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A Remarkable Young Anglo Player

Cohen Braithwaite-Kilcoyne Anglo

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#19 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 11:44 AM

completely OT, I'm sorry - couldn't avoid that  :ph34r:



#20 Noel Ways

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Posted 24 November 2017 - 11:56 AM

Adrian,

 

You had mentioned that Cohen had

sent you a few videos of a concert he'd given in Sheffield.

Are these available to us ?



#21 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 03:55 AM

Don, as to the flute- or trumpet-like sound I'm hearing that too (particularly the latter). However I hesitate to just chalk that up to the account of Mr Doppler as well. I reckon shorter and simpler movements could affect the envelope, particularly attack and decay, and not just re volume but harmonics as well, and this will be very much influencing our perception, with these other instruments already in mind (sort of a welcome if not intended fraud). But I'm not sure that this effect can be strong enough to really make a difference here, and there is the other factor of a both profound and nasal reed sound which has either to be already there or produced otherwise.

From my own (in the given context I can only say: modest) playing I would gather that vigorous single-line melody playing (which I'm not doing very often) can produce these trumpet-like sounds (example, with no EQ applied). OTOH I seem to hear now how these frequently moving the concertina sideways would have improved the take, making the sound more lively and possibly still more trumpetish).

So, after all, I reckon Mr Doppler can take part of the credit for us hearing trumpets & Co. - just like with the Leslie cabinet and effect, which is not easily produced otherwise (in this case: bellows shakes of the often discussed "vibrato/tremolo" style wouldn't resp. didn't do it to a similar extent).

Which leaves us with the mystery of the high-quality recording anyway...

Best wishes - Wolf

Edited by Wolf Molkentin, 25 November 2017 - 04:13 AM.


#22 David Barnert

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 01:40 PM

Regarding Doppler effects and rapid concertina movement: Remember that the instrument is between the performer and the audience, so any Doppler effect will be perceived differently by the two parties. Any component of the movement of the instrument that is toward or away from the audience will yield opposite effects (tone raised or lowered) as perceived by the audience vs. the performer. The component of movement that is not toward or away from the audience will not contribute to the Doppler effect as perceived by the audience. Perception at the microphone will likewise be dependent on its position, and may be unrelated to what the performer or audience experiences unless it is near one of them.



#23 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 02:25 PM

David, maybe reflections on the walls are contributing?

Best wishes - Wolf

#24 David Barnert

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 09:00 PM

Perhaps, but my point was that when the Doppler effect is in play, what the performer, audience, and microphone hear are quite different, so the performer cannot control what the others hear by using what he hears as feedback.

#25 David Barnert

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Posted 25 November 2017 - 11:44 PM

Meanwhile, back on topic, I notice Mr. Braithwaite-Kilcoyne’s web site describes him as a “folk musician and singer.” It describes his repertoire as “mainly of traditional songs with accompaniment from anglo concertina or melodeon... traditional tunes and the occasional un-accompanied song.” And his performances include “traditional ballads, historical songs, industrial songs, sea songs and shanties, with a fair amount of material linked to the West Midlands where Cohen has lived for much of his life.”

 

Not a single mention of classical or baroque music.


Edited by David Barnert, 25 November 2017 - 11:46 PM.


#26 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:35 AM

maybe the website will undergo an update now that his study and graduation have possibly been taking him in a different direction, resp. lead him to expanding his musical universe...

#27 Noel Ways

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:32 PM

I am certain that the University of Leeds had certain musical parameters

that guided Cohens studies and his selection of music for his final recital. 

The website may still be just fine.

 

Regardless, I cannot help but conclude that whatever the guiding source of music selection,

Cohen rose to the occasion, mastered the music, and raised the bar for many of us.

 

I look forward to following this young man and seeing how he

develops musically for the next several decades.


Edited by Noel Ways, 26 November 2017 - 02:33 PM.


#28 David Barnert

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:48 PM

I wasn’t being critical, just curious. Can it be that when the site was put together classical music was not on his list of priorities?

#29 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 02:55 PM

I wasnt being critical, just curious. Can it be that when the site was put together classical music was not on his list of priorities?


that's at least what I meant to suggest, and I guess it's indeed possible, as the choice of musical material (and the way he's presenting it as well) seems fairly comprehensible from a folk-ish starting point to me.

