Melodeons - G C F

[Helen]

Hiya,

 

I know zilch about melodeons. Can possibly buy a used melodeon - 3 rows - G C F, forget which order. Probably a dumb question, but what types of music could I play on it? I have a C G concertina, so I guess I could play whatever I play on the concertina plus tunes in F. Have probably played tunes in F, but can't think of any offhand.

 

Sorry if this is a useless topic, but I am pondering getting this melodeon. It is garish, so I'd be getting it for playability.

 

Thanks.

Helen

 

I like Irish, folk, a little klezmer music. Well, heck, I guess I like just about any music.

[Lester Bailey]

I know zilch about melodeons. Can possibly buy a used melodeon - 3 rows - G C F, forget which order.

Thats the right order G row lowest and F row highest

Probably a dumb question, but what types of music could I play on it?

Anything you like, but mostly used by the French on this side of the pond and for Conjunto/Tejano/Texmex/etc nearer home for you.

I have a C G concertina, so I guess I could play whatever I play on the concertina plus tunes in F.

The G and C row will be the opposite way round to the way they are on your concertina may/will really confuse you.

I like Irish, folk, a little klezmer music. Well, heck, I guess I like just about any music.

For Irish the accepted norm is to use a half step box (C/C# B/C C#/D) but I play some on my D/G melodeon

 

Hope this helps

[JimLucas]

I like Irish, folk, a little klezmer music. Well, heck, I guess I like just about any music.

For Irish the accepted norm is to use a half step box (C/C# B/C C#/D) but I play some on my D/G melodeon

I've known more than one Irishman who played traditional tunes on a D/G, and one who was famous for his reels and such on a 1-row D.

[Lester Bailey]

I like Irish, folk, a little klezmer music. Well, heck, I guess I like just about any music.

For Irish the accepted norm is to use a half step box (C/C# B/C C#/D) but I play some on my D/G melodeon

I've known more than one Irishman who played traditional tunes on a D/G, and one who was famous for his reels and such on a 1-row D.

I've known more than one Irishman who played traditional tunes on a D/G, and one who was famous for his reels and such on a 1-row D.

Couldn't agree more Jim, all I said was that the norm is a half step box. I play Morris on an English which is not the norm, but if you were to hear my team's band on Treble, Baritone and Bass Aeolas you might wonder why its not the norm

[Helen]

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

 

I have a B C melodeon (the correct term for a button accordion?) which I was going to use for Irish.

 

I think Jim, you were speaking of someone using a D G melodeon for Irish (since we were discussing melodeons, I thought you were also citing a melodeon, I just wanted to make sure).

 

Since I have the B C, would the G C F be an addition worth having?

 

Confusedly,

Helen

 

I realize this is a personal decision, just fact gathering from y'all.

[Helen]

Also, thanks for being so nice in answering a nonconcertina question.

 

By the way, Jim, I know I can use the B C for Irish, I wasn't thinking you were saying I should switch to a D something, I think D G. I was just clarifying that you were talking about a melodeon.

 

Actually I like that word melodeon, it's sorta mellifluous. Or something.

 

Again, thanks.

 

Helen

[JimLucas]

Actually I like that word melodeon, it's sorta mellifluous. Or something.

 

Well, the word "melodeon" means different things to different people. It's a name for a kind of reed organ. But when referring to accordions, it isn't normally applied to the half-step-separated ones like the B/C. In some circles (e.g., Morris) it means either a 1-row or one with rows separated by a fourth, like a D/G or a G/C/F. But in some other traditions (Swedish and some Irish, that I've heard of), it's reserved for the 1-row.

 

Since I have the B C, would the G C F be an addition worth having?

 

It probably won't give you any advantage in playing Irish music, at least not in sessions. If you do performing, you might find that it can do some things the B/C can't -- for chords, harmonies, and ornaments, -- but you'd have to develop your own style.

 

But if you want to go beyond Irish -- the current stuff that's labelled "traditional", -- I think you could find some interesting uses for it. But I suggest you get it only if it's in good playable condition, or you're likely to experieince more frustration than creativity.

[Lester Bailey]

Stop me when I get boring:

• one row 4 stop melodeon used for English and Irish music. The four stops allow the sounding of the four reeds per button, two on the octave, one an octave up and one an octave down. When slightly differntly tuned is also used for Cajun but not normally played in its home key but in its draw key (like a blues harmonica)
   
  
• 2 row tuned a fourth apart (D/G G/C A/D) called a melodeon in England, a Button Accordion in Ireland.
  
• 3 Row tuned a fourth apart (A/D/G G/C/F A/D/G) called a melodeon in England, a Button Accordion in Ireland. Also used for Zydeco etc
  
• 2 row tuned a half step apart (B/C C/C# C#/D) called a Button Accordion in Ireland and something unprintable in England.
  
