Optimum Number Of Bellows Folds?

[Dazbo]

I've tried a search and not found a topic like this one so apologies if I'm starting a thread that has been done to death already.

 

I've come (back) to the concertina from the melodeon where the number of bellows on a box doesn't seem to be a variable. My English Jones has got five fold bellows which, as a beginner, I find doesn't yet cause a problem as it doesn't matter which direction the bellows are moving and I'm generally using only one button at a time. On an Anglo, the direction of the bellows does make a difference so that unless you have a lot of reversal buttons not having enough folds for your bellows can cause major problems. Duets, having the benefit of not worrying about which way the bellows are going does, potentially, have the problem of much larger air usage than the English so would need more folds to get less changes in bellows direction and better phrasing of the music. Finally Chemnitzer/Bandonion seem to go down the melodeon route of as many folds as can practically be used - I presume also because they tend not to be single voiced but have three or four voices.

 

So what do you think are the optimum number of bellows folds for a concertina? Obviously this must depend on the type of concertina (English, Anglo and Duet), the type of music played and the style it is played in and the more practical considerations like the extra cost and weight of more folds in your bellows. What are your thoughts and why?

[PeterT]

I've tried a search and not found a topic like this one so apologies if I'm starting a thread that has been done to death already.

 

So what do you think are the optimum number of bellows folds for a concertina? Obviously this must depend on the type of concertina (English, Anglo and Duet), the type of music played and the style it is played in and the more practical considerations like the extra cost and weight of more folds in your bellows. What are your thoughts and why?

 

Hi Darren,

 

As your last comment indicates, this topic should have a good pair of legs!

 

Yes, it's all to do with the type of music, playing style, technique, and also the size and quality of the instrument.

 

I don't think that there can be any "rules". Playing is more art than science.

 

I'll give examples relating to Anglo:

 

I play a standard size C/G Wheatstone, with six-fold bellows. It has been used variously for concerts, recordings, sessions, morris. In fact everything except Irish music. It would be a first rate Irish box. But I have good bellows/air button control (even in sessions, the bellows do not move much) and don't ever see the need for more than six-fold bellows.

 

I see from the notes, on Anglo International, that Chris Sherburn uses a Wheatstone C/G with four-fold bellows. Now what does that tell us about his bellows control?

 

Many other players "must" have seven-fold bellows on a C/G. I can understand it on a G/D, since the reeds may not speak as quickly, and if the instrument is used for morris playing, loud playing will be essential in some circumstances. I guess that it's a bit like "belt and braces"; good knowing that the extra fold is there, "just in case".

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Richard Morse]

There is a surpisingly large amount of stuff considered when matching a squeezebox to a set of bellows. Variations include the cross sectional size, number of sides, number of folds, depths of the folds, manner of construction, materials, and - of course - expense. Have I left anything out? All these affect the performance and durability of the bellows.

 

In general the better the instrument, the better the bellows is designed for it. But without going into great detail, PA's and CA's dont need many bellows folds (generally having about 16) as they are large and bisonoric. BA's tend to be a bit smaller and need more folds (usually 18) both because of their size and due to being unisonoric. Bandoneons and Chemnitzers are usually played primarily on the PULL which means they a huge amount of bellows and a monster air dump.

 

Concertinas (the kind we play) need fewer folds partly because less reeds are sounding at once (than typical accordions), the folds are more flexible (can exend more for more volume) and deeper (again aiding in extension).

 

As Englishes are bisonoric and generally have only a couple of so reeds going at once 5 folds is often adequate (earlier boxes had only 4), and rarely had more than 6. The folds were relatively shallow at about 1" and construction tended to be fairly think which results in controlled and even movement.

 

Duets are similar but with more reeds going at once meant more folds - generally 6 to 8 folds. I've seen some with as many as 10 folds.

 

Anglos being unisonoric typically have deeper folds, are more robust of construction yet are very flexible. Getting all of that to work out is a real art as stiffer is not as responsive, more folds tends to mean less control, and finer (thinner) construction is often not durable enough. So anglos tend to have 6 or 7 deeper (1 1/8" to 1 1/4") folds. Also it is very rare to see anglos with more than 6 sides as the more sides one gets the more it is susceptable to imploding (folded plate theory stuff).

