Singing With English Concertina

[greenferry]

I am trying to decide on what kind of concertina to buy, one that goes well with singing. I really like the looks and sound of the Morse treble English. I'm not an expert, and I was wondering if this one would be okay if I want to sing with it (I have a mid-soprano/high alto voice). Should I be considering an Anglo instead? Would a baritone be better for singing with? I read somewhere that some types are not as good if you want to sing with them, and I'm not sure why that would be. What can you tell me about the best types of concertina for singing? I also read somewhere else that singers usually pick a baritone because it's lower-pitched than their voice, and doesn't overwhelm the voice part; but I am assuming that this would be relevant for a tenor or baritone voice. Would a treble concertina be all right for a higher-pitched voice? I hope this question isn't too dumb! I'm just a beginner! Thanks!!

[Chris Timson]

Both English and anglo concertinas have strengths when it comes to song accompaniment, as do duet concertinas as well. Unfortunately you can't pick a system on purely theoretical grounds. What you really want to do is get your hands on other people's concertinas and play around with them and see which system you feel most comfortable with. Once you've done that then you will find a way of playing the music you want to play on it.

 

As for baritones, I love baritones for song accompaniment. I have a specially made C/G baritone anglo for song accompaniment, and my partner Anne uses a baritone English similarly. For me, it isn't a case of relative ranges, though you will hear that said (and I'm not disagreeing with it here, I'm just expresing a view), it's more that somehow that low reasonant sound is amazingly flattering to the human voice. When you're singing with one it feels like a cushion supporting and carrying your voice. Lovely instruments!

 

Chris

[greenferry]

... low reasonant sound is amazingly flattering to the human voice. When you're singing with one it feels like a cushion supporting and carrying your voice. Lovely instruments! -- Chris

 

Chris thanks for your speedy response. I've been listening to Ian Robb just now, and his lovely voice certainly sounds glorious with the baritone concertina!

 

If anyone else has illumination on this, please write back!! Thanks again, Chris!

Edited November 30, 2005 by greenferry

[Mark Evans]

Chris has given you very sound advice in my opinion. I own an Albion treble and sing with it all the time. Your fears on a treble voice being overwhelmed depend on the singer's vocal tember and projection, the player's control of the instrument and the type of voicing choosen for accompaniment.

 

As an accordion reeded instrument, the Albion is all on or off while it is new. In my case, that has required me having my mind in the business of how I handle the bellows for as you may have noticed the Albion has a good strong voice.

 

I was put off by the baritone. A beautiful tone, but I have lived so long with a Wheatstone tenor/treble and now the Albion treble it suits my choices while singing. One wish I do have however is to obtain a good vintage treble with brass reeds for singing. I was allowed to take a friend's elderly brass reeded Wheatstone out for a spin and the fit with my voice was 'pert near perfect.

 

Have fun on your search!

[Paul Read]

Ian Robb sings with a Wheatstone Aeola tenor treble english concertina and uses the low end a lot. One of my favourite players with a heavily chorded style. He' be a good one to emulate.

 

He has used the double reeded Wheatstone on a couple of tracks.

[greenferry]

I own an Albion treble and sing with it all the time. ...

As an accordion reeded instrument, the Albion is all on or off while it is new. ...

I was put off by the baritone. A beautiful tone, but I have lived so long with a Wheatstone tenor/treble and now the Albion treble it suits my choices while singing.

 

 

Mark,

 

Thanks for your fast response! Well now you've got me thinking again. Treble or baritone? I like both of them! The Morse Albion has all sorts of great reviews, I haven't seen hardly a hesitant word at all.

 

The only thing I wonder about is the accordion reeds ... are the brass reeds dramatically more expensive, or is there a structural reason why they have the steel ones, anybody know?

 

My first thought was a Wheatstone, but I wonder what kind of Wheatstone I could get for $2,000? Has anybody ever bought a concertina off Ebay and been ripped off?

Edited November 29, 2005 by greenferry

[greenferry]

Ian Robb sings with a Wheatstone Aeola tenor treble english concertina and uses the low end a lot. One of my favourite players with a heavily chorded style. He' be a good one to emulate. He has used the double reeded Wheatstone on a couple of tracks.

 

 

Paul,

 

Thanks for filling me in on Ian Robb's Wheatstone -- if he's playing a tenor-treble, it sure does sound like a baritone at times; like you say, it must be because he is skillful at playing the low end a lot. If I can learn to play one-tenth as well as him I'd be happy as a lark. He's absolutely stunning!

 

I just checked out the Wheatstone website, and I guess $10,000 for an Aeola is a little out of range for me! Darn!

 

I wonder if an "old" Wheatstone (like 1930s or earlier) would have a sound quality similar to the modern ones? Does it cost a lot to get old ones refurbished (by our local Button Box, of course) with fresh reeds and bellows?

Edited November 29, 2005 by greenferry

[Mark Evans]

I don't want you to get off on the wrong foot. Brass reeds are considered less desirable by most players who want to play tunes. Their response is to me beautiful but muted in comparison with steel reeds which are the standard for players. I wouldn't worry about accordion verses concertina reeds. If the sound of the Morse or one of the other "hybrid" modern makes pleases you, then go with it. I love my Morse and have enjoyed the experience of owning a concertina that was brand new.

 

A Wheatstone for under $2000...I don't know (brass reeds I assume). Chris Algar at Barylcorn Concertinas could give you a very clear idea. He has a many instruments and backs what he sells.

 

Some here love the thrill of bidding on ebay, but people can get ripped off.

[greenferry]

A Wheatstone for under $2000 ...I Chris Algar at Barylcorn Concertinas could give you a very clear idea.

