shelly0312 Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I am not entirely sure I will tackle this on my own, but I thought I'd ask: I have two faceplate edge bolt/screws that are broken; with the ends still intact in the bolt holes. How do you remove these tiny bits before beginning the process for finding replacement bolts? I have seen broken screw removal systems for regular size household screws--but these are so tiny and seated in such fragile wood. What do the "Masters" do for removal? Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 There are a couple of different inset nut designs. What age manufacturer serial number are we talking about? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Pierceall Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 I am not entirely sure I will tackle this on my own, but I thought I'd ask: I have two faceplate edge bolt/screws that are broken; with the ends still intact in the bolt holes. How do you remove these tiny bits before beginning the process for finding replacement bolts? I have seen broken screw removal systems for regular size household screws--but these are so tiny and seated in such fragile wood. What do the "Masters" do for removal? Thanks in advance. There are specially designed screw extractors, one of which involves drilling a small pilot hole in the center of the broken end and then inserting a bit that rotates counter-clockwise to grab onto the end of the screw. It can be exacting and difficult depending on the size of the screw and location. If the screw is broken due to corrosion, even a screw extractor may not work, in which case, major surgery is involved. There are demos of how the process works on Youtube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelly0312 Posted May 1, 2015 Author Share Posted May 1, 2015 (edited) ....it is my Wheatstone TED (tenor extended down) #35637 mid-50s era. I sort of know about those extractors but to they make them that tiny also??? My eyes are bleeding right now. And thinking back I think I did this myself....auuuugh. Fortunately, I put the box back together and it is actually airtight (for the time being)--it must be some pretty good chamois (??), and immediately wrote Greg J. Now the second question is how much time do you think I have before the pan would start to develop warps? The two not engaged face bolts are exactly opposite each other..... Edited May 1, 2015 by shelly0312 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted May 1, 2015 Share Posted May 1, 2015 ....it is my Wheatstone TED (tenor extended down) #35637 mid-50s era. I sort of know about those extractors but to they make them that tiny also??? My eyes are bleeding right now. And thinking back I think I did this myself....auuuugh. Fortunately, I put the box back together and it is actually airtight (for the time being)--it must be some pretty good chamois (??), and immediately wrote Greg J. Now the second question is how much time do you think I have before the pan would start to develop warps? The two not engaged face bolts are exactly opposite each other..... I wouldn't worry about warping over a few days or even weeks unless you're storing it in a sauna. I think it should be possible to carefully lift the chamois to expose and extract the "nut" that the bolt screws into (The ones I've done had two small screws holding the nut into the bellows frame.). Then you could draw out the broken end from the "under" side, basically screwing it through the nut. Then replace the nut and the chamois, and you're ready to screw in a new end bolt. But note: If Dave Elliott contradicts anything in what I've just said, believe him. He has much more experience than I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted May 2, 2015 Share Posted May 2, 2015 It's ok Jim. I would have said exactly the same.thanks for doing my typing for me. Shelly, if you are sending the tina to Greg then we need go no further. If you are doing the job yourself,you will need more details. No.you don't get stud extractors that small, if you can't wind the broken thread put you need to drill the screw out without damaging the thread. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david robertson Posted May 3, 2015 Share Posted May 3, 2015 As everyone says, you need to lift the chamois seal to reveal the threaded plate which is screwed into the edge of the bellows frame. Just to make this quite clear, you should lift the chamois from its inner edge, not the edge that faces outward. This latter edge is tucked under the black leather binding,and you should try not to disturb it. It can be difficult to lift the edge of the chamois and prise it up - I have a bodging tool designed specifically for the job. It consists of an old teaspoon with the last half inch of the handle bent to a right angle and ground to a blunt edge. This can be insinuated under the chamois and used to pry it up. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rikki Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Would the Stewmac guitar screw removal kits do the job? http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Routers_and_Bits/Bits/Guitar_Screw_Rescue_Kit.