Loud Note

[varney]

I've been working on a Crabb 38 key metal end which has a nice brash sound, but one note in particular ( the A on the inside row left side )is distinctly louder than pretty much every other reed on that side. The others aren't dull - more the opposite = but this reed is really strong and trumpety and just jumps out a little more.

 

Any suggestions on how best to tone it down a notch to blend with the rest?

 

Michael.

[Greg Jowaisas]

Michael,

First I'd try swapping the 'A' with others on that side to see if it is more the position in the reed pan or the reed.

 

I've used a heavier valve to "tone down" some obstreperous reeds.

 

Greg

[varney]

Hi Greg,

 

Good to hear from you! I'll try a swap around and see if that makes a difference. If it does, what is that telling me - that this particular 'A' chamber is better sealed or more resonant in some way?

 

I can easily 'heavy up' the valve like you suggested, but I don't want to impede the playability in any way. Will give it a try and see what happens.

 

The obvious solution would be to replace the reed with a slightly quieter one, but I'm always reluctant to break up a set - even if it's just by a single reed.

 

Michael.

[Greg Jowaisas]

Hi Greg,

 

Good to hear from you! I'll try a swap around and see if that makes a difference. If it does, what is that telling me - that this particular 'A' chamber is better sealed or more resonant in some way?

 

I can easily 'heavy up' the valve like you suggested, but I don't want to impede the playability in any way. Will give it a try and see what happens.

 

The obvious solution would be to replace the reed with a slightly quieter one, but I'm always reluctant to break up a set - even if it's just by a single reed.

 

Michael.

Reed position in an instrument can make a difference in volume and timbre. For example the way some notes on an anglo fall under the hands give them a slightly different tone and volume. Your strong 'A' may sound better (at least to the player) on the LH G row under the hand as opposed to C row top button position.

 

Malcolm Clapp, one of my concertina repair Gurus, once told me that the humble valve was perhaps the most under rated factor in setting up an instrument. It takes a little trial and error and patience but valve thickness, stiffness and size can influence tone and response. Have fun experimenting.

 

Greg

Edited November 12, 2011 by Greg Jowaisas

[Geoffrey Crabb]

Hi Greg,

 

Good to hear from you! I'll try a swap around and see if that makes a difference. If it does, what is that telling me - that this particular 'A' chamber is better sealed or more resonant in some way?

 

I can easily 'heavy up' the valve like you suggested, but I don't want to impede the playability in any way. Will give it a try and see what happens.

 

The obvious solution would be to replace the reed with a slightly quieter one, but I'm always reluctant to break up a set - even if it's just by a single reed.

 

Michael.

Reed position in an instrument can make a difference in volume and timbre. For example the way some notes on an anglo fall under the hands give them a slightly different tone and volume. Your strong 'A' may sound better (at least to the player) on the LH G row under the hand as opposed to C row top button position.

 

Malcolm Clapp, one of my concertina repair Gurus, once told me that the humble valve was perhaps the most under rated factor in setting up an instrument. It takes a little trial and error and patience but valve thickness, stiffness and size can influence tone and response. Have fun experimenting.

 

Greg

 

This is a change from the more common 'Quiet Note' queries.

 

Greg,

I think that the 'A' referred to is already under the hand.

the A on the inside row left side

.

 

 

Michael,

whilst swapping same value reeds may pinpoint a problem, in this case I would suggest temporarily reversing the position of the 'A' reed with its associated 'G' reed assuming that they are of the same size. Care should be taken not to force reeds into slots for which they were not originally intended.

 

If the 'G' now sounds louder. Then, as Greg suggested, a heavier valve may be the solution.

 

If the 'A' remains louder, this may indicate that the reed tongue is thinner than preferred as a result of overzealous filing during retuning at some time

 

Whilst reed chamber characteristics (position/shape) can affect tone etc., I do not think that this should be considered here.

 

GENERAL WARNING. REED ADJUSTMENT OR ALTERATION SHOULD BE CONSIDERED A LAST OPTION IN PROBLEM SOLVING. THINNING OF REED TONGUES TO IMPROVE THE VOLUME (LOUDNESS) OF AN INSTRUMENT INVARIABLY CAUSES, A REVERSE EFFECT, REED 'CHOKING' OR NOTE INSTABILITY.

PROFFESSIONAL CORRECTION MAY BE EXPENSIVE.

 

Geoff

[Frank Edgley]

If both notes (G/A) are loud, you might want to try adding a felt "doughnut" under the button to reduce the pad elevation.

[varney]

Thanks for the very insightful advice folks....All replies had something which was useful and new to me... I'll gird my loins and have a run through those suggestions when I open it up again tomorrow morning.

 

Geoff - I think I read somewhere that thin 'whippier' reed tongues had better response and/or more volume. I'm not sure why thinner is louder but am willing to learn!

 

Greg - Valves are something which I'm trying to focus more on and have gotten a range of different thickness leathers to experiment with. Trial and error, but and advice is most welcome. Am I over-simplifying to think 'thicker makes reeds quiter, therfore thinner can improve volume'?

 

Frank - I didn't think of limiting the pad height - a good suggestion and useful to know.

 

Michael.

[Greg Jowaisas]

Thanks for the very insightful advice folks....All replies had something which was useful and new to me... I'll gird my loins and have a run through those suggestions when I open it up again tomorrow morning.

 

Geoff - I think I read somewhere that thin 'whippier' reed tongues had better response and/or more volume. I'm not sure why thinner is louder but am willing to learn!

 

Greg - Valves are something which I'm trying to focus more on and have gotten a range of different thickness leathers to experiment with. Trial and error, but and advice is most welcome. Am I over-simplifying to think 'thicker makes reeds quiter, therfore thinner can improve volume'?

 

Frank - I didn't think of limiting the pad height - a good suggestion and useful to know.

 

Michael.

 

My listening intuition says overtones may be affected by different thicknesses and quality of the valves. (soft, hard, dense, fluffy)

On a number of occasions customers have concurred that revalving their instruments with thinner valves has given them a brighter sounding or instrument with more "cut".

A bit quicker response may also be a by product.

 

 

One repair persons opinion.

 

Greg

[Chris Ghent]

Oh dear, my working model is different. It seems to me while thinner reeds will generate volume quicker, a thicker reed is capable of a greater maximum volume, but needs more pressure on the bellows to get there. It will also have a better tone when playing louder. The most direct way to improve volume is to improve the seal between reed and frame at the closing point because compression is volume in the same way drag racers say compression is acceleration.

 

Chris