MatthewVanitas Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) This auction looks a bit fishy: the photos are a little too nice, the seller doesn't seem to know much about concertinas at all... and has zero feedback. Other than that, annoyingly "I have no idea what I'm talking about but trust me this is a very valuable item!!!" prose, and the horribly spammy gimmick of including a photocopy of a catalog page to pseudo-justify putting keywords in the title. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161243798140 J Crabb and Son concertina, catalogs Jeffries Wheatstone Lachenal accordion rare 61 BUTTONS, VERY RARE AND LARGE CONCERTINA J Crabb and Son 61-key concertina This beautiful and rare Crabb concertina features nickel-plated metal ends with thirty four metal keys on one end and twenty seven at the other. The buttons all work and all notes sound, though I am not a concertina expert and don't know whether everything works perfectly, nor whether this is an anglo, english, etc. The instrument sounds as one would expect of a Crabb, which rival Jeffries concertinas in value and sound quality - beautiful, responsive and loud. Crabbs of this size usually sell for $4500-6000, if you can find one, as one of this size is extremely rare. The metal plates on this one should polish up very nicely. I will include a copy of pages from a catalog featuring Wheatstone, Jeffries and Lachenal concertinas if you purchase this concertina. I don't follow the scam-auctions that closely, but is this a little off of the usual? I thought they usually did a better job hacking an account with established feedback, and copying some intelligent-sounding ad copy off an older auction so they sound informed. Or is this somehow a legit auction, just poorly planned? Edited March 11, 2014 by MatthewVanitas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hersh Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 I would guess that it's a legit auction, but the price strikes me as high for an unrestored concertina in unknown condition from an unknown seller. Still, if I lived in the right part of California I would ask the buyer if I could look at it in person. This auction looks a bit fishy: the photos are a little too nice, the seller doesn't seem to know much about concertinas at all... and has zero feedback. Other than that, annoyingly "I have no idea what I'm talking about but trust me this is a very valuable item!!!" prose, and the horribly spammy gimmick of including a photocopy of a catalog page to pseudo-justify putting keywords in the title. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=161243798140 I don't follow the scam-auctions that closely, but is this a little off of the usual? I thought they usually did a better job hacking an account with established feedback, and copying some intelligent-sounding ad copy off an older auction so they sound informed. Or is this somehow a legit auction, just poorly planned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 this has to be the scammer who posted this listing for a dilapidated-but-"valuable" Jeffries Duet not long ago, different seller moniker but also in southern california--- note the repeated language in the descriptions, viz, if you buy-it-now i'll tuck in pages from jeffries and lachenal catalogues, blah, blah, and also note the tag, "listing ended due to a mistake in the description"---yeah, right.... "don't be afraid to put in a reasonable best offer" !! http://www.ebay.com/itm/JEFFRIES-61-KEY-CONCERTINA-ENGLISH-ANGLO-ACCORDION-CATALOG-LACHENAL-WHEATSTONE-/281225513380 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) However, it has been improved on the offer in the meantime, you'd get the catalogue pages when having placed a winning bid as well... Edited March 11, 2014 by blue eyed sailor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) This instrument appeared at auction last week. The photos in the present listing are taken from the auction catalogue entry. Also, notice that the eBay vendor has 0 feedback. Edited March 11, 2014 by SteveS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 This instrument appeared at auction last week. The photos in the present listing are taken from the auction catalogue entry. Also, notice that the eBay vendor has 0 feedback. Auction listing and description can still be seen at http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/sworders/catalogue-id-2897996/lot-21096582 Unfortunately I was unaware of this sale and would have been interested in just seeing this truly rare instrument, for obvious reasons, especially also, as the auction house is only about three miles from my home. I have posted a brief comment regarding the instrument in the Concertina History section. Geoffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MatthewVanitas Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 Auction listing and description can still be seen at http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/sworders/catalogue-id-2897996/lot-21096582 Well, their descrip certainly varies from that of the current auction: A concertina, by J Crabb and Son, in its original leather case, one end with 27 buttons, the other 34 buttons, case with part of original paper label CONDITION REPORT: Bellows corners pushed in. Metal bracket repair on one corner. Pushed in fret on one end. Inside of box in poor condition. Estimate: £300 - £400 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 (edited) this size & config would be my dream crabb crane...would love to have one like this to go with my huge one, which is itself only 67 notes (55-sixties is plenty for me), but the size of an 80b+ due to the reed scaling....... Edited March 11, 2014 by ceemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 This instrument appeared at auction last week. The photos in the present listing are taken from the auction catalogue entry. Also, notice that the eBay vendor has 0 feedback. Auction listing and description can still be seen at http://www.the-saleroom.com/en-gb/auction-catalogues/sworders/catalogue-id-2897996/lot-21096582 Unfortunately I was unaware of this sale and would have been interested in just seeing this truly rare instrument, for obvious reasons, especially also, as the auction house is only about three miles from my home. I have posted a brief comment regarding the instrument in the Concertina History section. Geoffrey Perhaps it didn't sell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveS Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 It did sell - I forget the exact hammer price, but it was something of the order of £1300. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hersh Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 It did sell - I forget the exact hammer price, but it was something of the order of £1300. Could the auction buyer be the eBay seller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Molkentin Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 It did sell - I forget the exact hammer price, but it was something of the order of £1300. Could the auction buyer be the eBay seller? Good to look upon it in another way... But when we take into account 1. Ceemonster's remark regarding the previous (likely to have been) scam, and 2. the auctioneer's describing the state of the instrument, it will most likely be either scam of a non-owner as presumed or cheating with a description (and price!) far away from the adequate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 (edited) they are vacuuming and sucking descriptor language, photos, and other details from sales or listings elsewhere, including auctions. i have seen language often used by Barleycorn, Theo Gibb's listings, auctions, and other sources, sucked into scam descriptors. i have seen auction items in other scams. i was devastated a year or so ago when my dream metal-ended Edeophone TT appeared in lovely restored condition on the bay, only to do some checking around and see the item in an auction listing that was a couple of years old.... Edited March 12, 2014 by ceemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Chambers Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 Some of the items being listed by marcmaudio seem to be in the inventory of Antiquity Music, who are based in Culver City where the eBay seller says he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted March 18, 2014 Share Posted March 18, 2014 (edited) antiquity music: yeah, that is what i meant in my earlier post... [this has to be the scammer who posted this listing for a dilapidated-but-"valuable" Jeffries Duet not long ago, different seller moniker but also in southern california--- note the repeated language in the descriptions, viz, if you buy-it-now i'll tuck in pages from jeffries and lachenal catalogues, blah, blah] i see that they have a web site, but the address on it is for a ups. wonder if it is a POB. the whole thing sounds verrrry weird. Edited March 18, 2014 by ceemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Hersh Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 I can't know for sure, but I would guess that the seller either has the concertina or has an option to purchase it from the owner. (Though I still think the price is too high.) The seller has listed it several times on eBay along with a number of other expensive instruments, and his profile shows 8 completed sales in the last month or so with no negative feedback. These aren't the marks of someone who is listing items that he doesn't actually have to sell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ceemonster Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 (edited) ebay scammers often seed an ebay file with legit sales of cheap stuff to get their ebay numbers up. some of the description phrases come verbatim from past barleycorn postings or auction descriptions out there on google. though, i guess you could be legit but sucking your descriptor language from elsewhere. their facebook page does sound authentic, and there is other material out there about them on the web. the guy is a lawyer who says he found he could make money acquiring and turninig over rare instruments at a profit. he states that sometimes people are surprised and disappointed that they can't afford and are unable to buy his instruments, which cost thousands of dollars... https://www.facebook.com/antiquitymusic it just bugs me that the current Crane listing is not by "antiquity music." it's by a "marcmaudio" with no ebay history...the listing a couple months back for a jeffries duet was listed by "antiquity music"-- i live in the region and am getting curious enough to do some snooping around, but can't do it for a few days, too bogged down with work... Edited March 25, 2014 by ceemonster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danersen Posted March 25, 2014 Share Posted March 25, 2014 FWIW, My eBay inquiry preceded here by the seller's reply. Dear danersen, I won't have pictures of the insides for a while. If you think that $2750 is a premium price for this rare concertina, look elsewhere Sent from my iPhone On Mar 23, 2014, at 8:34 AM, "eBay Member: danersen" <<email address removed per ebay policy>> wrote: From: danersen To: marcmaudio Subject: Re: danersen has sent a question about item #161251573754, ending on Mar-23-14 17:24:00 PDT - J Crabb and Son concertina, catalogs Jeffries Wheatstone Lachenal accordion rare Sent Date: Mar-23-14 08:34:21 PDT Dear marcmaudio, Hello, Do you have photos of the reeds and reed pans that you can send? The external appearance suggests that there could be corrosion on the reeds and degradation of the internal parts. This is critical to know given your listing price and no return policy as it may well require a substantial investment to restore it to proper playing condition. A close-up photo of the oval name plate will also be very helpful. FYI, while Crabb concertinas are highly regarded and Crane systems by Crabb are not plentiful, neither is the demand as it is not a widely-played system and has a very limited following. This, along with the uncertainty of its condition, run contrary to your expectation that this concertina should/will sell at a premium price. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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