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex West Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Rikki It might "just" work on endbolt screws that screw directly into the wood and I've done something similar on an old 20 key Nickolds . I can't remember but I think that those screws were a larger diameter even than 3/32" which is the maximum diameter of the Stewmac device. It won't work on the Jeffries/Crabb/Wheatstone type of bolt which screw into a brass "nut". Underneath the nut is a clearance hole so the problem is at the brass "nut", not in the wood itself Alex West Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoffrey Crabb Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 Would the Stewmac guitar screw removal kits do the job? http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Routers_and_Bits/Bits/Guitar_Screw_Rescue_Kit.html No, that is designed for the removal of wood screw ends, broken flush with the wood surface. Geoffrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelly0312 Posted May 4, 2015 Author Share Posted May 4, 2015 ...I guess I need to look again; but I think these bolts do screw right into the wood, no inset metal cuff receiver for the screw. So with that Stew-Mac screw rescue kit you must have to leave the tina open for a day or two as glued plug drys? Then I get into the worries of the action box changing shape? or is that only a concern if you take out the reed pan? and do you remove reed pan doing such work just to eliminate any possibility of damage?? snort. I see a phone call to Greg J gaining more substance...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Pierceall Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 (edited) ...I guess I need to look again; but I think these bolts do screw right into the wood, no inset metal cuff receiver for the screw. So with that Stew-Mac screw rescue kit you must have to leave the tina open for a day or two as glued plug drys? Then I get into the worries of the action box changing shape? or is that only a concern if you take out the reed pan? and do you remove reed pan doing such work just to eliminate any possibility of damage?? snort. I see a phone call to Greg J gaining more substance...... First find out whether your concertina has machine screws or wood screws, but in either case, some skill is involved in solving the problem without damaging the concertina. The problem cannot be solved without taking off the ends and, to be safe, the reed pans. I would personally be more concerned about deflection from ends that were missing screws than from warpage from disassembly. In your area there are probably a number of qualified "bellows-driven" repair persons. Edited May 4, 2015 by Mike Pierceall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted May 4, 2015 Share Posted May 4, 2015 ...I guess I need to look again; but I think these bolts do screw right into the wood, no inset metal cuff receiver for the screw. So with that Stew-Mac screw rescue kit you must have to leave the tina open for a day or two as glued plug drys? Then I get into the worries of the action box changing shape? or is that only a concern if you take out the reed pan? and do you remove reed pan doing such work just to eliminate any possibility of damage?? snort. I see a phone call to Greg J gaining more substance...... First find out whether your concertina has machine screws or wood screws, but in either case, some skill is involved in solving the problem without damaging the concertina. The problem cannot be solved without taking off the ends and, to be safe, the reed pans. I would personally be more concerned about deflection from ends that were missing screws than from warpage from disassembly. In your area there are probably a number of qualified "bellows-driven" repair persons. Simple test: Look at the "screws" that aren't broken. If the threaded part of the shaft is cylindrical (has straight sides), then it's meant to screw into a metal nut. If that section is tapered (probably to a point), then it's meant to screw directly into the wood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 come on chaps, shelly has said it's a Wheatstone 35,000 series tenor treble. You know you are dealing with an inset brass nut recessed into the belows frame wall mating face, under the leather gasketing. It is a standard feature. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Pierceall Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 come on chaps, shelly has said it's a Wheatstone 35,000 series tenor treble. You know you are dealing with an inset brass nut recessed into the belows frame wall mating face, under the leather gasketing. It is a standard feature. Dave What confuses me is that Shelly said that there is no "inset metal cuff receiver" for the screw. It wouldn't be the first time that someone has jammed a wood screw into the end of a concertina. Some photos would certainly clear this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimLucas Posted May 5, 2015 Share Posted May 5, 2015 come on chaps, shelly has said it's a Wheatstone 35,000 series tenor treble. You know you are dealing with an inset brass nut recessed into the belows frame wall mating face, under the leather gasketing. It is a standard feature. What confuses me is that Shelly said that there is no "inset metal cuff receiver" for the screw. It wouldn't be the first time that someone has jammed a wood screw into the end of a concertina. Some photos would certainly clear this up. I suspect she said that because it wasn't exposed. It gets covered over by the chamois/leather that lines the edge of the bellows end, so only the hole for the bolt/screw is visible. That's why we advised that this lining needs to be lifted in order to expose the inset "nut". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
d.elliott Posted May 6, 2015 Share Posted May 6, 2015 Exactly so Jim, except on that period of instrument I suspect that the gasket may not be chamois, but dark suede like leather. This would make seeing the nut even more difficult Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shelly0312 Posted May 10, 2015 Author Share Posted May 10, 2015 ......sorry folks, had a bigger fish to fry; bad busted ankle, surgery; elevation issues are limiting my tina play or thoughts of repair. give me a month...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now