to have reward and not slug through the monotone labor just to survive, be there money or not.

And building a beautiful musical instrument sure is not a small feat.

[m3838]

I got reply from Jordan.

His price for MIDI-fying an English concertina is 350 Euro to connect to external processor and 500 Euro for keeping everything inside, including batteries, and adding headphone set

I think it's the best price so far and I'm going to do it in few months, when I get the funds ready.

So if some of you are ready to order and just looking for vendor, give Jordan a holler.

Edited January 5, 2007 by m3838

[accordionmagic]

The complete Idiots guide to concertina MIDI:

From above;

 

for the price of a Jackie.

If you want rubbish then pay rubbish!

 

I fail to see why silent practice instrument should be of superb quality, comparable to Morse or Edgley or higher, and cost as much. It defeats the purpose, hence fewer orders, in my opinion.

Concertina makers dont want to make rubbish and I would'nt want to put my name on rubbish! The purpose is where we dissagree.

 

This next comment is a classic;

 

Midi or any other electronic gadgets with guts sticking out and connected to other electronic toys are not music essentials. I don't see the niche for high quality MIDI concertina, kill me. It's a toy.

What you need is a Stylophone! see Rolf.

 

Silent practice is entirely different matter, it's often the matter of playing an instrument or not.

It may even be completey without any pressure censors or buttons at all, just a paper map.

New I was going wrong somewhere!

I bet I could get a tune out of one of those!

 

I realize the time for development is costly and the market is small, but I also realize the miss in final goal. MIDI and the likes exist NOT to replace live symphony, but to make it happen. I haven't seen this approach yet. Rather it's either Bentley or none. Inevitably, except for some rare cases it's mostly none.

I dont beleive that making a small number of quality instruments for discerning players miss's the final goal,

 

If you turn every 1 out of three enquiries into an order, it's huge and enormous success, probably due to the word of mouth and the quality you deliver.

Correct

 

On the other hand, I've seen many MIDI accordions in action - none of them will make anything musically, it's not even on the agenda. Most just plug various sounds and change them tastlessly at will: now it's horns and now it's strings.

OMG, I will show this to Pearl Fawcett on Friday when she comes to my home. She has been the world champion, is a Professor of music and is regarded as one of the finest accordionists of all time!

And guess what....... she has a MIDI system fitted to her one off hand made Italian accordion.

I'll point out the tasteless part just for you! Look her up and get an education!

DOH

 

Older people, who by some obscured reason want to play large PAs standing, might benefit from the lightness of reedless instruments, but it's not essential for concertinas.

Did you want one or not?

Next time I see a live band, I'll suggest they should sit.

 

I also realize that most developers just want to have reward and not slug through the monotone labor just to survive, be there money or not.

I actually manage somehow to scrape a living by restoring quality instruments to their former glory for the likes of you. This is the very first time that I have met with such an objectionable character, not one of the hundreds of instruments that have passed through my hands have been returned, MIDI or not and thats the way it will remain.

 

And building a beautiful musical instrument sure is not a small feat.

Dead bloody right!

 

Cheers

 

Roy Whiteley Bsc MIEE Ceng

www.accordionmagic.com

Accordion Magic Ltd

[peverett]

Well, the hostiles have arrived and the name-calling begun. This is where I usually quit, so I'll probably never be an "Advanced Member".

 

Folks are intrigued by Midi Squeezeboxes for lots of reasons. They're all valid, I think.

 

Some want to try a type not otherwise available; when I doodled the Gadget for a couple hundred bucks you couldn't get a Hayden at any price, and it took years to locate a good one.

 

Some are intrigued by the bits and wire -- "Make" subscribers who just plain prefer "DIY" projects.

 

Some pursue a high-fidelity reproduction of the original instrument and experience. This is an arcane and heroic calling.

 

Others hope to market a product, to capitalize on the vast population of musicians (hm... may work better with pianos and organs).

 

Many seek to extend the capability of the instrument. Okay, playing tuba voice is a gimmick, but it's a fun gimmick.

 

There are folks who are just interested in an electronic instrument for it's own sake (see "Thummer").

 

And finally, some belligerents just like to argue. These folks tends to drive away the rest.

 

"eskin", you're right: the Gadget was crude and fun. Hope you find a project you enjoy.

 

Paul E

 

"When all is said and done, more is said than done."

[m3838]

Fantastic misinterpretation of almost all that I said except the compliments. I'm puzzled (or am I?)

Don't mix your personal goal with objectivity.

And my disgust with electronic musical instruments (not all) comes from their total lack of acoustic character. Except for strings and Theremin, I haven't seen any musica electronic instruments. All the rest just poorly imitate acoustic equivalents.

As I understand, you would suggest light reedless accordions to a marching band?

Would you also suggest a van with equpment?

 

Look, there is no need for heating an old stove up. You want to be making Bentleys - great. I'm not your customer. But a guy in Bulgaria is making both, Bentleys AND mopeds and a moped is what I'm after. Call it rubbish, if you want.

By the way, a guy in Netherlands is too, making both high end concertinas AND low end ones. I'm the owner of low end and it's not bad - pretty workable. Again, you are free to call it rubbish.

[accordionmagic]

Nuff Said

[Geraghty]

I just emailed him and asked about the price for midifying an English Concertina. I'm thinking of buying Jackie and turning it into silent practice instrument. If the price is reasonable, that is, cheaper than Jackie itself, It might pave the way, if not, it's the explanation of why there are no completed projects.

 

I've just emailed to ask about the possibility of midifying an old 20-button German anglo I've got - will let you know if anything comes of it.

[m3838]

I just emailed him and asked about the price for midifying an English Concertina. I'm thinking of buying Jackie and turning it into silent practice instrument. If the price is reasonable, that is, cheaper than Jackie itself, It might pave the way, if not, it's the explanation of why there are no completed projects.

 

I've just emailed to ask about the possibility of midifying an old 20-button German anglo I've got - will let you know if anything comes of it.

\

 

If you've got 20 button, you can play with various tunings. Like adding some C#s or turning yoiur 20 button into a chromatic.

[Geraghty]

Will his work allow us to change the tunings ourselves? His reply didn't have much detail, but I've sent some questions.

 

In response to my original query, where I mentioned I'd heard he would do an English and asked if he'd do an Anglo, he said "From technical point of view there is no difference between instruments other than buttons number and notes they produce upon pulling/pushing bellows. Hence, your Anglo concertina might be turned into MIDI instrument as well."

 

He quoted a price of 500 euro for a self-contained unit with headphone output but didn't give any details about what features it would have. I now have to decide which box to put it in - a smaller sized metal ended one (preferred if he can do it) or a larger-than-usual wooden ended one. Both German. I've asked him if he has any requirements for the supplied casing.