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The Quarry?


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#19 David Barnert

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Posted 29 May 2017 - 08:31 PM

I also suggest that the third line is in D Dorian, rather than in C.

 

That’s silly. It’s in D minor. There are no B’s (natural or flat) in the section, so without a B natural, there’s no reason to call it dorian rather than minor. Also, if it were really dorian, it would be unlikely to contain C# leading tones.



#20 Paul_Hardy

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 01:33 PM

That’s silly. It’s in D minor. There are noB’s (natural or flat) in the section, so without a B natural, there’s no reason to call it dorian rather than minor. Also, if it were really dorian, it would be unlikely to contain C# leading tones.

I defer to your deeper musical knowledge, but given that there are no Bb, why push the B part to Minor (Aeolian) rather than Dorian, given that the original tune had a key signature with no sharps or flats. Presumably you are suggesting that the original key signature is wrong and should be one flat?

 

Some folk musicians would freak out on seeing a flat key signature  :)



#21 David Barnert

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 04:22 PM

I defer to your deeper musical knowledge, but given that there are no Bb, why push the B part to Minor (Aeolian) rather than Dorian, given that the original tune had a key signature with no sharps or flats. Presumably you are suggesting that the original key signature is wrong and should be one flat?

 

Some folk musicians would freak out on seeing a flat key signature  :)

 

Those are perfectly good reasons to notate it with no sharps or flats in the key signature. That’s probably why whoever notated it did. But that doesn’t make it dorian. Those C#s give it away. No traditional tune in the dorian mode (either Irish or medieval) would have them. That’s strictly a D minor thing.



#22 Don Taylor

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 05:51 PM

Those are perfectly good reasons to notate it with no sharps or flats in the key signature. That’s probably why whoever notated it did. But that doesn’t make it dorian. Those C#s give it away. No traditional tune in the dorian mode (either Irish or medieval) would have them. That’s strictly a D minor thing.

Apropos of nothing really, but..

 

Those C#'s make it D harmonic minor and I thought that traditional tunes were never in that dastardly modern German(?) invention.

 

Cecil Sharp[*] said:

 

"Personally, I have never recovered an English folk tune in the minor mode, and very few have been recorded by other collectors.  Minor folk airs are, no doubt, Aeolian airs that have been modernised by the addition of a leading note."

 

Elsewhere he says that traditional English tunes do not modulate either (see P.59 of the same book) so this is probably a 'modern' tune or adaptation.
 
Don.
 
[*] See Page 60 of "The Folk Handbook" - you need to scroll down.



#23 David Barnert

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Posted 30 May 2017 - 06:44 PM

Those C#'s make it D harmonic minor and I thought that traditional tunes were never in that dastardly modern German(?) invention.


Without the Bb, it’s not necessarily harmonic minor. It could be melodic minor.
 

Cecil Sharp said:
 
"Personally, I have never recovered an English folk tune in the minor mode, and very few have been recorded by other collectors.  Minor folk airs are, no doubt, Aeolian airs that have been modernised by the addition of a leading note."


Well, I guess Sharp never heard "Coleraine" or "Greensleeves."






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