 

Thanks for the heads up, Mark. I just sent Chris an email asking for a list of his current concertinas. I also did a search on here and discovered the posts about Ebay scams. I appreciate your advice!

 

I really like the Morse Albion a whole lot for its beautiful design and lightness, and also because it's made by our local friends. I know many others have had very favorable comments on it. I just really want one *now*!!! I think the current wait is 8-12 weeks, and I'm dying to have a concertina of my own so I can get started!

[greenferry]

I just had another thought ... does anybody have experience with the Morse Albion ... how long does it take a new concertina to mellow out?

[Paul Read]

You'll wait a long time for a new Wheatstone. The ones from the early 1900s will sound as good as anything you will get (although it varies instrument to instrument). I think Ian's is from around 1912-1916 era.

 

Geting one off ebay and having it refurbished is a risky exercise if you don't know a lot about concertinas. Restoration can be expensive, usually including a full re-tune.

 

I think may find Chris A will have something to offer around 2,000.

[Chris Timson]

I just sent Chris an email asking for a list of his current concertinas.

In my experience, it'll be quicker to phone Chris. Better as well, since you can discuss your requirement with him, and he'll be able to suggest possibilities.

 

Chris

[brightfield]

Geting one off ebay and having it refurbished is a risky exercise if you don't know a lot about concertinas. Restoration can be expensive, usually including a full re-tune.

 

Yes, but sometimes it comes up gold. My Lachenal cost about £250 on ebay and I then spent a couple of hundred on restoration including tuning to concert pitch - result quite a nice little instrument at an excellent price. I know another member of this board who's built up a nice collection of 'tinas from ebay and boot sales. Its not easy but it can be done.

[Animaterra]

Welcome, Greenferry- it's delightful to find another singer in our midst! My voice is just about in the same range of yours, and I'm just getting adept enough at my anglo to feel comfortable using it to sing (I started out playing morris, then Irish airs, and just kept concentrating on melody).

 

However, I am blessed with a Jeffries (which I inherited), and there's no comparing it to anything else. However, I do find the lower range quite suitable to work with my voice, leaving the right hand for melody and a bit of counter-melody. Before it came, I had a little Marcus and was perfectly happy with it.

 

You call the Button Box "our local "- where are you? If it's local enough, by all means take a trip and sit in their sales room, playing with their stock. Doug and Becky and the gang are very helpful, and can show you where your fingers should go.

If you do, send me a personal message or email through this forum and if I can I would be delighted to come spend some time with you at the shop- it's a little over an hour's drive for me.

 

Besides, I really need to spend some time with the Morse baritone anglo and convince myself that no, I don't really need it, no, not at all!!!

[Mark Evans]

... does anybody have experience with the Morse Albion ... how long does it take a new concertina to mellow out?

 

I can speak to that. My Morse #209 was made in April 04'. An excellent instrument with beautiful finish in all areas. The bellows were stiff as one would expect and the reeds clear voiced. The action on the Albion from my point of view was the equal (if not a bit swifter) to my Wheatstone Aeola tenor/treble circa 1921.

 

In the beginning reeds can speak slowly at low pressure, however after 6 months that improved and has continued to do so. I realize it will never approach the reed response an excellent well maintained vintage Wheatstone has, but still stands as superior in my book.

 

I have not noticed a change in sound. Others have and they believe it to be a mellowing in tone. Perhaps I have calmed down a bit and am using more dynamic range as the bellows continue to break in.

 

The Button Box turns around an order in a blindingly fast amount of time. 8 to 12 weeks is nothing, but waiting will seem eternal. Supporting a local maker is a good thing. If you are close enough, take a trip out there. You might get a Morse in your hands to take a test drive. It is light and as problems with my hands come and go, the slight weight has been a blessing. I am very pleased with my choice and will never part with #209.

[bellowbelle]

Hi..just a quick note. I'm too tired to think very hard today!

 

After singing along with my Morse Albion English concertina for...at least a couple years so far, I've noticed that there's a difference from when I accompanied myself on (an Ovation) guitar.

 

My guitar supported my voice, and my voice was the boss. (It's been hinted to me from a 'friend' -- or two -- that my voice is weird, so, I don't know how much THAT figures in, here...)

 

With my concertina, my voice shares the space. It is not so bossy. At first, this left me not knowing how to give my concertina much of an equal share, but, I've been working on that!

 

With this in mind, I decided that it wouldn't really make a lot of difference for me if I played a baritone instead, or if I got a very soft, mellower-sounding concertina. We'll just keep sharing the space, I guess.

[Mark Evans]

With my concertina, my voice shares the space.

 

I really like that Wendy. Wise lady, tired or not.

[greenferry]

Hi..just a quick note. I'm too tired to think very hard today!

 

After singing along with my Morse Albion English concertina for...at least a couple years so far, I've noticed that there's a difference from when I accompanied myself on (an Ovation) guitar.

 

My guitar supported my voice, and my voice was the boss. (It's been hinted to me from a 'friend' -- or two -- that my voice is weird, so, I don't know how much THAT figures in, here...)

 

With my concertina, my voice shares the space. It is not so bossy. At first, this left me not knowing how to give my concertina much of an equal share, but, I've been working on that!

 

With this in mind, I decided that it wouldn't really make a lot of difference for me if I played a baritone instead, or if I got a very soft, mellower-sounding concertina. We'll just keep sharing the space, I guess.

 

 

Wendy,

 

Thanks for responding even though you were sleepy!

 

Interesting idea of "sharing the space" with a concertina!

 

I looked at your website and saw the ingenious 'tina box you crocheted, that's really nifty. I bet it took awhile to finish it.