• 3 row tuned a half step apart (B/C/C#) mostly know as a Shand Accordian as was developed by Jimmy Shand. Differs from most melodeons in having an accordion bass. Fairly rarely heard now adays as it is hard to play but Saint John Kirkpatrick in the prime exponent.
  
• This of course leaves out the various 2.5 row boxes, the Club variant, the box I met recently which was tuned D minor/G minor.
  

[JimLucas]

... the box I met recently which was tuned D minor/G minor.

Sounds interesting, though I think I've run into more music where D(major)/Gm would seem desirable. I'm thinking of chords, as well as the fact that you should then get both each of notes C/C#, F/F#, Bb/B, and Eb/E. But really, just speculating.

[Helen]

Thank you thank you.

 

Perhaps I should pass on the G C F. I was not thinking of getting it for Irish as I have the B C button box (see I can learn new terms). I was hoping to use it for different kinds of music, but I didn't know which types I could use it for (the reason for the posting.)

 

I played piano accordion as a very young child - which was a veeerrrry long time ago. Last month I started playing again and I really like it a lot. Perhaps I should stick with the piano accordion. I think it's comfortable because I remember the keyboard and the bases are pretty logical to me.

 

But I was intrigued by the G C F because it had some extra buttons and I thought it would be a funky instrument to use for something (hopefully). I guess I'm still undecided.

 

Thanks,

Helen

[Patrick Brown]

This talk about B/C for melodeons brings up a question I've had about anglo

concertinas. Having a row of C and B give a complete chromatic scale, right?

Why then, is this setup not popular for anglos? I don't think I have seen any

anglos setup this way. Why? Is it not good for anglo playing?

~Patrick

[JimLucas]

This talk about B/C for melodeons brings up a question I've had about anglo concertinas. ... Why..., is this setup not popular for anglos?

 

Inertia? Lack of demand?

 

This question comes up regularly. I've heard of a couple of anglos that were supposedly custom made on that design, but I've never seen one. I don't know of any maker offering it as a standard option. I suspect that for it to catch on would require at least one world-class player using such an instrument.

[David Barnert]

Regarding the terminology: melodeon vs. accordion.

 

As it was explained to me (and it seems to make sense), one- and two-row boxes were called melodeon because you could play melodies on them. When they (later) added the third row, you could play chords with the right hand, and so they called it accordeon (in French).

 

I have no doubt that the words are used differently in different regions now, but I expect the words had well-defined meanings when they were first used.

[A.D. Homan]

Regarding the terminology: melodeon vs. accordion.

 

As it was explained to me (and it seems to make sense), one- and two-row boxes were called melodeon because you could play melodies on them. When they (later) added the third row, you could play chords with the right hand, and so they called it accordeon (in French).

 

I have no doubt that the words are used differently in different regions now, but I expect the words had well-defined meanings when they were first used.

I agree that the explanation you heard (re: "accordion" vs. "melodeon") makes sense, but I don't think it's historically accurate.

Here's a link to a transcription of Demian's patent:

http://www.accordion-online.de/instrum/demian.htm

The instrument is called "Accordion" and reference is made to playing melodies AND chords. ("Accorde", modern German with "Akk.."). The instrument resembled in most respects what would today be called a one-row diatonic button accordion.

 

It is interesting to note that in contemporary German/Austrian usage, despite Demian's original name for the instrument, "accordion" (actually: Akkordeon) usually refers to piano accordions, whereas "Harmonika" and "Ziehharmonika" (there are other variations, too) refer to diatonic-bisonoric instruments.

I've never heard a German speaker use the term melodeon, which leads me to believe that it was a label put on certain instruments that must have been exported to England/Scotland/Ireland (since the term seems to be used there). Does the term get used in French, other than as a nod to the English designation? The term certainly causes some confusion because of the geographic differences that Dave mentioned above.

1. In the U.S., "melodeon" is sometimes used to refer to a kind of reed organ (what kind, specifically? all kinds?). The OED places the earliest use of the term (in this meaning) in the 1840's.

2. Among Irish players, it refers only to the one-row diatonic button accordion.

3. The English refer to all diatonic button accordions from one to three rows (as Lester noted above) as "melodeons." The OED places this use in the 1880's. However, two-row boxes with the rows tuned a semitone apart are sometimes called "button accordeons." {sic}

 

I prefer the third option: it is useful for distinguishing diatonic button accordions from other types of accordions. It is also a simple word that saves you from saying "{x}-row diatonic button accordion" when someone asks what it is (which happens a lot). You just say: "It's a melodeon" and if they are really interested and ask questions, then you can explain the difference between the melodeon and the usual suspects.

