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Tango On An Alto-Aeola Concertina

Concertina Aeola Tango

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#19 Pete Dunk

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:14 PM

That's what I like to have for breakfast...  :D

 

This is thread drift on a grand scale I must say but this is what floats my boat, along with a good hornpipe. Sadly the Tango has little appeal.  :(



#20 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 27 March 2013 - 05:37 PM

That's what I like to have for breakfast...  :D

 

This is thread drift on a grand scale I must say but this is what floats my boat, along with a good hornpipe. Sadly the Tango has little appeal.  :(

 

O.k. (and horray tor the Prof.!), then you won't mind me drawing this card...  :)

 

(which might however kind of close a circle whilst the Tango player (i.e. Conzertino) had recently organized a meeting where it was to be heard as well!)

 

P.S.: In Germany we have the saying of "verschlimmbessern" (for your "improve sth. worse") - but I said what I said and I meant what I meant!  B)


Edited by blue eyed sailor, 28 March 2013 - 03:18 AM.


#21 ceemonster

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 03:52 PM

arranging tango on EC or duet has a huge appeal to me, same for parisian bal musette and klezmer or Rom---but accordion-reeded. i really don't care for the sound of these genres on concertina-reeded instruments.  of course they are the most dynamically expressive (and it comes across in this lovely alto-ec clip), but the timbre and personality of the concertina-reeded voice is not IMHO optimally matched to tango, musette, klezmer. 

 

in terms of getting that tango ooomph and lift on an EC---seems to me one has to be very artful. sleight-of-arrangement, one might say.  why? because near-continuous, repetitive vamping beneath the melody line throughout the dance, done at just the right staccato calibration particular and authentic to the genre, is what gives tango (that is, tango dance music as opposed to the arty, chromatic tango-nuevo compositions of Piazzola, which are art music, not folk-dance music), that movement and rhythm.  on EC,  continuous bass-vamping throughout an entire melodic line is extremely difficult to do. 

 

if you listen carefully to recordings by some of the players who are often cited as, "showing you CAN do bass chords for EC dance playing!"---you will find that they are in fact not doing continuous bass vamping beneath the melody.  rather, they are doing very artful, strategically placed bass chords that are by no means continous, but fill in the spaces where melodic phrases leave a gap, and then throw in a chord or two here and there that is in tandem with the melody at a well-chosen spot on the off-or-on-beat (depending on the dance genre)  to swing it along. 

 

or, one could tango on a duet....


Edited by ceemonster, 28 March 2013 - 03:53 PM.


#22 SteveS

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 05:41 PM

Time to dust off some of my old Finnish tangos on EC.



#23 Pete Dunk

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Posted 28 March 2013 - 06:43 PM

O.k. (and horray tor the Prof.!), then you won't mind me drawing this card...  :)

 

It looks as if you had a great weekend. Sad to say that whilst I acknowledge Simon Thoumire's great technical skill the performance leaves me absolutely cold. I'm sure that's my loss and no reflection on his abilities, just one of my quirks. Ali Anderson does it for me every time as a workshop tutor, hugely talented composer of exquisite tunes combined with boundless enthusiasm for whatever he is playing or teaching. That said I'd sign up straight away for a workshop with Danny Chapman because I'm convinced he's a laid back second (or third) generation folk revival serious musician with a love of simple, beautiful, melodies who delights in extracting everything they have to offer.

 

 

P.S.: In Germany we have the saying of "verschlimmbessern" (for your "improve sth. worse") - but I said what I said and I meant what I meant!   B)

 

 

Does this mean there is a Yorkshire enclave in Bavaria?  :o 



#24 Anglo-Irishman

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Posted 18 April 2013 - 04:11 PM

I suppose this is a concertina player playing for concertina minded folk, but as far as Tango goes, I think the performance can be greatly improved by adding the accent, or snap, that Tango music is famous for.  The entirely legato sound of this performance lacks the tango rhythm, retaining only its melody, and thus, falls short in that way.  I don't think Tango dancers would like to dance to it.  It doesn't feel like a Tango.

