Learning (& Teaching)

[JimLucas]

Learning (and teaching) is one discussion area which doesn't have a separate Forum, but I think it should, rather than being lost among the General Discussion or incidental continuations within History, Buy & Sell, or even Repairs.

 

As I envision it, this Forum would be about teaching materials, teachers, methods, and playing techniques, but also such things as keyboard layouts and other things that one might associate with what to play and how to play it.

 

Rather than making this a poll, I'm hoping Paul will agree with me and just create such a Forum.

 

But it would be nice to hear that others support the idea (and educational if I discover that they don't).

[Ken_Coles]

Well, if it is any help, the idea sounds good to me. We have a Learning page in the original part of C.net, so it has seniority as a major topic. I could do it, but will wait to hear from the Boss!

[Chris Timson]

Hmm, I can see pros and cons, especially as proposed. Much of what is suggested as the remit of the new forum is part of the meat and drink of the general forum. I can see the advantage of keeping everything concerned with teaching and learning together, but wonder what will be left in the General forum if every topic that becomes popular is strippd out into its own forum. Maybe the granularity will be too fine.

 

Fo example I wouldn't necessarily associate keyboard layouts as part of learning. It's one of the great prennial topics for anglo players of whatever skill level.

 

Chris

[JimLucas]

Hmm, I can see pros and cons, especially as proposed. Much of what is suggested as the remit of the new forum is part of the meat and drink of the general forum.

Precisely. The General forum has nearly 6 times as many Topics and 7 times as many posts as the next nearest contender. Musical preferences, howling puppies, linguistic improvisation, and general foolishness are blended with such Topics as "How Many Buttons", "Playing With Drones", "What Are They Using?", and "English Fingering", each of which I would consider learning-related.

I can see the advantage of keeping everything concerned with teaching and learning together, but wonder what will be left in the General forum if every topic that becomes popular is strippd out into its own forum.

As noted above, that hasn't happened, nor does it appear likely to, and there should still be plenty left. But if "Tedrow Tour 2003" and "Ergonomics" deserve separate Forums, then surely something as fundamental as "Learning" should. In fact, I think "Ergonomics" should be just one sub-topic under the why, what, and how of learning to play music on concertinas.

For example I wouldn't necessarily associate keyboard layouts as part of learning. It's one of the great perennial topics for anglo players of whatever skill level.

If anyone feels they have reached a skill level where there's nothing for them to learn, I think they should have their instrument(s) taken away! No, Chris, I think that's a red herring, albeit unintentional.

 

Keyboard layouts are fundamental. Whether it's English versus Maccann or low A on the pull (on a C/G anglo), it is a what that affects how we play, which is what we learn.

 

So I stand behind my proposal.

 

P.S. The particular item that prompted me to make my proposal was Jeffries duets. If I wanted to look for a teacher, which Forum should I use? If I wanted to start a campaign to promote the Jeffries duet, or to discuss its pros and cons, where should I go? If I started a discussion in the General forum, and it was inactive for a week or two, would I ever be able to find it again? (In the General forum there are currently 20 pages just of Topic titles! And the Search frequently fails to find text which is there.) I finally concluded that a broad intrpretation of "learning" could indeed cover all I wanted, without requiring separate Forums for, e.g., "Jeffries Duet", "Variant Anglo Layouts", and "English Preference", or "Promoting Specific Types of Concertina", etc. That would indeed be "too much granularity".

 

But even if the bulk of concertina.net members didn't agree with my broad interpretation of "learning", I still think it's a subject which deserves its own Forum, maybe even the subject which most deserves its own Forum.

[Chris Timson]

I don't have a major problem with the learning forum, but I wanted to make sure the remit is fully thought through, which I think is now probably true.

 

I believe your point about people reaching a skill level where they have nothing to learn is also a red herring. Of course we all have lots to learn, and apples fall to the ground when you drop them. But saying keyboard layouts (for example) belong with learning because discussing alternatives is a form of learning is not dissimilar to the horse music argument that lost us any useful meaning to the word "folk".

 

Chris

[JimLucas]

But saying keyboard layouts (for example) belong with learning because discussing alternatives is a form of learning is not dissimilar to the horse music argument that lost us any useful meaning to the word "folk".

That may be, but it's not really what I meant. I said (or at least meant) that discussing keyboards is in one respect discussing what to learn. Also, particular fingering (and on an anglo, directional) recommendations are highly dependent on the details of one's keyboard layout, and I certainly consider that to be an aspect of "learning".

 

At issue perhaps is whether it is more reasonable to discuss something as specific as anglo keyboard layouts under "General" than under "Learning", but that will ultimately be a personal choice (if "Learning" becomes an option). There are various items and discussions that have appeared in what I would consider the wrong Forum, e.g., items in Buy & Sell, Construction & Repair, and General which I feel are clearly "History". It happens. There's no enforcement.

 

But where to put keyboard layouts isn't the point. The point (my point) is whether there should be a separate Forum labelled "Learning", and I think there should. I think it's general enough to have enough activity to warrant its own Forum, yet not so general as to be meaningless. I'm fairly certain that more concertina.net members are involved in learning than in construction & repair, and that has its own Forum.

 

Well, it's not up to us to decide. And unless somebody else wants to join in this discussion, I think we may as well wait and see what happens.

[dbowers]

I, for one, strongly support the notion of a "Learning" topic. I tend to like fine granularity. It makes it easier to find information and it let's me skip areas that I have no interest in.

[Chris Timson]

For the avoidance of doubt, since Jim, for one, seems to have got the idea that I oppose the formation of a learning forum: I don't. I merely sought clarity in the remit.

 

Chris

[Samantha]

I think Jim has a point and that there is sufficient traffic and interest in learning to merit it geting its own forum. As Jim said, there will always multiple or inapposite posting to different forums, but it would give people looking for specific learning information a good place to start.

 

Samantha

[Samantha]

Post removed by Samantha as erroneous.

Edited December 3, 2003 by Samantha