Hot Rodding A Stagi

[ragtimer]

Well, you know, nothing posted on the internet ever truly dies. Just to prove a point, here's the stagi upgrade page, ala 2001, courtesy of The Wayback Machine:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20010727154028/...ewood.net/hmic/

Sure enough -- I revisited Bob Tedrow's "hot rodding" pages just a few days ago. On checking my link, it is indeed an archive link similar to the one quoted. The pages are missing a few of the photos, but all the text is intact.

 

FWIW, the buttons in the newer Stagi Hayden Duets will not just slide off the lever arms, since they plug into a guide frame below.

 

Also, I wonder why Bob replaced the pads? To reduce noise, or because the stock padds were apt to develop leaks or fall off after a while? Maybe I'm really wondering which part of my Stagi Hayden is going to feep out first? --Mike K.

[ragtimer]

Yes, in this modification the brass rods, widened at the inside end, simply rest on the levers. Len Rheaume did his Stagi up like this and let me try it, and it was a very worthwhile improvement in feel over the usual wobbly buttons. Still, Len moved up to another box (a Morse, I think) not long after.

I still wonder how one knows just how long to make the bushing tubes, so as to get the new buttons to just rest on the lever ends, without too much slack. The photo isn't clear to me, or maybe it's one of those now missing from the web archive.

 

Maybe you remove the original buttons, put the instrument back together, and insert a probe stick thru each button hole, and measure the distance from the end plate surface to the lever? That must be it -- else you'd have to discard and re-cut a lot of the bushing tubes.

If you're lucky, all the measurements will be within 1/32" or 1 mm and you don't have to make each bushing different.

 

BTW, I've worked with those stock brass, copper, and aluminum tubes before, and it is amazing how each size fits just right inside the next size up, for a good sliding fit. You can build a lot of precision movements cheap with these. But I wonder if anyone has ever had their "hot rod" buttons bind or seize up? I think Bob's concentric bushing design has brass against brass, with the Al tubing on the outside, glued to the wooden end plate.

 

When you take apart a hot-rodded 'tina, you better be careful to hold the end plate face down, or all the brass buttons will fall out, no?

 

I may just try this on my Hayden, a few buttons at a time. Maybe do the air key first. --Mike K.

Edited April 23, 2006 by ragtimer

[ragtimer]

I still wonder how one knows just how long to make the bushing tubes, so as to get the new buttons to just rest on the lever ends, without too much slack. The photo isn't clear to me, or maybe it's one of those now missing from the web archive.

 

Maybe you remove the original buttons, put the instrument back together, and insert a probe stick thru each button hole, and measure the distance from the end plate surface to the lever? That must be it -- else you'd have to discard and re-cut a lot of the bushing tubes.

If you're lucky, all the measurements will be within 1/32" or 1 mm and you don't have to make each bushing different.

OK, sorry, I just revisited the archive, and now that I knwo what to look for, I can see Bob using a depth gauge rule to do just that.

 

I'm glad to see that Bob has his buttons very low to the surface, unlike some "top end" 'tinas whose buttons stick way up. Personally, I like the button top to go down to the surface or nearly so (maybe not clear down to that metal bushing end).

 

Great rainy weekend project -- Mike K.

[ragtimer]

Great rainy weekend project -- Mike K.

Actually, I think I will not try this on my current Stagi, not even the air button.

 

From other posts and Bob Tedrow's photos, it appears that older Stagi buttons did not have a lower guide plate, and depended on the hole in the end plate to guide them. This would explain the crooked, poorly operating buttons I remember on an older Stagi I saw recently, and also explain Bob's words to the effect of "just slide the old buttons off the levers."

 

Newer Stagis, like my Hayden, have a lower guide plate of metal, similar in function to he wooden action block of a vintage instrument. Thus the buttons are guided at both ends and run true, and also can't fall off when the end plate is removed. At least I assume this is the newer action used in the Anglos on the Button Box's web pages.

 

I can see Bob's fix as almost a requirement on the older design, much less necessary now. FWIW, my end plate holes are somewhat larger than those he worked with -- probably because they no longer need to do all the guide work by themselves.

--Mike K.

[Shas Cho]

Well, you know, nothing posted on the internet ever truly dies. Just to prove a point, here's the stagi upgrade page, ala 2001, courtesy of The Wayback Machine:

 

http://web.archive.org/web/20010727154028/...ewood.net/hmic/

 

Ha!

Thanks, Roy, I was hunting for this today.

I agree with Ken's and Bill's words, too.

Bob has done a real service for those of us

who are saving up indefinitely to buy a Rochelle.

(ouch!)

[ceemonster]

i have been wondering if stagi would give a hand reed upgrade on their hayden the way they do (at least through a couple of distributors) on the english 48 and their english 56....

 

i have also been wondering if the tedrow haydens are all in the upper $4k range or just that amboyna one....i guess a metal-ended square one would be the same???

[darticus]

I have to make tubes for my W15 but where can I get tubing. Does any have a pic of what these buttons should look like after fixing. Mine seem to have tubes but maybe not the correct size as there is a lot of play in the buttons. Some buttons come up too high others normal. Is it the sides of the tube which keeps the button from coming up to high? Any help would be great. Thanks Ron

Edited October 13, 2016 by darticus

[Bill N]

Reread the link in my response to your "Button Repair of Replace" thread. The section entitled Button Sleeve Replacement has detailed information about what type of tubing you need. When I did this job on a Stagi I got my tubing at a hobby shop that sold remote control model airplanes and cars. Also, here is another thread:

 

http://www.concertina.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=13950

[Anglo-Irishman]

I had noticed that the buttons darticus shows are different from those in my Stagi. Mine have a slot in the flat, lower part; the action lever goes through this; and the elasticity of the rubber sleeve keeps the button upright and prevents it from sliding along the lever.

 

However, my Stagi has metal buttons, whereas darticus' are plastic. Also, my Stagi is metal-ended with only a felt bushing-board, whereas darticus' has a wood panel inside the ends. Could it be that the Stagi designers reckoned that a plastic button in a hole drilled in wood wouldn't need as much guidance as a button that is only guided by the thickness of the felt?

 

Interestingly, Bob tedrow's "souped-up" buttons only bear down on the action levers, without even a "fork" to align them - the alignment comes from the metal bushings.

 

Cheers,

John

[Patrick McMahon]

I bought another cheap one recently, and the buttons are not too bad.

It also has a wood panel glued to the metal end. On the first one I bought, you could see that the wood was quite worn on some buttons, and I was meaning to replace it and re-drill the holes.

 

On thing I noticed on this latest one, is that there are alloy guide plates, on either side of the fulcrum where each arm pivots.

Some of these seemed to allow a lot of play, and I bent them back so that they are fairly tight against the arm, and this reduced the play a lot.