English Concertina Goes Irish

[chiton1]

Let me introduce myself. My name is Hermann Strack and I live in the Netherlands. About 25 years ago I asked a musician friend, who at that time lived in Wales, UK, to bring me a concertina, as I fell in love with the sound of it. So he did. A good working but simple Lachenal with wooden sides and bone buttons English concertina. At that time I was (and still am) playing Irish and Breton music and I knew no better that this was the instrument I should have (I didn't know that other systems existed)! So as there were no other players/tutors around, I started teaching myself Irish music on the English concertina.

That went on for some time but a few years later I sold my instrument and again a few years later I bought another one (almost the same instrument) and yet another came my way; a Lachenal new model with metal ends, which I still have and play.

By that time I knew about Noel Hill's recordings and that he played another system. But I never switched as I played mainly the wooden flute and concertina came second.

As nowadays it seems that everybody plays the wooden flute I recently started to play more and more concertina. And one day I stumbled across this magnificent site, and found myself lost in endless reading (I remember forgetting time completely and going to bed at three in the morning).

 

Now I am coming to the point (have patience with me).

The way I play my English is with more dynamics and ornamentation as is usually done. In fact I am not very fond of most English system concertina players I know of. Even players as Alistair Anderson and Dave Townsend, which I admire in a way, do not play the kind of music I like to play myself (although some of the music Dave made is really great) and if they do, they do not play the way I like. Simon Thoumire comes closer but he is a madman (sorry Simon if you are reading this, I mean you are genius). Some of the things he does on the EC I really would like to see. But even his brilliant playing is not what I am looking for or am trying to do myself (if I could).

So first question: who knows of people playing the EC in an Irish way (without only copying the Anglo style, but also using the EC qualities). And of course I would like to meet (if possible) these guys/women or hear some recordings (if there are any).

 

The Lachenal New Model I bought came with wrist straps and these are just great (if not essential) to give me more gripp on the instrument, that's also why I only use four fingers to play with (see photograph) and also why I keep (part of) my instrument on my knee.

Second question would be any suggestions or experiences of how to use/hold the EC while playing Irish music.

 

Third and last, I am very interested in any ornamentation techniques. But I find it difficult even to explain in writing what I do while playing and I am not sure if I could really grasp any written explanations by others. Best would be to hear and see, but you could try me.

 

I am quite curious to see who will bother to read (and answer) all this concertina chitchat.

Thanks for any information or suggestions, Hermann

[Henk van Aalten]

Let me introduce myself. My name is Hermann Strack and I live in the Netherlands.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Welcome to this forum Hermann. As you already discovered it is a great site to spend a lot of hours of reading & writing.

 

I really enjoyed your story. It's a nice example of learning to play an instrument in (relative) isolation. I certainly would like to hear you play. Well.. we both live in The Netherlands so, who knows..

 

So first question: who knows of people playing the EC in an Irish way (without only copying the Anglo style, but also using the EC qualities). And of course I would like to meet (if possible) these guys/women or hear some recordings (if there are any).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Last year at the Scandinavian Squeeze In, there were two EC players (Jonathan Taylor and Henrik Muller) playing Irish traditional music that sounded very Irish to me. The best thing for you to do, is going to this Squeeze In this year and hope that these two guys will join again.

[Mark Evans]

Hello Herman!

 

I play Irish EC. There are a number of EC/Irish addicted to this site. I'm sure you've read Jim Lucas posts. He'll catch up to you here I'm sure..but check out the recorded links page and you'll find a number of his excellent examples of EC/Irish. Also Danny Chamberland (does a lot of other rep too) all top drawer and very different...come to think of it all the EC/Irish on the site is dead on (those two were just at the front of my cluttered mind).

 

Funny, but in playing Irish I listen more in my head to the flute, whistle and fiddle. There are a couple of tunes I want to approach with an Anglo "bounce", but it's just for fun. The Anglo is another beast altogether which I played as a youngster (I always felt limited until discovering EC).

 

Ornamentation is potentially limitless on an EC. Steal from every instrument you hear including your own style on wooden flute. Being addicted to an instrument that is neither fish nor fowl in Irish music gives you a lot of room to do your own thing.

Edited January 11, 2005 by Mark Evans

[Ken_Coles]

Hermann, if you ever get to North America, sit down with Ken Sweeney. He plays Irish as well as anyone I've seen, and the only way to tell that he's playing an English concertina is to look at the instrument. His grip is unusual (someone has described it here before) and gives him two fingers on one end and four on the other end.

[Sandy Winters]

Hello Hermann, Here is a link to Simon Wells' anglo tutor. It has a very descriptive section discussing ornamentation in the Irish style. The information can be applied to English concertina to get your playing to sound more like modern Irish style. (It sounds like you may already be familiar with the ornaments typically used in Irish style playing.??)

 

Simon Wells anglo tutor

 

I've had a few lessons from John Williams over the past several years and we've worked mostly on ornamentation. He shows me a passage on his anglo and then I try to figure out the best way to execute it on the english.