 

Here's a tidbit I found in the OED that I'm certain will amuse all you concertina enthusiasts:

1938 P. KAVANAGH Green Fool xx. 208: "Among the wedding-party there had been a melodeon but no melodeon-player. However, one of the boys pulled the music-box in and out and nobody minded the absence of harmony."

 

Whew, I hope that this long post (I rarely post here) causes more clarity than confusion!!!

Andy

(melodeon player -- very interested in concertinas, especially after hearing such lovely concertina playing at the Squeeze-In!!!)

[JimLucas]

Regarding the terminology: melodeon vs. accordion.

 

As it was explained to me (and it seems to make sense), one- and two-row boxes were called melodeon because you could play melodies on them. When they (later) added the third row, you could play chords with the right hand, and so they called it accordeon (in French).

An intriguing tale, but this is the first I've ever heard that particular explanation of the names.

 

It also makes me wonder whether the sequence shouldn't have been melodeon for a 1-row, harmonium for a 2-row, and 'chordion for a 3-row. Except that one *can* play a few entire chords in the right hand of even a 1-row.

[Jax]

If you're still interested in button accordions/melodeons, see my two online Web books:

• A Musician's Guide to the Tex-Mex Accordion / Acordeon Tejano / Acordeon Conjunto Norteño
  
• Musician's Guide to Club System Accordion
  

[Richard Morse]

Regarding the terminology: melodeon vs. accordion....

 

I have no doubt that the words are used differently in different regions now, but I expect the words had well-defined meanings when they were first used.

My hunch is that the word "melodeon" first came into existence fairly early on in our squeezebox history to differentiate between the emerging and diverging types of accordion.

 

The first accordion (as most people agree) was Demian's which was patented in 1929 and produced ONLY chords. Subsequent constructions of his instrument differed mainly due to the addition of more "claves" (or keys) to enable more chords to be played.

 

Only a couple of years after Demian presented his instrument, Pichenot Jeune (of Paris) produced a similarly-shaped rectangular instrument that he called "L'Accordion Français" (to differentiate it from the German accordion) though it was soon commonly referred to as the clavier "melodique" as it played single notes for each paddle-like key (or clavier), enabling it to play melodies. It was also referred to as a "flutina" possibly due to it's flute-like sound.

 

Subsequent constructions of the melodique featured treble-side chord drones, and then bass-side chord drones... which evolved into a low bass paddle and a higher-pitched chord paddle. It was at this time that the instrument was reconfigured to be played horizontally rather than vertically - and became our familiar button accordion.

 

I wonder if the word "melodeon" is the English version of the French "melodique"? Though the original melodique had only a single row, later models had more. Maybe this is partially where the idea that only a single row button accordion is a "melodeon" came from?

 

An interesting quirk to this tale is that the melodique was constructed similar to English concertinas - deep all-leather bellows, single reeds in single frames dovetailed into the soundboard... even though it was rectangular shaped after the German accordion. When the Germans started producing the "new" horizontal melodique, they used their ganged reedplate construction and continuous card bellows (as Demian's original accordion had) which seems to have become the standard design idiom for all subsequent accordions (piano, chromatic, and button) from then on.

[A.D. Homan]

The first accordion (as most people agree) was Demian's which was patented in 1929 and produced ONLY chords. Subsequent constructions of his instrument differed mainly due to the addition of more "claves" (or keys) to enable more chords to be played.

 

 

Hi Rich and others interested in the original patent,

I also heard somewhere that Demian's 1829 patent was for an instrument that created only chords, however I just re-read the patent and am now a bit puzzled.

The part of the patent that I read to inform my statements in the above post mentions "playing many well-known arias, melodies, and marches, etc." in "3, 4, or 5-voice harmony." The chords were therefore already perceived to be for playing a harmonized melody rather than only accompaniment. (p. 2 of the patent)

 

However, p. 4 of the patent (which I had not read before) already includes variations of the instrument in which both hands have a keyboard. The second keyboard can be fitted with either "single notes" or chords depending on the reed sets installed.

 

It might be a question of whether Demian actually built an accordion with this setup (for "single notes") -- did he build one like this? Or is the reason for the lore of the "accordion" only playing chords due to the first one actually being only the simple version described in the first few pages of the patent. (I'm puzzled about this.) At any rate, he did include a version of "accordion" (in the patent) with single notes on one side, chords on the other, the question is whether he built one.

 

By the way, the website I linked in the above post allows you to view scans of the original documents, and since this is the first time I viewed p. 4, I was delighted to see that the handwritten text of that page is written on the "bellows" in the diagram of the instrument.

 

Here's the link again:

http://www.accordion-online.de/instrum/demian.htm

For those who don't read German, the green links on the page bring you to the scans of the original documents.

Andy