Best wishes - Wolf

#30 Don Taylor

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Posted 26 November 2017 - 03:43 PM

It is tough enough to make a living as a solo folk musician/teacher let alone as a classical musician playing an instrument that is not, to say the least, a mainstream instrument in the genre.

I think that Leeds are to be commended for encouraging/letting him adapt his instrument to the program. I imagine that there were a few frowny faces...

#31 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 27 November 2017 - 06:40 AM

I think that Leeds are to be commended for encouraging/letting him adapt his instrument to the program. I imagine that there were a few frowny faces...

 

Exactly.



#32 adrian brown

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 05:47 AM

Noel:

These were private videos made by a friend of mine and I don't think he intended to circulate them. I certainly would want to ask Cohen first, but I cannot find the links at the moment. I will try to find out and will let you know.

 

Don and Wolf,

I think the recording was made in the normal fashion for classical music, with good quality room mics above and in front of the performers. I would imagine in the music department of a University with a purpose made concert hall it would not be too difficult to achieve good results like this.

 

Adrian



#33 wayman

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 06:11 AM

I'm delighted to see Cohen is getting adulations here - he's brilliant, and also an utterly likable fellow. He mostly plays melodeon in the folk trio Granny's Attic, and it's about half-and-half melodeon and concertina when he performs solo, from the two times I've seen him in concert. I first saw him when he was the guest at one of Jon Boden's Royal Traditions folk clubs outside Sheffield back in the spring. Then, he was a tutor at the Soundpost weekend of workshops in June where I got to know him better.

 

He didn't even acknowledge playing classical repertoire at either of these events ... until on the Sunday afternoon of the workshop weekend, when he mentioned he had just finished his degree (the recital we're all awestruck by had happened only a week or two before the Soundpost weekend). People at Soundpost asked him what he played for his recital, and he said it wasn't really folk stuff, more classical. And of course, we all said "SHOW US!" and he said "but this is a folk weekend!" or something and kept on with his excellent folk repertoire. 

 

When he finished, nobody would let him leave without an encore (he didn't give on that he'd planned or intended to do one), and so he consented, said something to the effect of "... after my recital, I thought I'd never play this again! but I guess since it's still fresh in my mind I'll give it one more go..." and gave us the Matheson gigue. And ... Cohen was - no discredit to John Kirkpatrick intended! - way, way, WAY better than the recording of John Kirkpatrick playing this on Anglo International. 

 

I didn't get the sense that Cohen actually expected people - particularly a folk audience - would want to hear him play classical music on the concertina.

 

Let's make sure he knows we want to hear it  :)

 

Will

 

ps, I sent Adrian a few videos privately - at least one from the Royal Trad club, and maybe also the gigue from Soundpost - and, if you've ever seen Back to the Future, it was basically like the Marvin Berry phone call scene ... I didn't tell Cohen I'd made or shared the videos, and thus didn't make them public, I just knew desperately in that moment I had to tell Adrian "you have GOT to see this!" ... it was clear, from Cohen's folk stuff, old hornpipes and such, that he was a master of the bass run and keeping multiple counterpoint lines going, even though I hadn't yet heard him approach a classical piece. If I (or Adrian) can find them again, he or I will write Cohen and see about sharing them to a wider audience.



#34 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 06:21 AM

Let's make sure he knows we want to hear it  :)


very much indeed!  :)



#35 adrian brown

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 06:44 AM

ps, I sent Adrian a few videos privately - at least one from the Royal Trad club, and maybe also the gigue from Soundpost - and, if you've ever seen Back to the Future, it was basically like the Marvin Berry phone call scene ... I didn't tell Cohen I'd made or shared the videos, and thus didn't make them public, I just knew desperately in that moment I had to tell Adrian "you have GOT to see this!" ... it was clear, from Cohen's folk stuff, old hornpipes and such, that he was a master of the bass run and keeping multiple counterpoint lines going, even though I hadn't yet heard him approach a classical piece. If I (or Adrian) can find them again, he or I will write Cohen and see about sharing them to a wider audience.

 

I'm so glad you mentioned "Back to the Future" Will - that was exactly how it felt to me!

 

Adrian



#36 Noel Ways

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Posted 28 November 2017 - 11:41 AM

Thank you for the historical vignette above, Will.

I am still awestruck ...

 

 

If I (or Adrian) can find them again, he or I will write Cohen and see about sharing them to a wider audience.

 

 

Yes, please do !!

 

And, THANK YOU in advance.


Edited by Noel Ways, 28 November 2017 - 12:04 PM.






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