 

A few simple rules: (tho not set in stone)

 

Avoid flute/fiddle type rolls with ornamental notes 'below' the melody note. All ornamental notes should be above the melody. (See Wells' tutor)

 

Become proficient at using alternating fingers on repeated notes.

 

Add bass notes when you can, but not chords.

 

Strive for 'crisp' playing rather than legato.

 

Another EC player who emulates the Irish style very well is Joel Bernstein. There are a few tracks of his playing on a CD he recorded with Randal Bays entitled "Pigtown Fling".

[Mark Evans]

Uh-oh! I'm afraid I'll have to kick over the caldron meself here:

 

No ornaments that start below the melody line? I wouldn't like to restrict myself there. One time through I might choose an appogiatura above the line and then second time 'round slide one in from below.

 

No legato? Harpist Mairead Doherty would have kicked me in the backside last night were I to have bounced my way through the opening of "Carolan's Draught" as she poured out her honeyed legato! (things bounced plenty in the C part)

 

No flute or fiddle rolls? My joy each week is immitating the fiddler and flautists "little extra bits." The fiddler particularly likes to suprise me with an immitation of one of my ornaments and boy do we giggle!

 

No full chords! Well, what am I to do? There's a guitar player across the circle in some out there tuning pouring out luscious quick chord change ups in the "Blarney Pilgrim" that makes me want to bay at the moon like a H-O-U-N-D! The C part comes up fast and I feel compelled to drop out of the melody and roar out staccto full D and G chords while the other lead instruments pound out the repeated notes! Can't live without that possible option.

 

There is no way an EC in the end can sound like an Anglo. It's okay to do it as best you can (and get pretty good at it too I'll wager) but yer gonna get a bit of ribbing from those who don't want the EC there anyway (unfortunately, they'll most likely be the free readers in the room). The chances of their conversion is slim and none. Here in the Boston area we have seisuin like a dog has fleas. Several I've been invited to and declined knowing I'd not be welcomed immitating an Anglo er no. That's cool and I understand. I've listened to several in quiet with me box left at the house. Excellent... but as I've posted here long ago "NO English Need Apply".

 

In the end, Sandys advice is sound if you want a chance for a seat at that table.

 

Now I think I'll "duck an' cover."

 

Sandy, no disrespect intended. You gave Helmut bible an' verse sho'nuff.

Edited January 12, 2005 by Mark Evans

[Mark Evans]

Hermann, please forgive me. There I was going on about my foolish points (head shoved where the sun don't shine) and I refer to you as Helmut. Sorry.

 

Embarrassed beyond belief,

 

Mark the Churlish

[chiton1]

Doesn't matter Mark - what's in a name anyway?

And you had the first two letters right!

 

Concerning EC playing I think you (Mark) are quite right, not to try make an AC from a EC! I use whatever sounds good; chords and lots of double notes, bass notes are easier on Anglo's I think but I use them if I can incorperate them and if they do not temper my speed too much. I play a lot around my notes, but some things I do on the flute like for instance cranning, I have never done on my EC.

On the other hand I agree with Sandy that most Irish dance tunes should be played ''crispy'' and not legato. Although sometimes parts of a dance tune could be played more legato. That's one of the great advantages of EC. You are the master of the instrument and you decide if it will play staccato or legato. And of course for (slow) airs the legato playing is essential.

I know John Williams from his recordings, isn't he in Chicago? I know Dick Abrahams from Chicago as I meet him sometimes in Brittany (his daughter is married to an old flute playing friend of mine).

I put all the recommended players in my file, but it seems I have to travel to Scandinavia or the US to see them. Henk will be easier to meet, and although I presume he plays an Anglo, it would be great fun to meet one day (I live in the city of Dordrecht by the way).

Are there ''gigs'' in the US where EC players are not allowed?! Why? If it was a piano accordeon I could imagine (sorry if I offend somebody, but I never liked the sound of it and it is rarely played in a way I like).

 

Hé nobody talks about my wrist straps, I feel partly paralized when I play a concertina without these straps. Am I the only EC player in the world using them???

 

Hermann

[Mark Evans]

Thank you Hermann. Sounds like you are very clear with the approach you wish to take...and it's a good one.

 

There are seisuin where an EC player will be looked at sideways for sure. I can only speak of my experience in the Boston Area. Sad thing is it's often a fellow squeezer that really gets worked up. We have a very old Irish community here with strong (some would say strangled traditions). It dosen't take long to see where I'd best sing one before I try and play (perhaps play)and in the tradition of a seisuin you have to be asked 'round these parts.

 

I found a home in a once a week seisuin close to my town (John Stone's Public House in Ashland on Tuesdays, ya'll come on down). Hot players who could give a hang about my EC not being an AC (wooden flute/tin whistle, fiddle, banjo/guitar, hammered dulcimer, bodran, another EC and Harp). They are a dream to make music with...but tradition lurks there for sure. They expect a concertinist should be able to sing (actually they insist you sing) but not accompany oneself. Funny eh?

 

I sing a lot of a cappella rep and the harpist accompanys the others songs (she's a master so who am I to complain, besides she is teaching me Gealic). Once in a while she misses a week and I accompany myself .