 

Of course there are a lot of exceptions... like the South African anglos typically having 8 folds (and sometimes more) but that is due to there style of "wobbling" (or whatever they call it?) the bellows for a tremolo type effect.

 

So what do you think are the optimum number of bellows folds for a concertina?

Pretty much as has evolved. Deviations seem to be due to specific and unusual requirements or due to cost considerations (to make them less expensively) which affected the number of folds (and other characteristics). Just *my* thoughts....

[Paul Read]

To throw in another variable, I think with anglos it also depends on the type of music. For Irish 6-folds is probably ideal. For English style where you're chording I think the extra fols would be optimum. Above that you're just losing control (excluding the South African style)

[Frank Edgley]

Richard has pretty well covered it as far as types of concertinas and accordions and pitches of instruments. However, within any given type of concertina, reed response and sensitivity are important as well as style of playing. Obviously, if your style involve lots of chords, and especially if you are playing slower music, a larger capacity bellows is desirable. If you concertina has very sensitive reeds, it will sound with less air, and a larger capacity bellows is not as important. Gearoid OhAllmuirhain was playing one of his Jeffries a number of years ago, and when I had a look at it I noticed there was a hole in one of the corners that you could "drive a truck through." It didn't affect his playing, and, in fact he was unaware that it was even there.

[Mark Evans]

Obviously, if your style involve lots of chords, and especially if you are playing slower music, a larger capacity bellows is desirable. If you concertina has very sensitive reeds, it will sound with less air, and a larger capacity bellows is not as important.

 

Oh yes. I use drones in song accompanyment and in selected dance tunes and laments. My Albion is a love of an instrument but the accordion reeds drink up a lot more air to sustain long passages. I need all the bellows I've got and then some. There are moments in a song where a bellows direction change can ruin the whole line. If my focus lags just for a moment, I' cooked.

Edited March 8, 2006 by Mark Evans

[JimLucas]

One "last" point: If you think your bellows doesn't have enough folds, first make sure the fault isn't internal leakage.

 

Sometimes new pads, valves, and possibly shimming around the reed pan can be worth one, two, or even three extra bellows folds, and you get a more responsive instrument in the bargain.

[Dazbo]

Thanks for all the comments so far, very interesting. I hadn't noticed that Anglos had deeper folds.

 

I hadn't thought about the different type and quality of reeds. Do even the best accordion reeds require more air than the traditional concertina reeds for the same note or is it not that simple (I guess it wouldn't be)?

[malcolm clapp]

I was very happy with my C/G Morse Ceili with 6 fold bellows, but my G/D Ceili seems to use that little bit more air and a 7 fold bellows would imho optimise that concertina.

 

Are extra bellows folds an available option on new instruments, Rich?

 

MC

[Frank Edgley]

DAZBO: "Do even the best accordion reeds require more air than the traditional concertina reeds for the same note or is it not that simple (I guess it wouldn't be)?"

FRANK:

You're right. It's not that simple. There are concertina reeds and then there are concertina reeds. As well, there are accordion reeds and then there are accordion reeds. The tolerances of the best handmade accordion reeds are as good as the best concertina reeds. Generally, accordion reeds tend to be thicker than concertina reeds, but this does not need to be. Accordion reeds can be made thinner, also. The design of the slot can be a factor. Concertina reeds can have a tapered slot whereas the accordion reeds can achieve similar results by the taper of the reed tongues.

[Chris Ghent]

The design of the slot can be a factor. Concertina reeds can have a tapered slot whereas the accordion reeds can achieve similar results by the taper of the reed tongues.

 

Any chance of more detail on this Frank..?

 

Chris

[Dirge]

I was very happy with my C/G Morse Ceili with 6 fold bellows, but my G/D Ceili seems to use that little bit more air and a 7 fold bellows would imho optimise that concertina.

 

Are extra bellows folds an available option on new instruments, Rich?

