Pitch, Upward Bound?

[Mark Evans]

Reading Stephens post on his newly aquired Aeola (concertina lust welling up within me) and my recent problems with the Recorded Links page got me thinking about the upward tendency of "standard" pitch.

 

My wife sings period Baroque music and the pitch will varry from 415 to 435 depending on the group and the composer presented (very cool that period performance business I think). Recently she had an engagment in Vienna where the Baroque ensemble performed at a whinning 448 which I understand is now considered "standard" there. She has also incountered close to that pitch with some German groups.

 

How long it will be before A=440 is just a memory for us all? Tuning a concertina up is not an inexpensive undertaking and I wonder how a vintage instrument might react to that. How much of the reed would be left for goodness sake?

Edited January 14, 2005 by Mark Evans

[d.elliott]

There are various articles on the 'old' pitches around, and I have seen examples of several different pitch settings. However by far the most common 'old 'pitch that I have seen in concertinas, is actually nearly half a semi-tone sharper than the common A=440 hz.

 

We end up flattening the reeds not sharpening them!

 

Dave

[Mark Evans]

Thank you for the reply Dave. I thought the "sharp" tuning was an option and not the general practice before 1900. Now I'm confused (which ain't nothin' new).

 

I assumed that the majority of concertinas produced before 1900 would have been tuned to the prevailing concert pitch of the day. Concertinists are a contrary lot...are we not.

 

P.S. Dave I just viewed your profile. Shape Note Singing....very, very cool.

Edited January 15, 2005 by Mark Evans

[Ken_Coles]

Thank you for the reply Dave.  I thought the "sharp" tuning was an option and not the general practice before 1900.  Now I'm confused (which ain't nothin' new).

 

I assumed that the majority of concertinas produced before 1900 would have been tuned to the prevailing concert pitch of the day.  Concertinists are a contrary lot...are we not.

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Apologies if you are already aware of this, but when I wonder about concertina pitch, I refer to Wes Williams's article, which is here.

[Stephen Chambers]

Thank you for the reply Dave.  I thought the "sharp" tuning was an option and not the general practice before 1900. ... I assumed that the majority of concertinas produced before 1900 would have been tuned to the prevailing concert pitch of the day. 

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Mark,

 

The general practice before 1900 (and even into the 1930's) was indeed to tune to "the prevailing concert pitch of the day" which was called Philharmonic Pitch (becoming "Old Philharmonic" after the introduction of "New Philharmonic" in 1896). It was "nearly half a semi-tone sharper than the common A=440 hz" (to quote Dave). However, it was not the only pitch in use in England, and by the end of the 19th century a tuner would have needed tuning forks in no less than four different pitches (I have antique cased sets of them) :

 

Old Philharmonic - A452

New Philharmonic - A439

Society of Arts - A445

Paris Opera (or Continental) - A435

 

I remember meeting an elderly concertina player in Manchester, more than 30 years ago, who had an Edeophone with high-pitch reeds made by Mr. Green, Lachenal's top tuner (Tommy Williams reckoned "Wheatstone's wanted him bad"), who, not wanting to spoil them and still needing to play at high pitch sometimes, had got replacement reed pans made with reeds to play at low pitch (New Philharmonic) when it became more prevalent. He kept the reed pans he wasn't using at the time in a mahogany box, custom made for the job by Lachenal's.

 

Judging by their Price Lists, Wheatstone's seem to have changed from a standard tuning in Old Philharmonic (C540) to New Philharmonic (C522) in the early 1930's, though other pitches were always available to order.

 

It was only in 1939 that an International Conference in London recommended the international use of A440.

 

Concertinists are a contrary lot...are we not.

Yes.

 

Edited for clarification.

Edited January 20, 2005 by Stephen Chambers

[Mark Evans]

Thank you Ken. I was unaware of Wes Williams very interesting article. Really enjoyed it. Must spend more time prowling something other than the forums, tune-o-tron, and the recording reviews on C.Net.

 

It seems concertinists rather than being contrary were at the mercy of an ever changing concert pitch standard. I knew it would be the fault of those cursed wind instrumentalists (no offense Jim).

 

A=440 as a uniform concert pitch not being established until 1939 was a shocker!

 

 

P.S. Just read your post Stephen. Thank you. This is very cool (my son is rolling his eyes as I type, and the words, "Get a grip" are forming...ah, he just decided to give me a well used gesture instead...Bravo!). I'm still dealing with concertina lust over your "new" instrument.

Edited January 16, 2005 by Mark Evans

[Stephen Chambers]

I'm still dealing with concertina lust over your "new" instrument.

She's sitting beside the computer, looking very beautiful, I'm not letting her out of my sight !

[Nanette Hooker]

There is an interesting article by Richard Evans from the "Concertina Magazine" 1985 Issue 12:

[Jim Besser]

If the 440 standard is abandoned, the phone company will have to change its dial tone to accomodate all the guitar players who use it as an emergency pitch pipe! (don't know if you folks in England and Ireland have the same convenient feature)

Edited January 16, 2005 by Jim Besser

[Stephen Chambers]

... other pitches were always available to order.

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And it seems that Wheatstone's were still tuning to Old Philharmonic (A452) to order, for the Salvation Army, as late as February 1961 judging by a newspaper article from that time :

 

"We make all their concertinas a quarter-tone sharp. All the Salvation Army brass instruments, you see, are tuned to the old pre-war high pitch, and if we didn't make the concertinas agree they'd have to scrap all their brass."

[Mark Evans]

Stephen,

 

The Salvation Army and the concertina is something I have been curious about. As a child I saw them playing in the street during the Christmas season, but there were no concertinas (States). I would have remembered them being a 10 year old concertinist living in Nothern Florida! Have seen pictures of Salvation Army ensembles playing all concertinas (from treble to bass, and from the image I remember seeing a duet), are there any recordings of their music original or recreated?

Edited January 18, 2005 by Mark Evans

[Stephen Chambers]

The Salvation Army and the concertina is something I have been curious about.  As a child I saw them playing in the street during the Christmas season, but there were no concertinas (States).  I would have remembered them being a 10 year old concertinist living in Nothern Florida!  Have seen pictures of Salvation Army ensembles playing all concertinas (from treble to bass, and from the image I remember seeing a duet), are there any recordings of their music original or recreated?

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Mark,

 

Then you should be intersted in this thread on C.net, and this page from the Concertina FAQ.

 

I only saw a Salvationist concertinist once, and that was marching up my old street, (Vicarage Road, Leyton) in East London, as part of a Salvation Army parade maybe twenty years ago. He appeared to be playing a large Aeola Maccann duet.

[Mark Evans]

Thank you Stephen.

 

I enjoyed both the thread and the page from Chris' site. Found myself very emotional seeing the Bristol band grow older in successive photographs.

 

Evangeline Cory Booth however is beautiful! The delicate hand with long fingers confidently drapped over her concertina and that face! What a character she must have been. Ya know, hangin' around this bunch a' squeezers, might just teach me a thing er' two.

Edited January 18, 2005 by Mark Evans