 

Don't worry about that strap thing man. Check out Wim Waaker (did I spell that right?)... Classical concertinist. There used to be a link on his site with his (I think) daughter playing an EC with straps and a charming duet with Wim playing with her.

 

You should hook up with Henk. EC and AC together is good (crunchy, but good).

Edited January 13, 2005 by Mark Evans

[JimLucas]

Hé nobody talks about my wrist straps, I feel partly paralized when I play a concertina without these straps. Am I the only EC player in the world using them???

Not the only one, not at all.

And there are even a few -- including the outstanding Wim Wakker -- who use a neck strap.

 

But there are others -- including myself -- who use neither. The way I hold and play the instrument, I find that the wrist straps don't add anything, and a neck strap can even be a hindrance.

 

You might want to try the search facility here to look up old discussions both on straps and on use of EC in playing Irish music.

[Ken_Coles]

I have been to many US seisuns that are not in old Irish areas, and in those places, the (mostly self-taught, mostly leearned-as-adult) musicians don't care what you play. The difficulty with AC vs. EC only comes up in a few places for example parts of Boston, New York, and Chicago in my experience. Those are seisuns I'm not good enough to play in most of the time anyway; just listen. It has been said many times, each instrument brings its own approach, ornaments, etc. and EC is part of that. Its part of the tradition, which varies at different speeds in different places. I can imagine an old timer in 1875 saying, "I don't know about these newfangled wood flutes, the fiddle or pipes are the thing."

[JimLucas]

I can imagine an old timer in 1875 saying, "I don't know about these newfangled wood flutes, the fiddle or pipes are the thing."

Well I remember piper Tom Standeven complaining about the pipes being displaced by that foreign intruder, the fiddle.

[Sandy Winters]

Hi Hermann, Yes John Williams and Dick Abrams (correct spelling) are both in Chicago. They are both good friends of mine, in fact, I was just at Dick's house two days ago. Say 'hello' to Jean-Michel for me next time you see him.

 

As for wrists straps, I've always used them on my EC.

[Sandy Winters]

Hi Mark, As I clearly indicated the few simple rules are not set in stone. Perhaps 'guidelines' would have been a better word to use than 'rule'. And they certainly apply only if you want to emulate the modern anglo style.

 

However, if you don't follow those guidelines at high level sessions most of the time it's more likely that you will not be 'accepted at the table', as you say. There are as many 'tables' here in Chicago as in Boston and I've previously *not* been accepted at most of them. But the grumbling isn't as loud and often as it used to be, since I've agreed to 'play' by their rules:-)

[nils]

Hi Hermann,

 

more usefull than typing is playing and you could do that at the German Concertina Meeting in Bielefeld on the second weekend in may. We are at least five "Irish on EC" players. There will be a EC course that includes a lot of jazz elements (if Rainer Sußmilch is teaching it) and an AC course by an irish tutor. Our tutors in the last years were:

Noel Hill, Tim Collins, Brid Meany, Aife O'Connor, Michelle O'Sullivan (I hope I got the names right.) We Irish ECs usualle take the AC course and explore the different approach to the music for our instrument. No tutor ever objected, they all were very much interested in the different possibilities.

 

Hope to meet you there

 

Nils

[nils]

Hi Hermann,

 

more usefull than typing is playing and you could do that at the German Concertina Meeting in Bielefeld on the second weekend in may. We are at least five "Irish on EC" players. There will be a EC course that includes a lot of jazz elements (if Rainer Sußmilch is teaching it) and an AC course by an irish tutor. Our tutors in the last years were:

Noel Hill, Tim Collins, Brid Meany, Aife O'Connor, Michelle O'Sullivan (I hope I got the names right.) We Irish ECs usualle take the AC course and explore the different approach to the music for our instrument. No tutor ever objected, they all were very much interested in the different possibilities.

 

Hope to meet you there

 

Nils

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wrist straps: The folk player I admire most for her dynamic playing is Sandra Kerr, she allways uses wriststraps.

[Mark Evans]

Thanks for the clairification Sandy. I hear ya man, an' no doubt you are right.

 

Ain't into rules anymore. Have just (past year) retired from the "Opera-classical" scene. Had a belly full an' then some with rules, self appointed experts and conductors wavin' a stick in my face.

 

Returning to my various musical loves was just for my soul. I'm blessed in being surrounded by some remarkable musicians that have enfolded and healed me with bluegrass, old time, blues and my very special beloved celtic music. Sorry to sound like a weepy, whacky old man, but this wonderful C.Net is a part of that too.

 

Sandy, that's a mighty fine lookin' dog you've got.

[JimLucas]

The 1950's film version of the Titanic story, A night To Remember, shows an English concertina being played by the Irish emigrants in steerage class having a ceilidh.

I don't know the book, but I'll hazard a guess that it mentions concertina, without any indication of whether it's English, duet, anglo, or German. And that the film director, unaware of the variety, simply found a "concertina" player for the part.

 

Imagine if it had been a Chemnitzer!