 

MC

It's volume that's the key not just bellows length; by increasing the cross section of the bellows you reduce the distance the bellows must travel to produce the same draught; alternatively you allow larger chords to be played for the same movement (hence larger bellows in a duet are not just a matter of fitting the works in). You also increase the leverage required, so playing a larger instrument should be more work (I think; not so sure about that). But what I thought (and this may be a duet player showing his ignorance) is that it's only you anglo folk who really worry about this, the rest of us can slip in a sneaky direction change and we're away again. SO why don't anglos get built with larger end and bellows X section? Surely reducing and slowing the pumping movement would increase stability for accurate playing? And finally, if the concern is to keep the weight of the ends down (not convinced; all sorts of concertina need to change bellows direction quickly) why not have bellows with the corrugations sticking out instead of in? Small ends with big bellows? (Yes I know it might look strange, and you might need a neck strap)

[cnrobinson]

I have to say that I find 5 fold bellows on an english a problem, in that you have to change dirrection during a bar rather than after (between) them. This must be the same for duets. Just like singing, taking a breath during a phrase breaks it up. You need enough air to get to the end of the line!

 

I am useless on the anglo but when I have played around on them I have found that some tunes require more pull than push, or vice versa, leading to the use of the air button. 6 or 7 fold bellows seem to me to be the minimum requirement (though I have to say again that my anglo playing is basic to say the least!).

 

Chris

[Mark Evans]

I have to say that I find 5 fold bellows on an english a problem, in that you have to change dirrection during a bar rather than after (between) them. This must be the same for duets. Just like singing, taking a breath during a phrase breaks it up. You need enough air to get to the end of the line!

 

Chris

 

I can't speak to a five fold bellows having never played one, but can see that could be problematical. One thought about singing which I have come to embrace:

 

A good friend of mine who makes her daily bread singing Handel, breathes where she pleases. She got tired of turning blue in the face trying to get through a roulade on one breath. She now takes a breath and uses it to dramitic effect! It is very thrilling and unexpected.

 

I see breathing as punctuation. Insert some punctuation in the line befor the bar ...might work...might not.

 

My earlier comment about accordion reeds drinking up air is perhaps misleading. Most of my drones are on lower or mid-range notes on a treble EC at a slower tempo and lower volume level. That burns up more air anyway (concertina and singing). The problem with my instrument is restarting a drone after a bellows change at low volume levels. If I am too gentle the reed can fail to speak when I wish . When cranking along at dance speeds and volume levels I have no problems with my hybrid.

Edited March 9, 2006 by Mark Evans

[PeterT]

I have to say that I find 5 fold bellows on an english a problem, in that you have to change dirrection during a bar rather than after (between) them.

 

Chris,

 

Which make of English do you have, and is it in good mechanical condition?

Also, do you play melody/chords or just single line melody?

 

Regards,

Peter.

[Larry Stout]

I have two Wheatstone EC's, one with four fold bellows, one with five. I have no trouble running out of air on th five fold, but have had some trouble with four--though that may be because of the leaks whicn are now off being fixed! The smaller bellows on the older instrument does require more frequent change of direction. The bigger issue for me has been the absence of an air button on the 4 fold-- you need to plan ahead to end the tune with the bellows closed.

[cnrobinson]

Peter,

 

I have tried several different concertinas with 5 fold bellows including Wheatstones, Lachenal (both hex and edeophone) and Jones. Personally I play a Crabb octaganel with a 6 fold bellows and find the extra air gives me more control over where I change direction.

 

Chris

[hjcjones]

It's not simply the number of bellows folds, it's more complicated than that. So much will depend on the quality of the bellows, the quality of the reeds, and the style of playing. My previous anglo ( a Lachenal) had 7-fold bellows (in good condition), but I had more air problems with that than with my current Crabb, which has only 6 folds but seems to have better bellows volume and more "stretch".

 

My large-bodied F/C (I'm told it's not technically a baritone, although it's the same size as one - see the "baritone anglo" thread) has only 5 folds, and needs careful handling!

 

Whatever the size of the bellows, sooner or later on an anglo you're going to hit a problem. It comes down to working out a balance between bellows direction, melody and chord fingerings, and careful use of the air button. Personally, I find I'm riding the air button almost constantly in order to balance the air requirements, gaining or losing small amounts of air at the same time as I'm playing notes, rather than making huge gasps between phrases.