Tom,

As conzertino admits in a later post, an EC is not a Bandoneon. Tango music as we know it has been formed by the Bandoneon. And, as conzertino points out, the Bandoneon is a diatonic instrument (and, being located in Germany, he's probably using the word "diatonic" in the German sense, which in a free-reed context means "push-pull" or "bisonoric").

 

All the points that you criticise have to do with phrasing, and phrasing is something that we diatonic (or, if you prefer, bisonoric) free-reeders always have to think very consciously about. We can't reverse the bellows just when we happen to run out of air. Changes are forced upon us, and these have to be either prepared for or circumvented. They cannot be ignored. Tango Bandoneonists like to play longish phrases on the draw only, and the large bellows and many alternative fingerings (a lot more than on a 30-b Anglo) permit this. However, the time must come when the Bandonoenist has to take a gulp of air, and this, despite the generous air-valve, interrupts the flow of the music. A continuous legato is just not possible, so you have to think of a more creative phrasing.

 

Not that an EC would not be capable of creative phrasing - but the EC player normally does not have to think too much about bellows changes, and therefore probably does not develop the same instinct for phrasing.

 

ITM players say that the Anglo gives their music a "lift" that the EC doesn't. Here again, a "diatonic" instrument has formed the free-reed side of a genre, and some "chromatic" players seem to have difficulty acquiring the "diatonician's" phrasing. :)

 

Cheers,

John



#25 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 19 April 2013 - 05:04 PM

Not that an EC would not be capable of creative phrasing - but the EC player normally does not have to think too much about bellows changes, and therefore probably does not develop the same instinct for phrasing.

 

As soon as the EC player is stretching to more or less "heavy" chording he will run out of air all too soon. So he will have to think about phrasing, in a "creative" way indeed. This necessity will increase whilst using a smaller instrument.

 

But of course I know what you are talking about specifically regarding the bi-sonoric experience from my own melodeon playing...



#26 ceemonster

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Posted 24 April 2013 - 07:36 PM

 [Here again, a "diatonic" instrument has formed the free-reed side of a genre, and some "chromatic" players seem to have difficulty acquiring the "diatonician's" phrasing.]

 

isn't it funny how players of such air-driven but unisonoric, non-"diatonic"  instruments as flute, whistle, and pipes play traditional music, including for dancers, all the time without a word of complaint from the "p.c. peanut gallery"  that they don't express or articulate air like bisonoric, er, "diatonic" instruments such as harmonicas or one-row melodeons?  makes you think there might be some blind spots involved in the "p.c." attitudes toward unisonoric free-reed instruments...


Edited by ceemonster, 24 April 2013 - 07:36 PM.


#27 Wolf Molkentin

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 05:35 AM



 [Here again, a "diatonic" instrument has formed the free-reed side of a genre, and some "chromatic" players seem to have difficulty acquiring the "diatonician's" phrasing.]

 

isn't it funny how players of such air-driven but unisonoric, non-"diatonic"  instruments as flute, whistle, and pipes play traditional music, including for dancers, all the time without a word of complaint from the "p.c. peanut gallery"  that they don't express or articulate air like bisonoric, er, "diatonic" instruments such as harmonicas or one-row melodeons?  makes you think there might be some blind spots involved in the "p.c." attitudes toward unisonoric free-reed instruments...

 

Well, there had obviously been a thing like Irish folk music prior to the introduction of any free-reed instrument (or even the invention of accordion, melodeon, concertina and the likes).

 

Even the fiddle has taken on its role not that early. OTOH the fiddlle shares at least one characteristic with the EC: the need and effect of bowing up and down is represented by bellow change.

 

Every limitation means a challenge, that will shape styles. This is all the more true with bi-sonoric instruments, and still more when they are played "across the rows".

 

Therefore the outcome of such a process shouldn't regarded as narrowing down the range of any music genre at all but offering new options for anyone. The ornamentation used by any folk musician will be influenced by difficulties regarding not just the instrument of his own choice.

 

We all rely upon these ties. Any closed-minded exclusion should be avoided and rejected IMO!


Edited by blue eyed sailor, 27 April 2013 - 05:43 AM.






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